[lac-discuss-en] =? Utf-8? Q? Statement = B3n_Final_Amazon_vs = 2E_IC? = =? Utf-8? Q? ANN? =
vanda at scartezini.org
vanda at scartezini.org
Sun Jul 23 03:54:21 UTC 2017
[[--Translated text (es -> en)--]]
Subject: Re: =? Utf-8? Q? Statement = B3n_Final_Amazon_vs = 2E_IC? = =? Utf-8? Q? ANN? =
Desde: vanda at scartezini.org
Excellent!
Vanda Scartezini
Sent from my iPhone
Sorry for typos
On 21 Jul 2017, at 15:55, carlos dionisio aguirre <carlosaguirre62 at hotmail.com<mailto:carlosaguirre62 at hotmail.com> > Wrote:
I share the position of bestbits in a 100%
https://bestbits.net/amazon/
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
-------- Original message --------
From: Alejandro Pisanty <apisanty at gmail.com<mailto:apisanty at gmail.com> >
Date: 7/21/17 1:44 PM (GMT-03: 00)
To: "Gutierrez, Carlos Raul" <carlosraul at gutierrez.se<mailto:carlosraul at gutierrez.se> >
Cc: LACRALO <lac-discuss-es at atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:lac-discuss-es at atlarge-lists.icann.org> >
Subject: Re: [lac-discuss-en] Final Statement Amazon vs. I CAN
Carlos,
I would not come to the same conclusion. I emphasize that from a very cold point of view, .tv and similar are operated as gTLDs without the contractual requirements that ICANN requires to the registries.
In our region we also present some ccTLDs that use the semantic similarity of their two-letter designations with other symbolisms for an operation that for all practical purposes is in the generic market. To some observers, that is an abuse and adversely affects end users.
Alejandro Pisanty
2017-07-20 9:42 GMT-05: 00 Gutierrez, Carlos Raul <carlosraul at gutierrez.se<mailto:carlosraul at gutierrez.se> >:
Thank you dear Aeljandro,
Following this line of thought of yours, one prodia deduce that according to your number 3, then only the development of .tv and .nu are reliable because despite their small populations their representation in the root has been very very successful financially .... ..this is not what I suggest when I ask that from the point of view of cultural communities ligusiticas and geografica think to give them a space in the DNS that is not necessarily a ccTLD FOR PROFIT .........
a hug
Carlos Raúl Gutiérrez
================
Mobile +506 8837 7176
Skype: carlos.raulg
Apartado 1571-1000, COSTA RICA
On 19-07-2017 19:01, Alejandro Pisanty wrote:
Vanda,
I agree very much with your points of view. I add to have more coordinates in this discussion:
1.The case presented by the governments of the Amazon region is profoundly weakened by the fact that Amazonas, Amazonia, etc. Are used as trademarks and other commercial identifiers in the same countries (you already indicate);
2. The high cost of new gTLD proposals is indeed an impediment to very small community organizations, but in many other ways it is desirable from the point of view of registrants and users in general, as it is a way of filtering To proponents who will operate their gTLDs on a lasting basis. Recall that what is at stake is not only an object of commerce, with the volatility they must have, but a global DNS element. If that element is unstable, it has the potential to affect the stability, robustness, resiliency, and also the reliability of the DNS in general.
3. The promises that a community gTLD will operate for the benefit of the community are very unreliable. The most recent sample was given by the .asia (dot-asia) domain in the last 24 hours, which has relaxed the localization restrictions of new registrants almost to the point of risibility.It has passed from "bona fide" and demonstrable residents in Asia to "interested in relating to Asia", which should be about 6 billion people.
I draw your attention to the fact that the topic of the .amazon domain is most likely to be proposed for discussion at events close to the upcoming LACIGF in Panama as of August 1 or 2.
Best regards
Alejandro Pisanty
2017-07-19 16:44 GMT-05: 00 Vanda Scartezini <vanda at scartezini.org<mailto:vanda at scartezini.org> >:
I do not question prices and if small communities can make use of their geographic identification. I still believe that trademarks also have the right to keep their names in the circle that suits them. There is also innovation without the community having its own TLD I still believe it is more controllable. The problem continues because both are right to see me. But for example AMAZON, if a local community of the Amazon region that speaks Latin languages \u200b\u200bwill not breed, for example a TLD called Amazon that is not their language. You will create it as Amazon or Amazonica that even has similarity can be differentiated.To reach an agreement can make things more viable for both sides.
