[EURO-Discuss] Draft agenda and planning for EURALO©-s 1st General Assembly in Paris
Roberto Gaetano
roberto at icann.org
Fri Apr 25 17:36:35 EDT 2008
Good evening.
Where can I find the minutes of the EURALO Board meetings so far?
Thanks,
Roberto
> -----Original Message-----
> From: euro-discuss-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org
> [mailto:euro-discuss-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org] On
> Behalf Of Adam Peake
> Sent: Friday, 25 April 2008 16:21
> To: Jeanette Hofmann; Nick Ashton-Hart;
> euro-discuss at atlarge-lists.icann.org
> Cc: Cheryl Langdon-Orr; kierenmccarthy at gmail.com; Vittorio
> Bertola; Veronica Cretu; At-Large Staff; Dr. Christoph Bruch
> Subject: Re: [EURO-Discuss] Draft agenda and planning for
> EURALO©–s 1st General Assembly in Paris
>
> At 3:54 PM +0100 4/24/08, Jeanette Hofmann wrote:
> >Nick Ashton-Hart wrote:
> >>Dear Jeanette:
> >>
> >>Thank you very much for your note.
> >>
> >>I understand this provision to mean that, as it says, ALAC members
> >>elected by the region should not have to go out of pocket
> to live up
> >>to their responsibilities. There are no statutory
> representatives to
> >>other ICANN bodies as you know.
> >
> >...and in your understanding the attending of face to face EURALO
> >meetings is not among the responsibilities of EURALO board meetings?
>
>
>
> Nick, this is a very ungenerous reading of the paragraph and
> of the section describing ICANN's responsibilities under the MoU.
>
> The board is of course essential to the EURALO's activities,
> it's the representative of the RALO members and responsible
> for all matters of the RALO. It makes little sense to invite
> members of the ALS and then not the board. Obviously any
> meetings the ALS hold will be less effective without the
> board present. The presence of the EURALO in its region's
> ICANN meeting will be weakened.
>
> As a community EURALO clearly needs time together and at the
> moment you are denying them the opportunity. All for the cost
> of a few inter-city train tickets and a few days expenses. It
> would only take a little imagination to make the resources
> available, *or at least to try*. I think it's the view that
> you don't seem to be trying that is most worrying.
>
> Vittorio's comments about other RALOs are not relevant. The
> board isn't a handful of individuals, they are people elected
> by the members, volunteers offering their time and effort to
> the At Large.
>
> Best,
>
> Adam
>
>
>
> >>
> >>I hope this is helpful.d
> >
> >I am not sure your interpretation of this provision is the
> most obvious one.
> >jeanette
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>On 24/04/2008 16:08, "Jeanette Hofmann" <jeanette at wzb.eu> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> Adam Peake asked me to ask once again how ICANN staff
> can deny travel
> >> support to elected EURALO board members in light of
> the following
> >> passage of the EURALO MoU (and he also asked me to cc
> Kieren to ensure
> >> that he is aware of our problems).
> >>
> >> Agreed Responsibilities of ICANN
> >> 4.4 Providing the necessary resources to help support
> EURALO activities
> >> subject to ICANN's annual operational and budgetary
> plans and processes,
> >> save always that the elected representatives of EURALO
> to the At-Large
> >> Advisory Committee and other main ICANN bodies shall
> always be eligible
> >> to receive reasonable travel and subsistence such that
> they are able to
> >> attend such meetings without EURALO, or the
> representatives of the same,
> >> incurring these costs"
> >>
> >> "How can they deny this", is what Adam asks.
> >> At least it is good to see that others outside of our
> little group share
> >> our interpretation of things.
> >>
> >> jeanette
> >>
> >> Nick Ashton-Hart wrote:
> >> > Dear Jeanette:
> >> >
> >> > Of course by all means involve other RALOs if you
> think it is
> >> helpful
> >> > I hope my previous note shed some light on a number
> of these issues
> >> > where there seems to be some misunderstandings.
> >> >
> >> > On that subject, there is a fairly fundamental
> misunderstanding in
> >> your
> >> > comment below: The basic unit of At-Large is the
> ALS, at least at the
> >> > present time. All RALOs have established their
> structures in this way,
> >> > including EURALO; ICANN¹s Bylaws have not changed
> in respect of the
> >> > definition of the community and in fact all the
> RALOs are specifically
> >> > empowered in the Bylaws of including individuals in
> the RALOs. The
> >> > reality is they did not decide to do that (with the
> exception of the
> >> > provisions that exist in RALO organising
> instruments largely only in
> >> > the NARALO).
