[ALAC] ALS certification and decertification votes

Sun Oct 5 16:09:34 UTC 2014

Two comments.

- I don't think that this is worth the effort for 
the very small number oof times it happens
- A public (ie open for all to read or listen to 
as are most of out discussion) would then 
identify the people who plan to go cast a contentious ballot.

Alan

At 05/10/2014 11:41 AM, Eduardo Diaz wrote:
>What if we say that all votes are open but, in 
>those cases where there is a concern in voting 
>openly, it gets discussed to reach consensus in 
>ALAC as to whether in the specific case it goes 
>secret or semi-secret. In other words, the 
>default is that every vote is open except if 
>someone requests not to be so and then, at that 
>time, ALAC decides by consensus if the vote goes secret or whatever.
>
>-ed
>
>On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 2:58 PM, Subrenat, 
>Jean-Jacques <<mailto:jjs at dyalog.net>jjs at dyalog.net> wrote:
>@Sandra +1.
>Jean-Jacques.
>
>
>
>
>
>----- Mail original -----
>De: "Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro" 
><<mailto:salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com>salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com>
>Ã€: "Carlton Samuels" 
><<mailto:carlton.samuels at gmail.com>carlton.samuels at gmail.com>
>Cc: "ALAC" 
><<mailto:alac at atlarge-lists.icann.org>alac at atlarge-lists.icann.org>, 
>"Alan Greenberg" <<mailto:alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca>alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca>
>EnvoyÃ©: Samedi 4 Octobre 2014 10:37:17
>Objet: Re: [ALAC] ALS certification and decertification votes
>
>
>   Current institutional arrangements and the
>
> >  configuration is that at least ten (10) ALAC members are supposed to be
> > reflecting their sense of ALS positions to ALAC and thence, to the Board
> > and community.
> >
> > If an ALAC member cannot vote and publicly justify one's vote then that
> > member is unworthy of being an ALAC member.
> >
> > Mark me down as unanimous on that.
> >
> > -Carlton
> >
> >
>++++1 Carlton and Sandra
>
> >
> > ==============================
> > Carlton A Samuels
> > Mobile: <tel:876-818-1799>876-818-1799
> > *Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround*
> > =============================
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 2, 2014 at 3:51 PM, Tijani 
> BENJEMAA <<mailto:tijani.benjemaa at topnet.tn>tijani.benjemaa at topnet.tn
> > >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Dear Alan,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Unfortunately, I didn't attend the last ALAC call. I do appreciate that
> > > this
> > > issue was brought to the table.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I do think that the ALS certification and decertification votes should be
> > > conducted as confidential votes to avoid any tension or harassment. Even
> > > staff and the ALAC chair shouldn't know how ALAC Members voted. We may
> > ask
> > > voters to give the rational of their vote, but anonymously.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > My fear is that when the ALAC members cast their votes knowing that there
> > > will be someone (staff and ALAC Chair) who will see how they voted, they
> > > will not vote according to their conscience, they will modulate their
> > > choice
> > > according the relationship they think staff members and ALAC Chair have
> > > with
> > > the concerned ALS.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > ----
> > >
> > > Tijani BEN JEMAA
> > >
> > > Executive Director
> > >
> > > Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (FMAI)
> > >
> > > Phone:  <tel:%2B%20216%2041%20649%20605>+ 216 41 649 605
> > >
> > > Mobile: <tel:%2B%20216%2098%20330%20114>+ 216 98 330 114
> > >
> > > Fax:     <tel:%2B%20216%2070%20853%20376>+ 216 70 853 376
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > ----
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Message d'origine-----
> > > De : 
> <mailto:alac-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org>alac-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org
> > > [mailto:alac-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org] De la part de Alan
> > Greenberg
> > > EnvoyÃ© : jeudi 2 octobre 2014 14:37
> > > Ã€ : ALAC
> > > Objet : [ALAC] ALS certification and decertification votes
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On our last ALAC call, Olivier brought up the subject of whether ALS
> > >
> > > certification and decertification votes should use secret ballots
> > >
> > > (such as we used for personnel votes) or not, and it was decided to
> > >
> > > discuss the issue on the mailing list.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The history is that most ALAC votes are open and it is disclosed who
> > >
> > > voted which way, with the exception of personnel votes and others
> > >
> > > that the ALAC explicitly decides should be secret. We have made such
> > >
> > > a decision of rare occasions. The only example I can recall is when
> > >
> > > we voted on whether to file objections to the .health new TLDs and we
> > >
> > > did so to avoid any harassment of ALAC members who voted for such
> > > objections.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > A couple of years ago, a change was made to certification and
> > >
> > > decertification votes to change them from open to closed because of
> > >
> > > one or more objections filed by applicants. There is also a concern
> > >
> > > that a rejected application could lead to harassment of those who
> > >
> > > rejected it, and a concern that people might not vote honestly if the
> > >
> > > result was public (similar to the reason for secret ballots on
> > >
> > > personnel votes).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I think that this concern should be considered.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > However, under our rules and the ICANN Bylaws, ALS certification and
> > >
> > > decertification decisions may be appealed to the Board. As such, we
> > >
> > > should be in a position to explain why a decision was made.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Accordingly I offer the following proposal.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ALS certification votes shall be conducted in such a way that there
> > >
> > > will be no public disclosure of how ALAC Members voted. However, the
> > >
> > > details of how ALAC Members voted will be available to ICANN At-Large
> > >
> > > staff and the ALAC Chair to allow them to conduct private interviews
> > >
> > > with voters to be able to put together a rationale for why any
> > >
> > > particular decision was made.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Comments?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Alan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >
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> > >
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> > >
> > >
> > >
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> > >
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> > >
> > >
> > 
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> > > C)
> > >
> > >
> > >
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