What I question is the simple prohibition on the names of geographical points after the same regions allow wl use in their territory of the same name. There is a right here that must also be repected.
Vanda Scartezini
Contact Us
Av. Paulista 1159, cj 1004
01311-200- Sao Paulo, SP, Brazil
Land Line: +55 11 3266.6253
Mobile: + 55 11 98181.1464
Sorry for any typos.
From: "Gutierrez, Carlos Raul" <carlosraul at gutierrez.se<mailto:carlosraul at gutierrez.se> >
Date: Wednesday, July 19, 2017 at 12:54
To: Vanda Scartezini <vanda at scartezini.org<mailto:vanda at scartezini.org> >
Cc: Aida Noblia <aidanoblia at gmail.com<mailto:aidanoblia at gmail.com> >, Humberto Carrasco <hcarrascob at gmail.com<mailto:hcarrascob at gmail.com> >, "Lac-discuss-es at atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:lac-discuss-es at atlarge-lists.icann.org> " <lac-discuss-es at atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:lac-discuss-es at atlarge-lists.icann.org> >, Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca<mailto:alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca> >
Subject: Re: [lac-discuss-en] Final Statement Amazon vs. I CAN
Dear Vanda,
With all due respect, I believe that the expansion of the gTLD space has left the use / defense of the Trademarks as (only) a possibility of the use of the domain names nothing more, not the only or principal.
I firmly believe that the expansion of the DNS space has opened the door for other communities (geographic, cultural and social) to develop online models.As ALAC I think the question we must ask is whether the ICANN Model of $ 185,000 per application and $ 25,000 per year for a gTLD for a small community is sustainable or not. I think it is not. And cfeo that it is ALAC's subject to talk about this. We are not specialists in trademark and intellectual property issues. Or at least it is not the object of our community.
So, I want to plan our community a serious and deep discussion, how we can live in a future where the DNS space can be shared between
1. trademarks and intellectual property, which invest a lot of money in the DNS, but use little in terms of records at the second level. They can afford to hold the high costs of their caged gardens.
2. the real new generics, so that they open field to the innovation of all type avoiding the concentration of the market in few operators
3. geographical, cultural, linguistic (IDN) communities, etc. Can use the vast new resources available, without having to pay amounts to ICANN that make their ideals unsustainable.In part this topic focuses today only on GeoNames, but affects other communities as well.
Congratulations to the decision of the IRP, to be able to replanterarnos the object of ALAC and LACRALO in particular.
Carlos Raúl Gutiérrez
================
Mobile +506 8837 7176
Skype: carlos.raulg
Apartado 1571-1000, COSTA RICA
On 19-07-2017 09:34, Vanda Scartezini wrote:
I have a particular opinion that I have already shared with ALAC and in English with other colleagues: I do not think that the explanation given by GAC - because nonexistent, has relevance. For example, did Brazil think that it was a name that could bring conflict for the inhabitants of the region then because the brand was granted to the company AMAZON? AMAZOn's use of .amazon is not different from its use of its Brand. It's a TLD brand.
I see no real reason for all this discussion on this subject.Perhaps only a negotiation between the parties involved and no basis for a general policy.
Vanda Scartezini
Contact Us
Av. Paulista 1159, cj 1004
01311-200- Sao Paulo, SP, Brazil
Land Line: +55 11 3266.6253
Mobile: + 55 11 98181.1464
Sorry for any typos.
From: "lac-discuss-es-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:lac-discuss-es-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org> " <lac-discuss-es-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:lac-discuss-es-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org> > On behalf of Aida Noblia <aidanoblia at gmail.com<mailto:aidanoblia at gmail.com> >
Date: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 at 21:19
To: Humberto Carrasco <hcarrascob at gmail.com<mailto:hcarrascob at gmail.com> >
Cc: "lac-discuss-es at atlarge-lists.icann.org <mailto:lac-discuss-es at atlarge-lists.icann.org> " <lac-discuss-es at atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:lac-discuss-es at atlarge-lists.icann.org> >
Subject: Re: [lac-discuss-en] Final Statement Amazon vs. I CAN
Thank you very much Humberto and also Carlos Gutierrez. Important topic yes.
