[At-Large] Ukraine, .RU, and internet governance

Sun Mar 13 21:40:30 UTC 2022

I am very much in agreement with your sentiments.

The community of internet related bodies seems be clutching at their 
pearls, trying to protect abstract notions of "neutrality" that may or 
not even exist in reality, while real people are suffering real injuries 
and real deaths.

It may well be that the tools available, such as an effort to slow (but 
not stop) .ru DNS lookups, may have limited impact.

However, limited impacts cumulate; Gulliver was tied down in Lilliput by 
many tiny threads, any one of which he could have easily broken but in 
combination proved the stronger.

The community of internet bodies seems, like Pygmalian, to have fallen 
so deeply in love with its creation that their sense of ethics and 
morality has been benumbed; they love the statue they have carved over 
the living people upon which it is modeled.

     --karl--

On 3/13/22 11:12 AM, Antony Van Couvering via At-Large wrote:
> It’s appears that there is no appetite within this community to block 
> .ru, or to do something substantive to help Ukraine in its hour of 
> need, or even to say something about it. Finally, something that 
> unites a normally fractious group.
>
> I would challenge people to come up with something else that would 
> hurt Putin’s regime and/or help Ukraine, or at the very least advance 
> a single argument that isn’t based on the difficulty of navigating 
> bureaucracies.
>
> If not even that, how about a statement condemning Putin’s invasion? 
>  Or is that too a bridge too far?
>
> Either internet governance is meaningful and important in everyday 
> life, and therefore its leaders and institutions must have a position 
> on big events that affect the internet, or it is irrelevant and after 
> decades we should admit that our governance structures cannot meet the 
> moment and need to be reformed.
>
> As for Andrew Sullivan’s statement as head of ISOC, it is a very good 
> summary of the arguments against blocking .RU.  Effectively, he is 
> saying that the internet is and must remain apolitical and serve as a 
> connecting force and not a divisive one.
>
> That sounds good and right on the face of it, but if that’s the case, 
> I have a few questions:
>
> - where is ISOC’s statement on Putin dismantling free and open 
> internet within Russia?
>
> - where is ISOC’s statement on Putin’s ongoing violent effort to 
> dismantle the free and open internet in Ukraine?
>
> Surely these actual, real, and effective actions to harm the internet 
> deserve as much of a reaction than the hypothetical harm of a 
> hypothetical action. I am struck by the tender concern that Russian 
> citizens should have unfettered internet while Ukrainian users 
> huddling in bomb shelters without internet access (or power, or food) 
> are asked to cheer the principle of universal access.
>
> My view remains that neutrality in the face of mass murder is not 
> neutral.  These are extraordinary times, yet neither ICANN nor ISOC 
> nor indeed any internet governance institution that I’m aware of — and 
> I would be glad to stand corrected — can muster the courage to 
> forcefully condemn, in a stand-alone statement, Putin’s attempt not 
> only to eradicate Ukrainians’ free access to the internet but all the 
> rest of their human rights as well.
>
> As a group, internet governance experts have an opportunity to raise 
> their voice and demonstrate that a murderous invading regime cannot be 
> normalized by continuing business as usual.
>
> So far, I have heard nothing but crickets.
>
>
>
>> On Mar 13, 2022, at 07:11, Javier Rua via At-Large 
>> <at-large at atlarge-lists.icann.org> wrote:
>>
>>  -Thanks for link @Holly.
>>
>> Javier Rúa-Jovet
>>
>> +1-787-396-6511
>> twitter: @javrua
>> skype: javier.rua1
>> https://www.linkedin.com/in/javrua
>>
>>
>>> On Mar 13, 2022, at 1:07 AM, Holly Raiche via At-Large 
>>> <at-large at atlarge-lists.icann.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>  Folks
>>>
>>> Please read the statement from the ISOC CEO - a very well argued 
>>> statement about why cutting off .ru is not the answer, regardless of 
>>> how much we all deplored the actions Russia has taken
>>>
>>> Holly
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.internetsociety.org/blog/2022/03/why-the-world-must-resist-calls-to-undermine-the-internet/
>>>
>>>> On Mar 12, 2022, at 7:59 PM, Roberto Gaetano via At-Large 
>>>> <at-large at atlarge-lists.icann.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately, it is not an international law issue, otherwise it 
>>>> would be solved without any responsibility by ICANN - just follow 
>>>> the order of the judge.
>>>>
>>>> The problem lies elsewhere, and is whether ICANN is or not an 
>>>> independent authority that can be trusted for following basic 
>>>> principles and apply them evenly in all cases.
>>>>
>>>> If ICANN decides to remove .ru from the root, based on a request by 
>>>> Ukraine (who, by the way, is no longer insisting in asking this, 
>>>> maybe because they have understood the unintended consequences) I 
>>>> don’t see how it could resist the request of removing the ccTLDs of 
>>>> what the US consider “rogue” countries, like Iran, Cuba, and others.
>>>>
>>>> And this besides all what has been said at length in this and other 
>>>> lists, like that it will not make .ru disappear, just invite 
>>>> operators to have their own copy of the root.
>>>>
>>>> This said, there are other actions that ICANN can take, but after 
>>>> having decided whether it will keep its reputation of being a 
>>>> reliable steward for the Internet infrastructure in the global 
>>>> interest or indulge in actions that, while not achieving any 
>>>> practical result, will be emotionally satisfying.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Roberto
>>>>
>>>>> On 12.03.2022, at 04:55, SCHWEIGHOFER Erich Prof. Dr. Dr.. via 
>>>>> At-Large <at-large at atlarge-lists.icann.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> It is an international law issue and the main text for conflicts 
>>>>> and sovereignty is the UN Charta and its practice.
>>>>> In law, using the right text is decisive.
>>>>> Erich Schweighofer
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 12.03.2022 04:36 schrieb Antony Van Couvering via At-Large 
>>>>> <at-large at atlarge-lists.icann.org>:
>>>>>
>>>>>     The mealy-mouthed opposition to Ukraine’s request to block .RU
>>>>>     has exercised me so much that I called up Keith Teare to
>>>>>     complain.  Keith is a one-time candidate for ICANN CEO, a
>>>>>     former board member of Minds + Machines, founder of Real Names
>>>>>     and other companies, and a very smart guy with a good grasp of
>>>>>     history and the internet.
>>>>>
>>>>>     Keith doesn’t really agree with my position, so he suggested
>>>>>     that we record a conversation and talk it out.  To me, it
>>>>>     turned out well (pardon my video quality.
>>>>>
>>>>>     For those who’d like to hear a thorough discussion of the
>>>>>     issue, here it is:
>>>>>
>>>>>     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXZd6rtDHsA
>>>>>
>>>>>     Summary — all the reasons put forward as to why ICANN can’t do
>>>>>     anything — we go through them all — are bullshit.
>>>>>
>>>>>
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