[EURO-Discuss] Draft agenda and planning for EURALO©–s 1st General Assembly in Paris
Adam Peake
ajp at glocom.ac.jp
Fri Apr 25 10:20:53 EDT 2008
At 3:54 PM +0100 4/24/08, Jeanette Hofmann wrote:
>Nick Ashton-Hart wrote:
>>Dear Jeanette:
>>
>>Thank you very much for your note.
>>
>>I understand this provision to mean that, as it
>>says, ALAC members elected by the region should
>>not have to go out of pocket to live up to
>>their responsibilities. There are no statutory
>>representatives to other ICANN bodies as you
>>know.
>
>...and in your understanding the attending of
>face to face EURALO meetings is not among the
>responsibilities of EURALO board meetings?
Nick, this is a very ungenerous reading of the
paragraph and of the section describing ICANN's
responsibilities under the MoU.
The board is of course essential to the EURALO's
activities, it's the representative of the RALO
members and responsible for all matters of the
RALO. It makes little sense to invite members of
the ALS and then not the board. Obviously any
meetings the ALS hold will be less effective
without the board present. The presence of the
EURALO in its region's ICANN meeting will be
weakened.
As a community EURALO clearly needs time together
and at the moment you are denying them the
opportunity. All for the cost of a few inter-city
train tickets and a few days expenses. It would
only take a little imagination to make the
resources available, *or at least to try*. I
think it's the view that you don't seem to be
trying that is most worrying.
Vittorio's comments about other RALOs are not
relevant. The board isn't a handful of
individuals, they are people elected by the
members, volunteers offering their time and
effort to the At Large.
Best,
Adam
>>
>>I hope this is helpful.d
>
>I am not sure your interpretation of this provision is the most obvious one.
>jeanette
>
>>
>>
>>On 24/04/2008 16:08, "Jeanette Hofmann" <jeanette at wzb.eu> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Adam Peake asked me to ask once again how ICANN staff can deny travel
>> support to elected EURALO board members in light of the following
>> passage of the EURALO MoU (and he also asked me to cc Kieren to ensure
>> that he is aware of our problems).
>>
>> Agreed Responsibilities of ICANN
>> 4.4 Providing the necessary resources to help support EURALO activities
>> subject to ICANN's annual operational and budgetary plans and processes,
>> save always that the elected representatives of EURALO to the At-Large
>> Advisory Committee and other main ICANN bodies shall always be eligible
>> to receive reasonable travel and subsistence such that they are able to
>> attend such meetings without EURALO, or the representatives of the same,
>> incurring these costs"
>>
>> "How can they deny this", is what Adam asks.
>> At least it is good to see that others outside of our little group share
>> our interpretation of things.
>>
>> jeanette
>>
>> Nick Ashton-Hart wrote:
>> > Dear Jeanette:
>> >
>> > Of course by all means involve other RALOs if you think it is
>> helpful
>> > I hope my previous note shed some light on a number of these issues
>> > where there seems to be some misunderstandings.
>> >
>> > On that subject, there is a fairly fundamental misunderstanding in
>> your
>> > comment below: The basic unit of At-Large is the ALS, at least at the
>> > present time. All RALOs have established their structures in this way,
>> > including EURALO; ICANN¹s Bylaws have not changed in respect of the
>> > definition of the community and in fact all the RALOs are specifically
>> > empowered in the Bylaws of including individuals in the RALOs. The
>> > reality is they did not decide to do that (with the exception of the
>> > provisions that exist in RALO organising instruments largely only in
>> > the NARALO).
>> >
>> > I hope this makes clear that nothing has changed from ICANN¹s
>> side, and
>> > that in fact, RALOs are free to choose to allow direct membership of
>> > individuals and they have been since the At-Large community became a
>> > part of the ICANN Bylaws years ago.
>> >
>> >
>> > On 17/04/2008 15:46, "Jeanette Hofmann" <jeanette at wzb.eu> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi Bill,
>> >
>> > I very much share your thoughts and I wonder if this discussion
>> > shouldn't be moved to the ALAC list as it concerns other RALOs
>> as well.
>> > ICANN apparently moved from a concept of At large membership for
>> > individuals to one that only recognizes organizations. I
>> wonder how many
>> > people are actually aware of this and support this move.
