[lac-discuss-en] =? Iso-8859-1? Q? Confusion = F3n_-_ClarF3n_de_la_Regi =? == Iso-8859-1? Q? Ificaci = F3n? =

Sun Aug 19 17:01:45 UTC 2012

My response below your paragraphs.

ROK

From: José Francisco Arce 
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 11:13 AM
To: Webmaster 
Cc: lac-discuss-en at atlarge-lists.icann.org 
Subject: Re: [lac-discuss-en] =? Iso-8859-1? Q? Confusion = F3n_-_ClarF3n_de_la_Regi =? == Iso-8859-1? Q? Ificaci = F3n? =

Dear ROK, all, 

My answer is below each parragraph

Kind Regards

Jose Arce.- 

2012/8/19 Webmaster <rok at bango.org.bb>

  Jose,

  I am having trouble with the translation but from what I understand you to say, this is my response:

No problem ROK, I will address yours doubts here in English. And apologize for have not done this before in English.

No apology required. The translation is my problem for not knowing sufficient Spanish. I am simply trying to be clear.

You did make a decision which is not properly yours to make. You cannot determine that a candidate does not meet the requirements when there is ample evidence in the rules that suggests that the candidate meets the requirements. A ruling is a decision one way or the other. It is a matter of opinion and you sought to impose your opinion. If the rules wanted a Chairman to make executive decisions it would have spelt it out in the same manner that it spelt out the administrative role of the Secretariat. If a rule is not there you cannot assume you can undertake this role.

  Most of you have spoken out against what you called "The president's decision." Here is the first mistake. I never took any decision. Just see the English version of my email in the last paragraph I only mention the word "consider". All the discussion that is derived from there is incorrect. “No decision was taken by the president” or chairman or the name what you want to called. 

  Of course you made a decision and you can call it what you like and deliver it in whatever form, it has the anatomy of decision-making.

  The rules are very clear and you cannot impute a role for yourself that is not there. There is a reason why the Chairman does not have an executive role and it is clear from the rules that the reason this is not so, is because the rules make provisions for all members to participate in decision making. This is very consistent with the spirit of the rules. What is inconsistent with the rules is that one person cannot make a decision on behalf of all the members of LACRALO and therefore in the absence of specific provisions to make such a decision, you will be exceeding your boundaries if you do so. In law such action is called "Ultra Vires".

  How can it be a mistake to let members decide? Are you saying that the members are not competent to make such a decision? Or are you afraid that the majority will decide that Humberto meets the requirement, which is what you don't want? Do you not trust the majority to make the right decision?
  I appreciate your point of view, but everything you say is based on a false premise. You think that I took a decision that never really existed. And this happened because people read what they want to read and not what I really wrote. I have no fear of anything. My duty is to be multi-partial. Impartiality exists only as a concept. I must serve the interests of the entire region and this means the interests of each ALSes too. 

  Your only duty is to chair the meetings according to the rules. The question of partiality or impartially does not arise. You are simply to apply the rules of meetings and debates.

  Now this is a problem. You are not "President". You are Chairperson. The use of the word president is misleading and you cannot assume that because you are Chairperson that you have any executive authority. Your role as Chairperson is spelled out in the Operating Principles of LACRALO at paragraph 4:

  "His duties will consist of, among other things, establish a link between the discussions in ALAC and the contributions made by the region, represent the region in the ALAC face-to-face meetings and chair the debates of the Assembly held through discussion lists, teleconferences and face-to-face meetings."
  Thanks for sharing your point of view about that.

  It’s not a point of view, Jose, it is what the rules say.

  No decision making here except in chairing meetings. Even your role as emissary does not allow you to make any decisions or declare any LACRALO positions that were not approved by the members of LACRALO. It seems clear to me that the rules are written this way because LACRALO is based on total participation which is a fundamental aspect of democracy. It also means that ICANN and LACRALO do not want any one-man decisions. They were established to get wide inputs. This is consistent with how ICANN operates (seeking inputs from users) and it is obvious that LACRALO was established in this spirit. According to the rules, this is not a one-man show. It is a collective operation. Let us therefore respect the rules and not flout the rules to make them what one man wants them to be.

  Again, I never took any decision. I agree on LACRALO is based on total participation which is a fundamental aspect of democracy

  You are in denial, Jose.

