[ALAC] [ALAC-Announce] VOTE ANNOUNCEMENT: ALS Application (307) Internet Society Rural Development Special Interest Group

Wed Sep 18 17:13:49 UTC 2019

Thanks Glenn.

Yes, several global organizations, including IEEE, have structures similar
to ISOC's SIGs, and are usually structured around a thematic area. However,
in most cases, these are light-weight structures that are not registered,
and geographically spread out.

We had another case where an ISOC SIG approached us for membership, but we
did not proceed with the application because (a) they were not registered
anywhere; and (b) they could not establish that a majority of their members
were from our region.

In this case, however, both these criteria have been fulfilled, which is
why we recommended admitting them.

With kind regards,

satish

On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 10:12 PM Glenn McKnight <mcknight.glenn at gmail.com>
wrote:

> I think Satish can add his views on my comments as well.  Many of the IEEE
> Sections are potential ALS's  which are geographically based but they also
> have something called  SIGHT ( Special Interest Group on Humanitarian
> Technologies) ie. Blockchain, IOT etc which are similar to the  SIG  in
> ATLARGE which have very large membership but its a Community of Interest in
> a specific area of interest. I wouldn't be surprised if the  Rural
> Development SIG has a very large number of IEEE members .
> g
> Glenn McKnight
> NARALO Secretariat
> mcknight.glenn at gmail.com
> http://toronto.ieee.ca/
> IEEE Toronto SIGHT Chair
> glenn.mcknight at ieee.org
> skype  gmcknight
> twitter gmcknight
> 289-830 6259
> .
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 10:41 AM Maureen Hilyard <
> maureen.hilyard at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Does this not highlight that we need to look further into our
>> registration process when looking at organisations, particularly those from
>> developing countries, who might form themselves to include  individuals
>> from outside of the traditional At-Large regions for reasons that are
>> relevant to their group?
>>
>> This particular group has 200 members of which 34 are members from
>> outside of the region and in their application, this has been specifically
>> stated. It shows that the group is regionally bound by the majority of its
>> members and its title - rural development - perhaps suggests why people
>> from other regions and who may share similar concerns that bind the group,
>> may be part of it.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 12:00 AM Bartlett Morgan <
>> bartlett.morgan at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Thought exercise: the UN shows up at our door tomorrow and wants to be
>>> an ALS. Which region would we stick them in?
>>>
>>> Re the SIG, which is it, is it a global-reach organization or isn’t it?
>>>
>>> It’s a “No” for me.
>>>
>>> -
>>> Bart
>>> Sent from my mobile
>>>
>>> > On 18 Sep 2019, at 03:20, Bastiaan Goslings <
>>> bastiaan.goslings at ams-ix.net> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Hi all,
>>> >
>>> > I tend to agree with Olivier and others, and as it stands I therefore
>>> am inclined to vote ’no’.
>>> >
>>> > (And I appreciate statements like ‘If we get active participants out
>>> of this ALS we should count ourselves lucky. That is the whole point of our
>>> ALS recruitment process’ But in this context I find that not a convincing
>>> argument, and I do not think the EURALO/LACRALO ‘BIKLAB’ case is comparable
>>> to the ISOC Rural Development SIG application we’re discussing now)
>>> >
>>> > I do not know how the SIG that is applying to be an ALS is explicitly
>>> and ex ante ’organised so that participation by individual Internet users
>>> who are citizens or residents of countries within the Geographic Region in
>>> which the ALS is based will predominate in the ALS' operation.’ But to me
>>> that contradicts with the purpose of an ISOC SIG: according to the ISOC
>>> page that Olivier referred to ‘a SIG is a non-geographical independent
>>> entity’ and  ‘SIGs have a global scope’. I seriously doubt a ISOC SIG is
>>> allowed to be ‘organised’ in such a way that the interests of a particular
>>> ‘geographic region will predominate’ its ‘operation’.
>>> >
>>> > While it of course is not our responsibility to see to it that, in
>>> this case, a SIG complies with ISOC’s rules, I do wonder why we want to
>>> bend our rules, change them, to support this SIG becoming an ALS, also
>>> because ‘SIGs (…) have Individual Members of the Internet Society who are
>>> also members of a geographical Chapter.’ The obvious way of becoming part
>>> At-Large would then be to have the relevant Chapter(s) apply to be an ALS.
>>> Assuming that’s not already the case. Being a member of At-Large as an
>>> individual is an option too.
>>> >
>>> > thanks, regards
>>> > Bastiaan
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> On 18 Sep 2019, at 07:05, Satish Babu via ALAC <
>>> alac at atlarge-lists.icann.org> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Hi Seun,
>>> >>
>>> >> Thanks for your query.
>>> >>
>>> >> We have assumed that the organization will have most of its
>>> activities in the region where the majority of its members reside,  which
>>> is Asia-Pacific (South Asia in particular).