>> > jeanette
>> >
>> > William Drake wrote:
>> > > Hi Nick,
>> > >
>> > > While this conversation has drifted off, I¹d like to share
>> a couple of
>> > > closing thoughts on your decision.
>> > >
>> > > If as you say it is a matter of clear policy that ³no
>> region has an
>> > > opportunity for non-ALS members to receive travel support
>> to attend
>> > > ICANN meetings,² one would think this could have been made
>> clear
>> > when we
>> > > asked about it repeatedly months ago. Instead, as Jeanette
>> noted, you
>> > > gave the impression last August that it shouldn¹t be a
>> problem. I
>> > think
>> > > most people would reasonably read ³One could imagine that the
>> > invitation
>> > > could be extended to allow those officers to attend as
>> well² in that
>> > > way. If there is a policy to the contrary, one could not
>> have so
>> > imagined.
>> > >
>> > > Subsequently, a number of times people raised the matter
>> with you in
>> > > ways that indicated we were therefore assuming the
>> invitation could be
>> > > extended, and you never corrected us. On the basis of this
>> assumption,
>> > > people have gone forward and put some time into
>> participating (and
>> > would
>> > > have done much more if we¹d been energized by a F2F meeting in
>> > Warsaw or
>> > > Geneva) with an eye toward finally being able to convene in
>> Paris and
>> > > really boot things up from there. Now we find out that a
>> chunk of the
>> > > board is basically to be excluded, not just in Paris, but going
>> > forward.
>> > > Teleconferencing in is obviously no substitute for
>> participating in a
>> > > first F2F board meeting and a General Assembly,
>> particularly if one
>> > > wants to get more deeply involved in the work, get to know
>> the ALS
>> > > folks, etc.
>> > >
>> > > More generally, if non-ALS people essentially have no standing,
>> > wouldn¹t
>> > > the time to make that absolutely clear have been last May,
>> before the
>> > > region elected non-ALS people to the board? If it had
>> been, when
>> > I was
>> > > approached about getting into this, as a non-ALS person I¹d
>> obviously
>> > > have said there¹s no point and would have saved a lot of
>> time since
>> > > then. And if the objective is to energize people to get
>> engaged in
>> > > ICANN work, one would think it right to let regions organize
>> > themselves
>> > > as they need to and elect who they want...
>> > >
>> > > Anyway, I guess it¹s been a revealing learning process. I of
>> > course will
>> > > not stand for re-election but wish the next board all the best.
>> > >
>> > > Cheers,
>> > >
>> > > Bill
>> > >
>> > > On 4/14/08 6:20 PM, "Nick Ashton-Hart"
>> > <Nick.Ashton-Hart at icann.org> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Sorry if I was unclear that isn¹t quite what I meant
>> and my
>> > > apologies if what I said led to confusion.
>> > >
>> > > Basically, no region has an opportunity for non-ALS
>> members to
>> > > receive travel support to attend ICANN meetings.
>> Therefore, if
>> > > EURALO is allowed to send non-ALS representatives to an
>> ICANN
>> > > meeting and other regions are not, those other regions
>> receive
>> > > unequal (lesser) treatment to EURALO.
>> > >
>> > > The Secretariats have previously discussed in principle the
>> > idea of
>> > > establishing differential rules by region related to travel
>> > support.
>> > > The community has not however explored this idea and of
>> course any
>> > > proposal would need to be equitable across regions, and
>> also
>> > within
>> > > regions.
>> > >
>> > > On 14/04/2008 17:55, "William Drake"
>> > > <william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Hi Nick,
>> > >
>> > > Thanks for this reply, but I still need help
>> understanding the
>> > > nature of the inequity you see. Your argument is
>> that the
>> > > boards of other regions would consider that ³it
>> would unfairly
>> > > prejudice² them if the full European board were funded,
>> > just as
>> > > they are? They demand that only some of our board
>> participate
>> > > in our board meeting and GA?
>> > >
>> > > Bill
>> > >
>> > > On 4/14/08 5:28 PM, "Nick Ashton-Hart"
>> > > <Nick.Ashton-Hart at icann.org> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Actually nothing has changed. As you will note
>> from the
>> > > email below, sent more than 7 months ago, you
>> will notice
>> > > that the statement I made did not say that the
>> extension
>> > > would be provided, only that it was possible.
