<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <p>I am very much in agreement with your sentiments.</p>
    <p>The community of internet related bodies seems be clutching at
      their pearls, trying to protect abstract notions of "neutrality"
      that may or not even exist in reality, while real people are
      suffering real injuries and real deaths.</p>
    <p>It may well be that the tools available, such as an effort to
      slow (but not stop) .ru DNS lookups, may have limited impact.</p>
    <p>However, limited impacts cumulate; Gulliver was tied down in
      Lilliput by many tiny threads, any one of which he could have
      easily broken but in combination proved the stronger.</p>
    <p>The community of internet bodies seems, like Pygmalian, to have
      fallen so deeply in love with its creation that their sense of
      ethics and morality has been benumbed; they love the statue they
      have carved over the living people upon which it is modeled.</p>
    <p>    --karl--<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/13/22 11:12 AM, Antony Van
      Couvering via At-Large wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:B913F774-775F-4B3B-A3BE-EBEB470DF84D@avc.vc">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div dir="ltr">It’s appears that there is no appetite within this
        community to block .ru, or to do something substantive to help
        Ukraine in its hour of need, or even to say something about it.
        Finally, something that unites a normally fractious group. </div>
      <div dir="ltr"><br>
      </div>
      <div dir="ltr">I would challenge people to come up with something
        else that would hurt Putin’s regime and/or help Ukraine, or at
        the very least advance a single argument that isn’t based on the
        difficulty of navigating bureaucracies. </div>
      <div dir="ltr"><br>
      </div>
      <div dir="ltr">If not even that, how about a statement condemning
        Putin’s invasion?  Or is that too a bridge too far?</div>
      <div dir="ltr"><br>
      </div>
      <div dir="ltr">Either internet governance is meaningful and
        important in everyday life, and therefore its leaders and
        institutions must have a position on big events that affect the
        internet, or it is irrelevant and after decades we should admit
        that our governance structures cannot meet the moment and need
        to be reformed. </div>
      <div dir="ltr"><br>
      </div>
      <div dir="ltr">As for Andrew Sullivan’s statement as head of ISOC,
        it is a very good summary of the arguments against blocking .RU.
         Effectively, he is saying that the internet is and must remain
        apolitical and serve as a connecting force and not a divisive
        one. </div>
      <div dir="ltr"><br>
      </div>
      <div dir="ltr">That sounds good and right on the face of it, but
        if that’s the case, I have a few questions:</div>
      <div dir="ltr"><br>
      </div>
      <div dir="ltr">- where is ISOC’s statement on Putin dismantling
        free and open internet within Russia?</div>
      <div dir="ltr"><br>
      </div>
      <div dir="ltr">- where is ISOC’s statement on Putin’s ongoing
        violent effort to dismantle the free and open internet in
        Ukraine?</div>
      <div dir="ltr"><br>
      </div>
      <div dir="ltr">Surely these actual, real, and effective actions to
        harm the internet deserve as much of a reaction than the
        hypothetical harm of a hypothetical action. I am struck by the
        tender concern that Russian citizens should have unfettered
        internet while Ukrainian users huddling in bomb shelters without
        internet access (or power, or food) are asked to cheer the
        principle of universal access. </div>
      <div dir="ltr"><br>
      </div>
      <div dir="ltr">My view remains that neutrality in the face of mass
        murder is not neutral.  These are extraordinary times, yet
        neither ICANN nor ISOC nor indeed any internet governance
        institution that I’m aware of — and I would be glad to stand
        corrected — can muster the courage to forcefully condemn, in a
        stand-alone statement, Putin’s attempt not only to eradicate
        Ukrainians’ free access to the internet but all the rest of
        their human rights as well. </div>
      <div dir="ltr"><br>
      </div>
      <div dir="ltr">As a group, internet governance experts have an
        opportunity to raise their voice and demonstrate that a
        murderous invading regime cannot be normalized by continuing
        business as usual. </div>
      <div dir="ltr"><br>
      </div>
      <div dir="ltr">So far, I have heard nothing but crickets. </div>
      <div dir="ltr"><br>
      </div>
      <div dir="ltr"><br>
      </div>
      <div dir="ltr"><br>
        <blockquote type="cite">On Mar 13, 2022, at 07:11, Javier Rua
          via At-Large <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org"><at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org></a> wrote:<br>
          <br>
        </blockquote>
      </div>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <div dir="ltr">
          <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
            charset=UTF-8">
          -Thanks for link @Holly.  <br>
          <br>
          <div dir="ltr">Javier Rúa-Jovet
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>
              <div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255,
                  0);">+1-787-396-6511</span></div>
              <div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255,
                  0);">twitter: @javrua</span></div>
              <div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255,
                  0);">skype: javier.rua1</span></div>
              <div><font style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255,
                  0);" color="#000000"><a
                    href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/javrua"
                    style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"
                    moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.linkedin.com/in/javrua</a> </font></div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
          <div dir="ltr"><br>
            <blockquote type="cite">On Mar 13, 2022, at 1:07 AM, Holly
              Raiche via At-Large
              <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org"><at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org></a> wrote:<br>
              <br>
            </blockquote>
          </div>
          <blockquote type="cite">
            <div dir="ltr">
              <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
                charset=UTF-8">
              Folks
              <div class=""><br class="">
              </div>
              <div class="">Please read the statement from the ISOC CEO
                - a very well argued statement about why cutting off .ru
                is not the answer, regardless of how much we all
                deplored the actions Russia has taken</div>
