[ALAC] ALS certification and decertification votes

Wed Oct 8 16:56:39 UTC 2014

Dear all

Seems I did not read through the whole thread, my apologies. I would opt for option 1 -- 
Secret but staff/chair can access details.

I think this strikes the balance needed 

Beran 
"There is nothing more difficult to arrange and more dangerous to carry through than initiating change..." Machiavelli 

Sent from my iPhone

> On 5 Oct 2014, at 16:09, Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca> wrote:
> 
> Two comments.
> 
> - I don't think that this is worth the effort for the very small number oof times it happens
> - A public (ie open for all to read or listen to as are most of out discussion) would then identify the people who plan to go cast a contentious ballot.
> 
> Alan
> 
> At 05/10/2014 11:41 AM, Eduardo Diaz wrote:
>> What if we say that all votes are open but, in those cases where there is a concern in voting openly, it gets discussed to reach consensus in ALAC as to whether in the specific case it goes secret or semi-secret. In other words, the default is that every vote is open except if someone requests not to be so and then, at that time, ALAC decides by consensus if the vote goes secret or whatever.
>> 
>> -ed
>> 
>> On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 2:58 PM, Subrenat, Jean-Jacques <<mailto:jjs at dyalog.net>jjs at dyalog.net> wrote:
>> @Sandra +1.
>> Jean-Jacques.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ----- Mail original -----
>> De: "Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro" <<mailto:salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com>salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com>
>> À: "Carlton Samuels" <<mailto:carlton.samuels at gmail.com>carlton.samuels at gmail.com>
>> Cc: "ALAC" <<mailto:alac at atlarge-lists.icann.org>alac at atlarge-lists.icann.org>, "Alan Greenberg" <<mailto:alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca>alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca>
>> Envoyé: Samedi 4 Octobre 2014 10:37:17
>> Objet: Re: [ALAC] ALS certification and decertification votes
>> 
>> 
>> Current institutional arrangements and the
>> 
>>> configuration is that at least ten (10) ALAC members are supposed to be
>>> reflecting their sense of ALS positions to ALAC and thence, to the Board
>>> and community.
>>> 
>>> If an ALAC member cannot vote and publicly justify one's vote then that
>>> member is unworthy of being an ALAC member.
>>> 
>>> Mark me down as unanimous on that.
>>> 
>>> -Carlton
>> ++++1 Carlton and Sandra
>> 
>>> 
>>> ==============================
>>> Carlton A Samuels
>>> Mobile: <tel:876-818-1799>876-818-1799
>>> *Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround*
>>> =============================
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 3:51 PM, Tijani BENJEMAA <<mailto:tijani.benjemaa at topnet.tn>tijani.benjemaa at topnet.tn
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Dear Alan,
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Unfortunately, I didn't attend the last ALAC call. I do appreciate that
>>>> this
>>>> issue was brought to the table.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I do think that the ALS certification and decertification votes should be
>>>> conducted as confidential votes to avoid any tension or harassment. Even
>>>> staff and the ALAC chair shouldn't know how ALAC Members voted. We may
>>> ask
>>>> voters to give the rational of their vote, but anonymously.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> My fear is that when the ALAC members cast their votes knowing that there
>>>> will be someone (staff and ALAC Chair) who will see how they voted, they
>>>> will not vote according to their conscience, they will modulate their
>>>> choice
>>>> according the relationship they think staff members and ALAC Chair have
>>>> with
>>>> the concerned ALS.
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> ----
>>>> 
>>>> Tijani BEN JEMAA
>>>> 
>>>> Executive Director
>>>> 
>>>> Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (FMAI)
>>>> 
>>>> Phone:  <tel:%2B%20216%2041%20649%20605>+ 216 41 649 605
>>>> 
>>>> Mobile: <tel:%2B%20216%2098%20330%20114>+ 216 98 330 114
>>>> 
>>>> Fax:     <tel:%2B%20216%2070%20853%20376>+ 216 70 853 376
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> ----
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Message d'origine-----
>>>> De : <mailto:alac-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org>alac-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org
>>>> [mailto:alac-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org] De la part de Alan
>>> Greenberg
>>>> Envoyé : jeudi 2 octobre 2014 14:37
>>>> À : ALAC
>>>> Objet : [ALAC] ALS certification and decertification votes
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On our last ALAC call, Olivier brought up the subject of whether ALS
>>>> 
>>>> certification and decertification votes should use secret ballots
>>>> 
>>>> (such as we used for personnel votes) or not, and it was decided to
>>>> 
>>>> discuss the issue on the mailing list.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> The history is that most ALAC votes are open and it is disclosed who
>>>> 
>>>> voted which way, with the exception of personnel votes and others
>>>> 
>>>> that the ALAC explicitly decides should be secret. We have made such
>>>> 
>>>> a decision of rare occasions. The only example I can recall is when
>>>> 
>>>> we voted on whether to file objections to the .health new TLDs and we
>>>> 
>>>> did so to avoid any harassment of ALAC members who voted for such
>>>> objections.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> A couple of years ago, a change was made to certification and
>>>> 
>>>> decertification votes to change them from open to closed because of
>>>> 
>>>> one or more objections filed by applicants. There is also a concern
>>>> 
>>>> that a rejected application could lead to harassment of those who
>>>> 
>>>> rejected it, and a concern that people might not vote honestly if the
>>>> 
>>>> result was public (similar to the reason for secret ballots on
>>>> 
>>>> personnel votes).
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I think that this concern should be considered.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> However, under our rules and the ICANN Bylaws, ALS certification and
>>>> 
>>>> decertification decisions may be appealed to the Board. As such, we
>>>> 
>>>> should be in a position to explain why a decision was made.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Accordingly I offer the following proposal.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ALS certification votes shall be conducted in such a way that there
>>>> 
>>>> will be no public disclosure of how ALAC Members voted. However, the
>>>> 
>>>> details of how ALAC Members voted will be available to ICANN At-Large
>>>> 
>>>> staff and the ALAC Chair to allow them to conduct private interviews
>>>> 
>>>> with voters to be able to put together a rationale for why any
>>>> 
>>>> particular decision was made.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Comments?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Alan
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
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>>>> 
>>>> 
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