<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>I am very much in agreement with your sentiments.</p>
<p>The community of internet related bodies seems be clutching at
their pearls, trying to protect abstract notions of "neutrality"
that may or not even exist in reality, while real people are
suffering real injuries and real deaths.</p>
<p>It may well be that the tools available, such as an effort to
slow (but not stop) .ru DNS lookups, may have limited impact.</p>
<p>However, limited impacts cumulate; Gulliver was tied down in
Lilliput by many tiny threads, any one of which he could have
easily broken but in combination proved the stronger.</p>
<p>The community of internet bodies seems, like Pygmalian, to have
fallen so deeply in love with its creation that their sense of
ethics and morality has been benumbed; they love the statue they
have carved over the living people upon which it is modeled.</p>
<p> --karl--<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/13/22 11:12 AM, Antony Van
Couvering via At-Large wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:B913F774-775F-4B3B-A3BE-EBEB470DF84D@avc.vc">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">It’s appears that there is no appetite within this
community to block .ru, or to do something substantive to help
Ukraine in its hour of need, or even to say something about it.
Finally, something that unites a normally fractious group. </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">I would challenge people to come up with something
else that would hurt Putin’s regime and/or help Ukraine, or at
the very least advance a single argument that isn’t based on the
difficulty of navigating bureaucracies. </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">If not even that, how about a statement condemning
Putin’s invasion? Or is that too a bridge too far?</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Either internet governance is meaningful and
important in everyday life, and therefore its leaders and
institutions must have a position on big events that affect the
internet, or it is irrelevant and after decades we should admit
that our governance structures cannot meet the moment and need
to be reformed. </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">As for Andrew Sullivan’s statement as head of ISOC,
it is a very good summary of the arguments against blocking .RU.
Effectively, he is saying that the internet is and must remain
apolitical and serve as a connecting force and not a divisive
one. </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">That sounds good and right on the face of it, but
if that’s the case, I have a few questions:</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">- where is ISOC’s statement on Putin dismantling
free and open internet within Russia?</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">- where is ISOC’s statement on Putin’s ongoing
violent effort to dismantle the free and open internet in
Ukraine?</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Surely these actual, real, and effective actions to
harm the internet deserve as much of a reaction than the
hypothetical harm of a hypothetical action. I am struck by the
tender concern that Russian citizens should have unfettered
internet while Ukrainian users huddling in bomb shelters without
internet access (or power, or food) are asked to cheer the
principle of universal access. </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">My view remains that neutrality in the face of mass
murder is not neutral. These are extraordinary times, yet
neither ICANN nor ISOC nor indeed any internet governance
institution that I’m aware of — and I would be glad to stand
corrected — can muster the courage to forcefully condemn, in a
stand-alone statement, Putin’s attempt not only to eradicate
Ukrainians’ free access to the internet but all the rest of
their human rights as well. </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">As a group, internet governance experts have an
opportunity to raise their voice and demonstrate that a
murderous invading regime cannot be normalized by continuing
business as usual. </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">So far, I have heard nothing but crickets. </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On Mar 13, 2022, at 07:11, Javier Rua
via At-Large <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org"><at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org></a> wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
-Thanks for link @Holly. <br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">Javier Rúa-Jovet
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255,
0);">+1-787-396-6511</span></div>
<div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255,
0);">twitter: @javrua</span></div>
<div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255,
0);">skype: javier.rua1</span></div>
<div><font style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255,
0);" color="#000000"><a
href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/javrua"
style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.linkedin.com/in/javrua</a> </font></div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On Mar 13, 2022, at 1:07 AM, Holly
Raiche via At-Large
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org"><at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org></a> wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=UTF-8">
Folks
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Please read the statement from the ISOC CEO
- a very well argued statement about why cutting off .ru
is not the answer, regardless of how much we all
deplored the actions Russia has taken</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Holly</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><a
href="https://www.internetsociety.org/blog/2022/03/why-the-world-must-resist-calls-to-undermine-the-internet/"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.internetsociety.org/blog/2022/03/why-the-world-must-resist-calls-to-undermine-the-internet/</a><br
class="">
<div><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Mar 12, 2022, at 7:59 PM, Roberto
Gaetano via At-Large
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org"><at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org></a> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type"
content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break:
after-white-space;" class="">
Unfortunately, it is not an international law
issue, otherwise it would be solved without any
responsibility by ICANN - just follow the order
of the judge.