> >> >
> >> > I hope this makes clear that nothing has changed
> from ICANN¹s
> >> side, and
> >> > that in fact, RALOs are free to choose to allow
> direct membership of
> >> > individuals and they have been since the At-Large
> community became a
> >> > part of the ICANN Bylaws years ago.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On 17/04/2008 15:46, "Jeanette Hofmann"
> <jeanette at wzb.eu> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Hi Bill,
> >> >
> >> > I very much share your thoughts and I wonder if
> this discussion
> >> > shouldn't be moved to the ALAC list as it
> concerns other RALOs
> >> as well.
> >> > ICANN apparently moved from a concept of At
> large membership for
> >> > individuals to one that only recognizes organizations. I
> >> wonder how many
> >> > people are actually aware of this and support this move.
> >> > jeanette
> >> >
> >> > William Drake wrote:
> >> > > Hi Nick,
> >> > >
> >> > > While this conversation has drifted off, I¹d
> like to share
> >> a couple of
> >> > > closing thoughts on your decision.
> >> > >
> >> > > If as you say it is a matter of clear policy that ³no
> >> region has an
> >> > > opportunity for non-ALS members to receive
> travel support
> >> to attend
> >> > > ICANN meetings,² one would think this could
> have been made
> >> clear
> >> > when we
> >> > > asked about it repeatedly months ago.
> Instead, as Jeanette
> >> noted, you
> >> > > gave the impression last August that it
> shouldn¹t be a
> >> problem. I
> >> > think
> >> > > most people would reasonably read ³One could
> imagine that the
> >> > invitation
> >> > > could be extended to allow those officers to
> attend as
> >> well² in that
> >> > > way. If there is a policy to the contrary,
> one could not
> >> have so
> >> > imagined.
> >> > >
> >> > > Subsequently, a number of times people
> raised the matter
> >> with you in
> >> > > ways that indicated we were therefore assuming the
> >> invitation could be
> >> > > extended, and you never corrected us. On the
> basis of this
> >> assumption,
> >> > > people have gone forward and put some time into
> >> participating (and
> >> > would
> >> > > have done much more if we¹d been energized
> by a F2F meeting in
> >> > Warsaw or
> >> > > Geneva) with an eye toward finally being
> able to convene in
> >> Paris and
> >> > > really boot things up from there. Now we
> find out that a
> >> chunk of the
> >> > > board is basically to be excluded, not just
> in Paris, but going
> >> > forward.
> >> > > Teleconferencing in is obviously no substitute for
> >> participating in a
> >> > > first F2F board meeting and a General Assembly,
> >> particularly if one
> >> > > wants to get more deeply involved in the
> work, get to know
> >> the ALS
> >> > > folks, etc.
> >> > >
> >> > > More generally, if non-ALS people
> essentially have no standing,
> >> > wouldn¹t
> >> > > the time to make that absolutely clear have
> been last May,
> >> before the
> >> > > region elected non-ALS people to the board?
> If it had
> >> been, when
> >> > I was
> >> > > approached about getting into this, as a
> non-ALS person I¹d
> >> obviously
> >> > > have said there¹s no point and would have
> saved a lot of
> >> time since
> >> > > then. And if the objective is to energize
> people to get
> >> engaged in
> >> > > ICANN work, one would think it right to let
> regions organize
> >> > themselves
> >> > > as they need to and elect who they want...
> >> > >
> >> > > Anyway, I guess it¹s been a revealing
> learning process. I of
> >> > course will
> >> > > not stand for re-election but wish the next
> board all the best.
> >> > >
> >> > > Cheers,
> >> > >
> >> > > Bill
> >> > >
> >> > > On 4/14/08 6:20 PM, "Nick Ashton-Hart"
> >> > <Nick.Ashton-Hart at icann.org> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > Sorry if I was unclear that isn¹t
> quite what I meant
> >> and my
> >> > > apologies if what I said led to confusion.
> >> > >
> >> > > Basically, no region has an opportunity
> for non-ALS
> >> members to
> >> > > receive travel support to attend ICANN meetings.
> >> Therefore, if
> >> > > EURALO is allowed to send non-ALS
> representatives to an
> >> ICANN
> >> > > meeting and other regions are not, those
> other regions
> >> receive
> >> > > unequal (lesser) treatment to EURALO.
> >> > >
> >> > > The Secretariats have previously
> discussed in principle the
> >> > idea of
> >> > > establishing differential rules by
> region related to travel
> >> > support.
> >> > > The community has not however explored
> this idea and of
> >> course any
> >> > > proposal would need to be equitable
> across regions, and
> >> also
> >> > within
> >> > > regions.
> >> > >
> >> > > On 14/04/2008 17:55, "William Drake"
> >> > > <william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > Hi Nick,
> >> > >
> >> > > Thanks for this reply, but I still need help
> >> understanding the
> >> > > nature of the inequity you see.
> Your argument is
> >> that the
> >> > > boards of other regions would
> consider that ³it
> >> would unfairly
> >> > > prejudice² them if the full European
> board were funded,
> >> > just as
> >> > > they are? They demand that only
> some of our board
> >> participate
> >> > > in our board meeting and GA?
