[At-Large] [ALAC] Fwd: A million domains taken down by email checks

Aida Noblia aidanoblia at gmail.com
Mon Jul 7 15:28:53 UTC 2014

I do not live in the UE I live in a country in Latin America where as in
many countries in this region and there is a law on protection of personal
data. Of course laws are one thing and another effective implementation, in
different countries and their development. These new rules have more
seniority and longer applied in the UE, where they are the second or third
generation of standards for personal data, these are countries with a
different development that allows applying laws and enforce another way
effective. In my country the law of 2008 and generated great concern at the
moment especially in the commercial area, which was complicated activity.
Today the training process continues, it continues to broadcast stage,
slowly see the benefits of the law, people learn their rights, the
practical application has improved, although quite lacking. My intention is
to contribute to dialogue and different points of view and the legal side
look to adjust the rules to all countries. In the U.S. and other countries
there are other standards. ICANN should consider that there are different
laws in different countries and that should be respected the laws of each
country and keep people incur responsibilities.

2014-07-07 9:39 GMT-03:00 Derek Smythe <derek at aa419.org>:

> If we are to drag EU privacy law into this debate:
> If we can agree that if any party in the EU has his whois data
> "privatized", his domain shall be suspended immediately the first time
> he abuses my rights where I don't reside in the EU Union, then we can
> talk about this. Further a complimentary system need to be set up by
> EU regulators where non-EU citizens can report details of abuse of
> their rights by holders of domains protected under EU legislation and
> the abused will be heard and promptly so, not six weeks or like by
> which time much harm can be done already.
> Otherwise it be best to remember that the world is bigger than the EU
> Union, we are talking about gTLD's and my rights are not subservient
> to the rights of somebody living in the EU. Europe is home to only
> about 12% of the world population. The EU has access to .EU domains
> etc, why not use them?
> Without this, we may as well consider our information super highway
> trying to apply UK road rules and US road rules at the same time with
> predictable disastrous conclusion.
> Derek Smythe
> On 2014-07-07 01:01 PM, Michele Neylon - Blacknight wrote:
> > Vittorio
> >
> > The privacy issue you raise is one that EU based registrars face every
> day.
> >
> > ICANN currently has  a comment period open on this subject, but I'm not
> seeing many comments so far:
> >
> >
> https://www.icann.org/public-comments/whois-conflicts-procedure-2014-05-22-en
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Michele
> >
> > --
> > Mr Michele Neylon
> > Blacknight Solutions
> > Hosting, Colocation & Domains
> > http://www.blacknight.co/
> > http://blog.blacknight.com/
> > http://www.technology.ie
> > Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072
> > Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
> > Twitter: http://twitter.com/mneylon
> > -------------------------------
> > Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business
> Park,Sleaty
> > Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland  Company No.: 370845
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: at-large-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:
> at-large-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Vittorio Bertola
> > Sent: Monday, July 07, 2014 5:19 AM
> > To: Kerry Brown
> > Cc: ICANN ALAC list; ICANN At-Large list
> > Subject: Re: [At-Large] [ALAC] Fwd: A million domains taken down by
> email checks
> >
> > Il 06/07/14 19:41, Kerry Brown ha scritto:
> >> I can speak from the end user point of view on this issue. As a
> >> consultant to small businesses I have seen several clients suffer
> >> business hardship because of this issue (invalid contact email). It is
> >> not uncommon for a small business owner to not want to deal with "the
> >> internet". They hire someone to get them "the internet". This usually
> >> means a domain, a web site, email, etc. Someone sells them a package
> >> that includes all this. Often the contact email will be the person
> >> that sells them the package. Some of these resellers are unscrupulous,
> >> some are just incompetent, some for whatever reason leave the
> >> business. The domain may not even be registered in the small business
> >> name but in the name of the reseller who has disappeared. When the
> >> domain goes dark the business loses email, their website, and possibly
> >> more. By the time the small business owner contacts someone like me to
> >> fix their internet a few weeks to a month may have gone by. Small
> >> business owners are busy running th e day to day things and thought
> >> they had "the internet" covered, after all they have been paying
> >> someone to deal with it. By the time they figure out they don't have
> >> someone to deal with it and find someone who will they may have lost
> >> the domain. There is almost aways a charge from the registrar to
> >> reinstate the domain. They have not had email or a web site for long
> >> enough that it has cost them business.
> >> They end up with a very sour taste for "the internet" and the people
> >> that "run" it. They equate internet governance with the people that
> >> run the internet. They have no idea how things happen so they they are
> >> on "the internet". They mostly think of Al Gore when they even think
> >> about how the internet works. We who have built this ecosystem have
> >> not built it for people that are not intimately involved in it.
> >> It is up to us to fix it. We can't simply blame registrants.
> >
> > This is just so true... When, several years ago, I used to make websites
> for small companies and non-profits in Italy, most of the people in charge
> at the customer had no idea of what "Whois" was. I had the choice of either
> listing as the main contact the actual registrant, who would not be able to
> understand any communication about this matter, or myself, which I did.
> Later, I stopped doing that job, but I could not convince almost any of my
> former customers that they needed to put someone else as a contact, also
> because they didn't have anyone able to assume the role. Now, I am a nice
> guy and continue watching over their domain names for free, but in any
> other case those domains would now be stuck with the contact information of
> someone who does not care anymore about them, let alone update the
> information as it changes.
> >
> > This is also because, you know, the only thing people usually expect
> from their domain name is for it to point to their website and/or mail
> server. They don't expect their domain name to be a point of contact for
> their company or themselves, nor to have to waste time on updating a
> wondrously complex set of contacts. Actually, even if their Whois contacts
> are not up to date, usually you could just go to their website and find an
> e-mail address and/or phone number that works, and that they keep
> up-to-date. In case something bad happens with their domain name, it takes
> you ten seconds to google their name and find their contacts - it actually
> takes less than using Whois. So why should registrants lose time to update
> contact information that no one uses (actually, no one even knows that it
> exists) except a small community of techies and lawyers, when they already
> provide valid contact information in a page on their website?
> >
> > Moreover, among the few registrants who actually know what Whois is, I
> know many here in Italy who provide bogus contact information on
> > purpose: the registrant's name is correct, but the address and phone
> number are not, and the e-mail address either does not work at all or, more
> likely, is a specific "spammable" e-mail address that they use for
> situations in which they don't know how the information will be managed
> (e.g. obscure websites that require a registration to allow you to do
> something which you only need to do once), and which is so full of spam
> that it is never read except at the time when you register somewhere and
> need to click on a confirmation email.
> >
> > People would be much more likely to submit real contact information if
> they knew that it wouldn't be made public to anyone who would want to abuse
> it, e.g. spammers, phishers, bully lawyers and the likes. I don't think
> that ICANN has any right to blame anyone not providing valid contact
> information if it is not providing any protection for the privacy of that
> information, and I would expect the ALAC (at least its European members) to
> point out just that.
> >
> > Ciao
> >
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Aida Noblia

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