              <div class=""><br class="">
              </div>
              <div class="">Holly</div>
              <div class=""><br class="">
              </div>
              <div class=""><br class="">
              </div>
              <div class=""><a
href="https://www.internetsociety.org/blog/2022/03/why-the-world-must-resist-calls-to-undermine-the-internet/"
                  class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.internetsociety.org/blog/2022/03/why-the-world-must-resist-calls-to-undermine-the-internet/</a><br
                  class="">
                <div><br class="">
                  <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                    <div class="">On Mar 12, 2022, at 7:59 PM, Roberto
                      Gaetano via At-Large
                      <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org"><at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org></a> wrote:</div>
                    <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
                    <div class="">
                      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type"
                        content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
                      <div style="word-wrap: break-word;
                        -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break:
                        after-white-space;" class="">
                        Unfortunately, it is not an international law
                        issue, otherwise it would be solved without any
                        responsibility by ICANN - just follow the order
                        of the judge.
                        <div class=""><br class="">
                        </div>
                        <div class="">The problem lies elsewhere, and is
                          whether ICANN is or not an independent
                          authority that can be trusted for following
                          basic principles and apply them evenly in all
                          cases.</div>
                        <div class=""><br class="">
                        </div>
                        <div class="">If ICANN decides to remove .ru
                          from the root, based on a request by Ukraine
                          (who, by the way, is no longer insisting in
                          asking this, maybe because they have
                          understood the unintended consequences) I
                          don’t see how it could resist the request of
                          removing the ccTLDs of what the US consider
                          “rogue” countries, like Iran, Cuba, and
                          others.</div>
                        <div class=""><br class="">
                        </div>
                        <div class="">And this besides all what has been
                          said at length in this and other lists, like
                          that it will not make .ru disappear, just
                          invite operators to have their own copy of the
                          root.</div>
                        <div class=""><br class="">
                        </div>
                        <div class="">This said, there are other actions
                          that ICANN can take, but after having decided
                          whether it will keep its reputation of being a
                          reliable steward for the Internet
                          infrastructure in the global interest or
                          indulge in actions that, while not achieving
                          any practical result, will be emotionally
                          satisfying.</div>
                        <div class=""><br class="">
                        </div>
                        <div class="">Cheers,</div>
                        <div class="">Roberto<br class="">
                          <div class=""><br class="">
                            <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                              <div class="">On 12.03.2022, at 04:55,
                                SCHWEIGHOFER Erich Prof. Dr. Dr.. via
                                At-Large <<a
                                  href="mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org"
                                  class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
                                  moz-do-not-send="true">at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a>>
                                wrote:</div>
                              <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
                              <div class="">
                                <div class="">
                                  <div dir="auto" class="">It is an
                                    international law issue and the main
                                    text for conflicts and sovereignty
                                    is the UN Charta and its practice.
                                    <div dir="auto" class="">In law,
                                      using the right text is decisive.</div>
                                    <div dir="auto" class="">Erich
                                      Schweighofer</div>
                                  </div>
                                  <div class="gmail_extra"><br class="">
                                    <div class="gmail_quote">Am
                                      12.03.2022 04:36 schrieb Antony
                                      Van Couvering via At-Large <<a
href="mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org"
                                        class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a>>:<br
                                        type="attribution" class="">
                                      <blockquote class="quote"
                                        style="margin:0 0 0
                                        .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                                        solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                        <div
                                          style="word-wrap:break-word"
                                          class="">The mealy-mouthed
                                          opposition to Ukraine’s
                                          request to block .RU has
                                          exercised me so much that I
                                          called up Keith Teare to
                                          complain.  Keith is a one-time
                                          candidate for ICANN CEO, a
                                          former board member of Minds +
                                          Machines, founder of Real
                                          Names and other companies, and
                                          a very smart guy with a good
                                          grasp of history and the
                                          internet. 