> >> > >
> >> > > Bill
> >> > >
> >> > > On 4/14/08 5:28 PM, "Nick Ashton-Hart"
> >> > > <Nick.Ashton-Hart at icann.org> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > Actually nothing has changed. As
> you will note
> >> from the
> >> > > email below, sent more than 7
> months ago, you
> >> will notice
> >> > > that the statement I made did
> not say that the
> >> extension
> >> > > would be provided, only that it
> was possible.
> >> I¹m sure
> >> > that
> >> > > you all understand that we do need to be
> >> equitable to all
> >> > > regions.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > On 14/04/2008 17:17, "Jeanette Hofmann"
> >> > <jeanette at wzb.eu> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > Hi Nick,
> >> > >
> >> > > last year, 15.08.2007 16:22
> >> > > you sent the following mail
> below to the
> >> euro-discuss
> >> > > list. It would be
> >> > > great if you could you let
> us know what has
> >> changed in
> >> > > the meantime. I
> >> > > hope you get better soon.
> >> > > best, jeanette
> >> > >
> >> > > Re: [EURO-Discuss] Funding
> Request and Draft
> >> > Agenda for
> >> > > EURALO Board meeting
> >> > >
> >> > > ALS' are invited to send a single
> >> representative to
> >> > > ICANN meetings when the
> >> > > region that they are in is
> provided travel
> >> support.
> >> > >
> >> > > At this point Europe is the
> only region
> >> which has
> >> > > regional officers who are
> >> > > not also ALS
> representatives. One could imagine
> >> > that the
> >> > > invitation could be
> >> > > extended to allow those
> officers to attend
> >> as well.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > On 15/8/07 14:45, "Jeanette Hofmann"
> >> <jeanette at wzb.eu>
> >> > > wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > > > Hi Nick, from what I
> understand only
> >> ALS get
> >> > > financial support for
> >> > > > > attending ICANN
> meetings. Is that correct?
> >> > > > > This would mean that
> several board
> >> members would
> >> > > either not attend
> >> > > > > regional meetings or
> pay for themselves.
> >> > > > > jeanette
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Nick Ashton-Hart wrote:
> >> > > > My apologies for taking a
> few days to
> >> respond
> >> > to this
> >> > > email. I¹ve been a
> >> > > > bit under the weather
> (unwell). I¹ve
> >> taken the
> >> > liberty
> >> > > of copying in
> >> > > > Cheryl Langdon-Orr (ALAC
> chair) and the
> >> three ALAC
> >> > > representatives from
> >> > > > EURALO given the
> importance of the email to
> >> > planning
> >> > > overall...
> >> > > >
> >> > > > On the first point, as
> those of you who have
> >> > attended
> >> > > many ICANN
> >> > > > meetings will know, it is
> pretty much
> >> impossible to
> >> > > ensure that all
> >> > > > scheduling conflicts can
> be avoided in
> >> > connection with
> >> > > an ICANN meeting.
> >> > > > The Paris meeting is even more
> >> challenging, as
> >> > it is
> >> > > one day shorter
> >> > > > than the usual meeting
> since it ends on the
> >> > Thursday
> >> > > instead of Friday.
> >> > > > Having a EURALO meeting on Sunday
> >> wouldn¹t work
> >> > as the
> >> > > ALAC are meeting
> >> > > > that day and on that day ALAC is
> >> meeting with the
> >> > > GAC at lunch, and
> >> > > > the GNSO for breakfast
> (and members of
> >> EURALO would
> >> > > wish to attend these
> >> > > > meetings I suspect).
> Saturday was chosen
> >> only after
> >> > > careful review of
> >> > > > all options. You should
> know that there
> >> are always
> >> > > issues of the kind
> >> > > > you mention with RALO GA
> planning so
> >> EURALO is far
> >> > > from the first to
> >> > > > experience issues with
> scheduling. In
> >> fact, I
> >> > believe
> >> > > that the last
> >> > > > EURALO GA was split over
> three days due to
> >> > scheduling
> >> > > problems.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > With respect to travel
> support, the
> >> situation
> >> > is that
> >> > > each ALS will be
> >> > > > invited to send one
> representative with
> >> travel
> >> > support
> >> > > provided by
> >> > > > ICANN. Since no other region has
> >> received travel
> >> > > support on any other
> >> > > > basis, it would unfairly
> prejudice the
> >> others
> >> > to treat
> >> > > EURALO
> >> > > > differently and provide
> more travel
> >> support for one
> >> > > region over any
> >> > > > other. I can tell you
> that ensuring that
> >> telephonic
> >> > > remote participation
> >> > > > that works well is a
> priority at the
> >> Paris ICANN
> >> > > meeting as internally
> >> > > > the discussions about how
> this has not
> >> worked well
> >> > > previously have been
> >> > > > taken to a higher level than was
> >> previously the
> >> > case.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > I hope this answers your
> questions even
> >> if it
> >> > is not
> >> > > the answer that you
> >> > > > might wish to receive.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > On 12/04/2008 18:34,
> "William Drake"
> >> > > >
> <william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch> wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > It sounds like it
> would have been
> >> good to check
> >> > > with people on
> >> > > > scheduling
> >> > > > before fixing a date.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Nick, could we please
> get definitive
> >> > clarification
> >> > > of the funding issue
> >> > > > raised today by Vittorio and
> >> Jeanette, and
> >> > > previously by Wolf, Karen,
> >> > > > Annette, myself, maybe others?