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">The problem lies elsewhere, and is
whether ICANN is or not an independent
authority that can be trusted for following
basic principles and apply them evenly in all
cases.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">If ICANN decides to remove .ru
from the root, based on a request by Ukraine
(who, by the way, is no longer insisting in
asking this, maybe because they have
understood the unintended consequences) I
don’t see how it could resist the request of
removing the ccTLDs of what the US consider
“rogue” countries, like Iran, Cuba, and
others.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">And this besides all what has been
said at length in this and other lists, like
that it will not make .ru disappear, just
invite operators to have their own copy of the
root.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">This said, there are other actions
that ICANN can take, but after having decided
whether it will keep its reputation of being a
reliable steward for the Internet
infrastructure in the global interest or
indulge in actions that, while not achieving
any practical result, will be emotionally
satisfying.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Cheers,</div>
<div class="">Roberto<br class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On 12.03.2022, at 04:55,
SCHWEIGHOFER Erich Prof. Dr. Dr.. via
At-Large <<a
href="mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
moz-do-not-send="true">at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div dir="auto" class="">It is an
international law issue and the main
text for conflicts and sovereignty
is the UN Charta and its practice.
<div dir="auto" class="">In law,
using the right text is decisive.</div>
<div dir="auto" class="">Erich
Schweighofer</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">Am
12.03.2022 04:36 schrieb Antony
Van Couvering via At-Large <<a
href="mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
moz-do-not-send="true">at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a>>:<br
type="attribution" class="">
<blockquote class="quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div
style="word-wrap:break-word"
class="">The mealy-mouthed
opposition to Ukraine’s
request to block .RU has
exercised me so much that I
called up Keith Teare to
complain. Keith is a one-time
candidate for ICANN CEO, a
former board member of Minds +
Machines, founder of Real
Names and other companies, and
a very smart guy with a good
grasp of history and the
internet.
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Keith doesn’t
really agree with my
position, so he suggested
that we record a
conversation and talk it
out. To me, it turned out
well (pardon my video
quality. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">For those who’d
like to hear a thorough
discussion of the issue,
here it is:</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><a
href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXZd6rtDHsA"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXZd6rtDHsA</a></div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Summary — all
the reasons put forward as
to why ICANN can’t do
anything — we go through
them all — are bullshit.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br class="">
At-Large mailing list<br class="">
<a
href="mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
moz-do-not-send="true">At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a><br
class="">
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large">https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large</a><br class="">
<br class="">
At-Large Official Site:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://atlarge.icann.org">http://atlarge.icann.org</a><br class="">
_______________________________________________<br class="">
By submitting your personal data, you
consent to the processing of your
personal data for purposes of
subscribing to this mailing list
accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy
(<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy">https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy</a>)
and the website Terms of Service
(<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos">https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos</a>). You
can visit the Mailman link above to
change your membership status or
configuration, including unsubscribing,
setting digest-style delivery or
disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for
a vacation), and so on.</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br
class="">
At-Large mailing list<br class="">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org">At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a><br class="">
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large">https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large</a><br class="">
<br class="">
At-Large Official Site: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://atlarge.icann.org">http://atlarge.icann.org</a><br
class="">
_______________________________________________<br
class="">
By submitting your personal data, you consent to
the processing of your personal data for purposes
of subscribing to this mailing list accordance
with the ICANN Privacy Policy
(<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy">https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy</a>) and the
website Terms of Service
(<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos">https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos</a>). You can visit
the Mailman link above to change your membership
status or configuration, including unsubscribing,
setting digest-style delivery or disabling
delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so
on.</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
<span>At-Large mailing list</span><br>
<span><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org">At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a></span><br>
<span><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large">https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large</a></span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>At-Large Official Site: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://atlarge.icann.org">http://atlarge.icann.org</a></span><br>
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
<span>By submitting your personal data, you consent to the
processing of your personal data for purposes of
subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the
ICANN Privacy Policy
(<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy">https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy</a>) and the website
Terms of Service (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos">https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos</a>).
You can visit the Mailman link above to change your
membership status or configuration, including
unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or
disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation),
and so on.</span></div>
</blockquote>
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
<span>At-Large mailing list</span><br>
<span><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org">At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a></span><br>
<span><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large">https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large</a></span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>At-Large Official Site: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://atlarge.icann.org">http://atlarge.icann.org</a></span><br>
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
<span>By submitting your personal data, you consent to the
processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing
to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy
Policy (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy">https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy</a>) and the
website Terms of Service
(<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos">https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos</a>). You can visit the
Mailman link above to change your membership status or
configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style
delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a
vacation), and so on.</span></div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
At-Large mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org">At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large">https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large</a>
At-Large Official Site: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://atlarge.icann.org">http://atlarge.icann.org</a>
_______________________________________________
By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy">https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy</a>) and the website Terms of Service (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos">https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos</a>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.</pre>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>