regards
Aída
On July 18, 2017, 12:12, Humberto Carrasco <hcarrascob at gmail.com<mailto:hcarrascob at gmail.com> > Wrote:
Dear All,
I want to thank Carlos Raúl Gutierrez for bringing me the Final Declaration in the case "Amazon versus ICANN. https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/irp-amazon-final-declaration-11jul17-en.pdf)
I have prepared a summary of the majority opinion because it is a matter of absolute relevance for the region. The translation into Spanish I did, so forgive the mistakes.
regards
English
Spanish
Claimant Amazon EU S. arl ("Amazon") seeks independent review of the Board of the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers ("ICANN"), acting through ICANN's New gTLD Program Committee ("NGPC"), denying its Applications for top-level domain names of .amazon and its IDN equivalents in Chinese and Japanese characters.Amazon contends that in making the decision to deny its
Applications, the NGPC acted in a manner that was inconsistent with and violated provisions of ICANN's Articles of Incorporation, Bylaws and / or Applicant Guidebook for gTLD domain names (collectively, ICANN's "governance documents"). ICANN contends, to the contrary, that at all times the NGPC acted consistently with ICANN's governance documents.
The Applicant Amazon US S. a. RL ("Amazon") seeks an independent review of the decision
Of the Board of Directors of the Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers ("ICANN"), acting through the ICANN New gTLD Program Committee ("NGPC"), denying their requests for level domain names Top of .amazon and its IDN equivalents in their Chinese and Japanese characters. Amazon submits that in making the decision to deny its requests, the NGPC acted in a manner that was inconsistent with and violated provisions of the ICANN Bylaws, Regulations and / or Applicant Guide for gTLD Domain Names (collectively, "Documents Of governance "of ICANN).ICANN maintains, on the contrary, that at all times the NGPC acted consistently with the governance documents.
Conclusion
conclusion
Based upon the foregoing, we declare that Amazon has established that ICANN's Board, acting through the NGPC, acted in a manner inconsistent with ICANN's Bylaws, as more fully described above. Further, the GAC, as a constituent body of ICANN, failed to allow the applicant to submit any information to the GAC and thus deprived the applicant of the minimal degree of procedural fairness before issuance of its advice, as required by the Bylaws. The failure by the GAC to accord procedural fairness diminishes the presumption that would otherwise attach to its consensual advice.
Based on the foregoing, we declare that Amazon has established that the ICANN Board acting through the NGPC acted inconsistently with the Bylaws, as described in more detail above.In addition, the GAC, as an ICANN body, did not allow the applicant to submit any information to the GAC and deprived the applicant of the minimum degree of procedural fairness prior to the issuance of its board as required by the Statutes. The inability of the GAC to grant procedural fairness diminishes the presumption that would otherwise be attached to its consensual advice.
The Panel recommends that the Board of ICANN promptly re-evaluate Amazon's applications in light of the Panel's statements above. In its re-evaluation of the applications, the Board should make an objective and independent judgment as to whether there are, in fact, well-founded, merits-based public policy reasons for denying Amazon's applications. Further, if the Board should not proceed, the Board should explain its reasons supporting that decision. The GAC consensus advice, standing alone, can not supplant the Board's independent and objective decision with a reasoned analysis. If the Board of Directors of ICANN's Bylaws, in effect, requires the Board to meet and confer with the GAC.(See Bylaws, Article XI, § 2.1 (j).) In light of our declaration, we recommend that ICANN do so within sixty (60) days of the issuance of this Final Declaration. The Board is required to state the reasons why it is not the GAC consensus advice, we recommend the Board to quote this Final Declara
tion and the reasons set forth herein.
The Panel recommends that ICANN's Board of Directors re-evaluate Amazon's requests promptly in light of Panel's statements made earlier. In its reevaluation of requests, the Board must issue an objective and independent judgment as to whether there are well-founded and merit-based public policy reasons to deny Amazon's requests. In addition, if the Board determines that the requests are unfounded, the Board should explain the reasons supporting that decision. The consensus advice of the GAC, on its own, can not supplant the independent and objective decision of the Board with a reasoned analysis. If the Board determines that applications should continue, we understand that the ICANN Bylaws, in effect, require the Board to "meet and confer" with the GAC. (See Regulations, Article XI, § 2.1 (j)).In light of our statement, we recommend that ICANN do so within sixty (60) days of the issuance of this Final Statement. As the Board of Directors is required to explain why
it does not follow the consensus advice of the GAC, we recommend that the Board of Directors cite this Final Statement and the reasons set forth herein.
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