                                          <div class=""><br class="">
                                          </div>
                                          <div class="">Keith doesn’t
                                            really agree with my
                                            position, so he suggested
                                            that we record a
                                            conversation and talk it
                                            out.  To me, it turned out
                                            well (pardon my video
                                            quality. </div>
                                          <div class=""><br class="">
                                          </div>
                                          <div class="">For those who’d
                                            like to hear a thorough
                                            discussion of the issue,
                                            here it is:</div>
                                          <div class=""><br class="">
                                          </div>
                                          <div class=""><a
                                              href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXZd6rtDHsA"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXZd6rtDHsA</a></div>
                                          <div class=""><br class="">
                                          </div>
                                          <div class="">Summary — all
                                            the reasons put forward as
                                            to why ICANN can’t do
                                            anything — we go through
                                            them all — are bullshit.</div>
                                        </div>
                                      </blockquote>
                                    </div>
                                    <br class="">
                                  </div>
                                </div>
_______________________________________________<br class="">
                                At-Large mailing list<br class="">
                                <a
                                  href="mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org"
                                  class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
                                  moz-do-not-send="true">At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a><br
                                  class="">
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large">https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large</a><br class="">
                                <br class="">
                                At-Large Official Site:
                                <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://atlarge.icann.org">http://atlarge.icann.org</a><br class="">
_______________________________________________<br class="">
                                By submitting your personal data, you
                                consent to the processing of your
                                personal data for purposes of
                                subscribing to this mailing list
                                accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy
                                (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy">https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy</a>)
                                and the website Terms of Service
                                (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos">https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos</a>). You
                                can visit the Mailman link above to
                                change your membership status or
                                configuration, including unsubscribing,
                                setting digest-style delivery or
                                disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for
                                a vacation), and so on.</div>
                            </blockquote>
                          </div>
                          <br class="">
                        </div>
                      </div>
                      _______________________________________________<br
                        class="">
                      At-Large mailing list<br class="">
                      <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org">At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a><br class="">
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large">https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large</a><br class="">
                      <br class="">
                      At-Large Official Site: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://atlarge.icann.org">http://atlarge.icann.org</a><br
                        class="">
                      _______________________________________________<br
                        class="">
                      By submitting your personal data, you consent to
                      the processing of your personal data for purposes
                      of subscribing to this mailing list accordance
                      with the ICANN Privacy Policy
                      (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy">https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy</a>) and the
                      website Terms of Service
                      (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos">https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos</a>). You can visit
                      the Mailman link above to change your membership
                      status or configuration, including unsubscribing,
                      setting digest-style delivery or disabling
                      delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so
                      on.</div>
                  </blockquote>
                </div>
                <br class="">
              </div>
              <span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
              <span>At-Large mailing list</span><br>
              <span><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org">At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a></span><br>
              <span><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large">https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large</a></span><br>
              <span></span><br>
              <span>At-Large Official Site: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://atlarge.icann.org">http://atlarge.icann.org</a></span><br>
              <span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
              <span>By submitting your personal data, you consent to the
                processing of your personal data for purposes of
                subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the
                ICANN Privacy Policy
                (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy">https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy</a>) and the website
                Terms of Service (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos">https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos</a>).
                You can visit the Mailman link above to change your
                membership status or configuration, including
                unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or
                disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation),
                and so on.</span></div>
          </blockquote>
          <span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
          <span>At-Large mailing list</span><br>
          <span><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org">At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a></span><br>
          <span><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large">https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large</a></span><br>
          <span></span><br>
          <span>At-Large Official Site: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://atlarge.icann.org">http://atlarge.icann.org</a></span><br>
          <span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
          <span>By submitting your personal data, you consent to the
            processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing
            to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy
            Policy (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy">https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy</a>) and the
            website Terms of Service
            (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos">https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos</a>). You can visit the
            Mailman link above to change your membership status or
            configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style
            delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a
            vacation), and so on.</span></div>
      </blockquote>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
At-Large mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org">At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large">https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large</a>

At-Large Official Site: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://atlarge.icann.org">http://atlarge.icann.org</a>
_______________________________________________
By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy">https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy</a>) and the website Terms of Service (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos">https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos</a>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.</pre>
    </blockquote>
  </body>
</html>