>> I¹m sure
>> > that
>> > > you all understand that we do need to be
>> equitable to all
>> > > regions.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On 14/04/2008 17:17, "Jeanette Hofmann"
>> > <jeanette at wzb.eu> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Hi Nick,
>> > >
>> > > last year, 15.08.2007 16:22
>> > > you sent the following mail below to the
>> euro-discuss
>> > > list. It would be
>> > > great if you could you let us know what has
>> changed in
>> > > the meantime. I
>> > > hope you get better soon.
>> > > best, jeanette
>> > >
>> > > Re: [EURO-Discuss] Funding Request and Draft
>> > Agenda for
>> > > EURALO Board meeting
>> > >
>> > > ALS' are invited to send a single
>> representative to
>> > > ICANN meetings when the
>> > > region that they are in is provided travel
>> support.
>> > >
>> > > At this point Europe is the only region
>> which has
>> > > regional officers who are
>> > > not also ALS representatives. One could imagine
>> > that the
>> > > invitation could be
>> > > extended to allow those officers to attend
>> as well.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On 15/8/07 14:45, "Jeanette Hofmann"
>> <jeanette at wzb.eu>
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > > Hi Nick, from what I understand only
>> ALS get
>> > > financial support for
>> > > > > attending ICANN meetings. Is that correct?
>> > > > > This would mean that several board
>> members would
>> > > either not attend
>> > > > > regional meetings or pay for themselves.
>> > > > > jeanette
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > >
>> > > Nick Ashton-Hart wrote:
>> > > > My apologies for taking a few days to
>> respond
>> > to this
>> > > email. I¹ve been a
>> > > > bit under the weather (unwell). I¹ve
>> taken the
>> > liberty
>> > > of copying in
>> > > > Cheryl Langdon-Orr (ALAC chair) and the
>> three ALAC
>> > > representatives from
>> > > > EURALO given the importance of the email to
>> > planning
>> > > overall...
>> > > >
>> > > > On the first point, as those of you who have
>> > attended
>> > > many ICANN
>> > > > meetings will know, it is pretty much
>> impossible to
>> > > ensure that all
>> > > > scheduling conflicts can be avoided in
>> > connection with
>> > > an ICANN meeting.
>> > > > The Paris meeting is even more
>> challenging, as
>> > it is
>> > > one day shorter
>> > > > than the usual meeting since it ends on the
>> > Thursday
>> > > instead of Friday.
>> > > > Having a EURALO meeting on Sunday
>> wouldn¹t work
>> > as the
>> > > ALAC are meeting
>> > > > that day and on that day ALAC is
>> meeting with the
>> > > GAC at lunch, and
>> > > > the GNSO for breakfast (and members of
>> EURALO would
>> > > wish to attend these
>> > > > meetings I suspect). Saturday was chosen
>> only after
>> > > careful review of
>> > > > all options. You should know that there
>> are always
>> > > issues of the kind
>> > > > you mention with RALO GA planning so
>> EURALO is far
>> > > from the first to
>> > > > experience issues with scheduling. In
>> fact, I
>> > believe
>> > > that the last
>> > > > EURALO GA was split over three days due to
>> > scheduling
>> > > problems.
>> > > >
>> > > > With respect to travel support, the
>> situation
>> > is that
>> > > each ALS will be
>> > > > invited to send one representative with
>> travel
>> > support
>> > > provided by
>> > > > ICANN. Since no other region has
>> received travel
>> > > support on any other
>> > > > basis, it would unfairly prejudice the
>> others
>> > to treat
>> > > EURALO
>> > > > differently and provide more travel
>> support for one
>> > > region over any
>> > > > other. I can tell you that ensuring that
>> telephonic
>> > > remote participation
>> > > > that works well is a priority at the
>> Paris ICANN
>> > > meeting as internally
>> > > > the discussions about how this has not
>> worked well
>> > > previously have been
>> > > > taken to a higher level than was
>> previously the
>> > case.