> >> Somehow I'd
> >> > > thought it was resolved that
> >> > > > there's no problem,
> but looking
> >> through my
> >> > saved
> >> > > Euralo message folder I
> >> > > > can't find a message
> that's actually
> >> from
> >> > you to
> >> > > that effect.
> >> > > > People need
> >> > > > to know whether and
> how to plan...
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Thanks
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Bill
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > On 4/12/08 6:02 PM,
> "Vittorio Bertola"
> >> > > <vb at bertola.eu> wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > > Wolf Ludwig ha scritto:
> >> > > > > > To the members of
> the EURALO board:
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Dear all
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > According to our
> by-laws, we are
> >> > supposed to
> >> > > have our first GA this
> >> > > > > > year and the coming 32nd
> >> International
> >> > Public
> >> > > Meeting of ICANN in
> >> > > > > > Paris (from 22 to
> 26 June 08)
> >> offers an
> >> > almost
> >> > > perfect opportunity
> >> > > > > > for that. After a
> short discussion I
> >> > had with
> >> > > Nick he already
> >> > > > > > reserved
> Saturday, 21 June 08,
> >> all day
> >> > for us.
> >> > > Thanks Nick!
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > I still don't know
> whether I'll get
> >> > funding for
> >> > > Paris, but in any
> >> > > > case I
> >> > > > > won't be able to
> get to Paris
> >> before the
> >> > > morning of the 22nd.
> >> > > > > Ciao,
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > --
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Regards,
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Nick Ashton-Hart
> >> > > > Director for At-Large
> >> > > > Internet Corporation for
> Assigned Names
> >> and Numbers
> >> > > (ICANN)
> >> > > > Main Tel: +33 (450) 40 46 88
> >> > > > USA Tel: +1 (202) 657-5460
> >> > > > Fax: +41 (22) 594-85-44
> >> > > > Mobile: +41 (79) 595 54-68
> >> > > > email: nick.ashton-hart at icann.org
> >> > > > Win IM:
> ashtonhart at hotmail.com / AIM/iSight:
> >> > > nashtonhart at mac.com /
> >> > > > Skype: nashtonhart
> >> > > > Online Bio:
> >> https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashtonhart
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >>
> ***********************************************************
> >> > > William J. Drake
> >> > > Director, Project on the Information
> >> > > Revolution and Global Governance/PSIO
> >> > > Graduate Institute of International and
> >> > > Development Studies
> >> > > Geneva, Switzerland
> >> > > william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch
> >> > >
> >>
> ***********************************************************
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> ***********************************************************
> >> > > William J. Drake
> >> > > Director, Project on the Information
> >> > > Revolution and Global Governance/PSIO
> >> > > Graduate Institute of International and
> >> > > Development Studies
> >> > > Geneva, Switzerland
> >> > > william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch
> >> > >
> ***********************************************************
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> >
> >> > Nick Ashton-Hart
> >> > Director for At-Large
> >> > Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)
> >> > Main Tel: +33 (450) 40 46 88
> >> > USA Tel: +1 (202) 657-5460
> >> > Fax: +41 (22) 594-85-44
> >> > Mobile: +41 (79) 595 54-68
> >> > email: nick.ashton-hart at icann.org
> >> > Win IM: ashtonhart at hotmail.com / AIM/iSight:
> nashtonhart at mac.com /
> >> > Skype: nashtonhart
> >> > Online Bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashtonhart
> >>
> >>
> >>--
> >>
> >>Regards,
> >>
> >>Nick Ashton-Hart
> >>Director for At-Large
> >>Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)
> Main Tel:
> >>+33 (450) 40 46 88 USA Tel: +1 (202) 657-5460
> >>Fax: +41 (22) 594-85-44
> >>Mobile: +41 (79) 595 54-68
> >>email: nick.ashton-hart at icann.org
> >>Win IM: ashtonhart at hotmail.com / AIM/iSight:
> >>nashtonhart at mac.com / Skype: nashtonhart Online Bio:
> >>https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashtonhart
>
>
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