>>> >>
>>> >> With kind regards,
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> satish
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 10:28 AM Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >> Hello Satish,
>>> >>
>>> >> Based on the section you've quoted, I will like to ask whether the
>>> scope of operation of the SIG is exclusively within the APRALO region? If
>>> that is the case then I will be fine with this.
>>> >>
>>> >> Regards
>>> >> Sent from my mobile
>>> >> Kindly excuse brevity and typos
>>> >>
>>> >> On Wed, 18 Sep 2019, 03:27 Satish Babu via ALAC, <
>>> alac at atlarge-lists.icann.org> wrote:
>>> >> Dear Olivier,
>>> >>
>>> >> Thanks for raising this point. During the due diligence process, we
>>> had discussed precisely this point in the APRALO list, and had asked Staff
>>> to re-verify the geographical aspect.
>>> >>
>>> >> The responses we received from the applicant through Staff were as
>>> follows:
>>> >>
>>> >> a. The applicant is registered as a not-for-profit in India
>>> >>
>>> >> b. All office bearers of the organization are based in Asia-Pacific,
>>> as are apparently majority of the members.
>>> >>
>>> >> c. We considered the following section from ICANN's bylaws:
>>> >>
>>> >> (B) who are citizens or residents of countries within the Geographic
>>> Region of the RALO will predominate in the  operation of each At-Large
>>> Structure within the RALO, while not necessarily excluding additional
>>> participation, compatible with the interests of the individual Internet
>>> users within the region, by others.
>>> >>
>>> >> d. On this basis, we have proceeded to recommend admission  of this
>>> applicant to ALAC.
>>> >> Of course, we have not independently verified the information they
>>> have provided, but have taken it on trust.
>>> >>
>>> >> I also note that we have put on hold an application for membership
>>> from another ISOC SIG, because they could not confirm if they had met the
>>> above criterion.
>>> >>
>>> >> I hope this helps.
>>> >>
>>> >> With kind regards,
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> satish
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 6:44 AM Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond <
>>> ocl at gih.com> wrote:
>>> >> Dear Maureen,
>>> >>
>>> >> I am very surprised to see this having reached the ALAC with a
>>> recommendation from APRALO that this should be accepted. This should have
>>> been picked up at Due Diligence: Internet Society Special Interest Groups
>>> are global as per the explanation on
>>> https://www.internetsociety.org/sigs
>>> >> This countervenes ALAC rules which specify that ALSes must be
>>> geographical. See tinyurl.com/ALAC-RoP-AdjDoc4-2013-07
>>> >>
>>> >> "2. Be organised so that participation by individual Internet users
>>> who are citizens or residents of countries within the Geographic Region in
>>> which the ALS is based will predominate in the ALS' operation. The ALS may
>>> permit additional participation by others that is compatible with the
>>> interests of the individual Internet users within the region."
>>> >>
>>> >> The key words are "be organised" - and as much as I support the work
>>> of the Internet Society Rurel Special Interest Group, rural areas are not
>>> limited to Asia. Unless there is a commitment that this SIG will restrict
>>> the majority of its membership to come from the Asia region. The explicit
>>> response of the SIG in due diligence was "this is a global SIG".
>>> >>
>>> >> I also have a concern that it would be possible to create one SIG
>>> after another in ISOC and the meaning of ALS no longer applies as you are
>>> effectively creating votes.
>>> >>
>>> >> The question of "geographical" was asked on the APRALO mailing list
>>> as recently as 11 September 2019 (
>>> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/pipermail/apac-discuss/2019-September/004952.html
>>> ) but I do not see any response to this.
>>> >>
>>> >> Kindest regards,
>>> >>
>>> >> Olivier
>>> >>
>>> >>> On 18/09/2019 01:58, ICANN At-Large Staff wrote:
>>> >>> Dear All,
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> The regional advice from APRALO regarding the ALS Application (307)
>>> Internet Society Rural Development Special Interest Group has been received.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> The following question has been posed to the ALAC:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> *****
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Question: Does the ALAC wish to accredit the (307) Internet Society
>>> Rural Development Special Interest Group? The regional advice was to accept
>>> the application.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> *****
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Please note that this vote will close on Tuesday, 24 September 2019
>>> 23:59 UTC.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Kind Regards,
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
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>>> >>>
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>>> >>>
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>>> >>>
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>>> >>>
>>> >>>
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