>> > > >
>> > > > I hope this answers your questions even
>> if it
>> > is not
>> > > the answer that you
>> > > > might wish to receive.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > On 12/04/2008 18:34, "William Drake"
>> > > > <william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > It sounds like it would have been
>> good to check
>> > > with people on
>> > > > scheduling
>> > > > before fixing a date.
>> > > >
>> > > > Nick, could we please get definitive
>> > clarification
>> > > of the funding issue
>> > > > raised today by Vittorio and
>> Jeanette, and
>> > > previously by Wolf, Karen,
>> > > > Annette, myself, maybe others?
>> Somehow I'd
>> > > thought it was resolved that
>> > > > there's no problem, but looking
>> through my
>> > saved
>> > > Euralo message folder I
>> > > > can't find a message that's actually
>> from
>> > you to
>> > > that effect.
>> > > > People need
>> > > > to know whether and how to plan...
>> > > >
>> > > > Thanks
>> > > >
>> > > > Bill
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > On 4/12/08 6:02 PM, "Vittorio Bertola"
>> > > <vb at bertola.eu> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > Wolf Ludwig ha scritto:
>> > > > > > To the members of the EURALO board:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Dear all
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > According to our by-laws, we are
>> > supposed to
>> > > have our first GA this
>> > > > > > year and the coming 32nd
>> International
>> > Public
>> > > Meeting of ICANN in
>> > > > > > Paris (from 22 to 26 June 08)
>> offers an
>> > almost
>> > > perfect opportunity
>> > > > > > for that. After a short discussion I
>> > had with
>> > > Nick he already
>> > > > > > reserved Saturday, 21 June 08,
>> all day
>> > for us.
>> > > Thanks Nick!
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I still don't know whether I'll get
>> > funding for
>> > > Paris, but in any
>> > > > case I
>> > > > > won't be able to get to Paris
>> before the
>> > > morning of the 22nd.
>> > > > > Ciao,
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > --
>> > > >
>> > > > Regards,
>> > > >
>> > > > Nick Ashton-Hart
>> > > > Director for At-Large
>> > > > Internet Corporation for Assigned Names
>> and Numbers
>> > > (ICANN)
>> > > > Main Tel: +33 (450) 40 46 88
>> > > > USA Tel: +1 (202) 657-5460
>> > > > Fax: +41 (22) 594-85-44
>> > > > Mobile: +41 (79) 595 54-68
>> > > > email: nick.ashton-hart at icann.org
>> > > > Win IM: ashtonhart at hotmail.com / AIM/iSight:
>> > > nashtonhart at mac.com /
>> > > > Skype: nashtonhart
>> > > > Online Bio:
>> https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashtonhart
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> ***********************************************************
>> > > William J. Drake
>> > > Director, Project on the Information
>> > > Revolution and Global Governance/PSIO
>> > > Graduate Institute of International and
>> > > Development Studies
>> > > Geneva, Switzerland
>> > > william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch
>> > >
>> ***********************************************************
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ***********************************************************
>> > > William J. Drake
>> > > Director, Project on the Information
>> > > Revolution and Global Governance/PSIO
>> > > Graduate Institute of International and
>> > > Development Studies
>> > > Geneva, Switzerland
>> > > william.drake at graduateinstitute.ch
>> > > ***********************************************************
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > Nick Ashton-Hart
>> > Director for At-Large
>> > Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)
>> > Main Tel: +33 (450) 40 46 88
>> > USA Tel: +1 (202) 657-5460
>> > Fax: +41 (22) 594-85-44
>> > Mobile: +41 (79) 595 54-68
>> > email: nick.ashton-hart at icann.org
>> > Win IM: ashtonhart at hotmail.com / AIM/iSight: nashtonhart at mac.com /
>> > Skype: nashtonhart
>> > Online Bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashtonhart
>>
>>
>>--
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Nick Ashton-Hart
>>Director for At-Large
>>Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)
>>Main Tel: +33 (450) 40 46 88
>>USA Tel: +1 (202) 657-5460
>>Fax: +41 (22) 594-85-44
>>Mobile: +41 (79) 595 54-68
>>email: nick.ashton-hart at icann.org
>>Win IM: ashtonhart at hotmail.com / AIM/iSight:
>>nashtonhart at mac.com / Skype: nashtonhart
>>Online Bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashtonhart
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