  To use your favorite term, there is no "power" in the hands of the chairperson, all the power is in the hands of the members collectively. The rules are very clear about this. As a member of LACRALO I am not going to sit by and allow you to make a precedents that goes against the spirit of LACRALO or ICANN which were set up for the specific purpose of gathering the opinions of internet users to influence ICANN policy.

First of all, I will ask you that speak to me with respect. For one reason and that is that I am a person with the same rights and obligations than you and I deserve respect.

Does respect mean that I cannot interpret the rules? Does it mean that I can’t say what the rules allow you to do or not to do. I do not appreciate your condescending manner.

You have to realize that you are working in an international organization and you can not use misplaced vocabulary. This translates into a lack of respect to the entire region. Is not the first time that you are out of place. I hope it is not repeated and that you become aware that you exceed your words. Your hand is faster than your brain. 

I realise the constraints of translation. Just as it is my problem to ensure what you mean, it is also your problem to ensure what I mean. Again I do not appreciate your condescending manner.

My favorite term is the base of the humanity: “Respect for others”.

Respect is not only in words but in actions. I think that your attempt to make a decision/ruling is an insult to LACRALO and deserves an apology from you.

Let me state here that the Secretariat is endowed with all the executive powers given and this is limited to administration, whereas the Chairperson has no executive powers at all. Again the role of the organisation is the reason for this because even the Secretariat cannot make such a decision. I would therefore, suggest that you get familiar with the rules in order to avoid a repeat of this kind of debacle. I suggest also that the members who made the rules were not hallucinating or in a drunken state at the time, they knew exactly what they were doing and they wrote exactly how they wanted the organisation to be managed. The "power" of LACRALO is in the Assembly and it is specified how the Assembly is constituted. 

  Let me tell you that the “debacle” was started because you did not read the email properly and you did not wait the English version before answer. And if you had some doubts the right way to do things is request a clarification. Some of the fellows sent me private emails asking me about the situation. 

  You speaking to me about the right way to do things? Come on! I will never be a push over and I will never allow anybody to intimidate me. Right now, you know that you have done wrong and you are now attempting to save face. Stand like a man and admit your mistakes, don’t try to distract by calling attention to my behaviour, which I may add is not out of place. You made a decision that Humberto did not meet the requirements and this affects the rights of everyone and anyone who may be away from their domicile. That was an outrageous decision to make and hence I not only objected, I revolted. Even the constitution of the mighty USA states that whenever a Government acts in the disinterests of the people, “it is their right, it is their duty” to rise up and form a new government. You cannot be throwing stones and expect no retaliation.

  ROK

  -----Original Message----- From: josefranciscoarce at gmail.com
  Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2012 8:59 AM
  To: lac-discuss-en at atlarge-lists.icann.org
  Subject: [lac-discuss-en] =? Iso-8859-1? Q? Confusion = F3n_-_ClarF3n_de_la_Regi =? == Iso-8859-1? Q? Ificaci = F3n? =

  [[--Translated text (es -> en)--]]

  Subject: =? Iso-8859-1? Q? Confusion = F3n_-_Clar F3n_de_la_Regi =? == Iso-8859-1? Q? Ificaci = F3n? =
  From: josefranciscoarce at gmail.com

  Dear,

  Just to clarify the situation so far seems confused about
  the issue of the application of ALAC, I will discuss briefly the situation
  raised.

  1) The majority of you have spoken out against what you
  The decision of the president called. I have that first error. I never
  decisin take some text and copy the last paragraph of my email, where
  you see, just say the word THINK. All that is
  alles drift incorrect. PRESIDENCY took no decision.

  * ... The Presidency considers that Mr. Humberto Carrasco NOT meet
  required residency requirements to be accepted as a candidate
  vlido within the election process that is open to cover
  representative office of LACRALO to ALAC * ...

  2) It is a mistake to go to a votacin agree or not a decisin
  that does not exist and never existed. This president never expressly
  against which the region is expressed and to take the decision. : What I will not
  and allow opondr me, voting is based on incorrect assumptions and
  against decisions that did not exist.

  3) Not having clear rules brings disadvantages. The powers of the
  estn presidency within a frame within a valid assembly. No
  ALUSIN there any permisin to make a decision of that kind,
  but there is no explicit negation thereof.

  With these points covering the cuestin aqusolo wanted to clarify, and
  tendroportunidad the day Monday to answer the questions you
  want. Again, the president never took a decisin nor opposed the
  votacin. Likewise consult with the legal staff of ICANN, and
  talk to everyone who should speak, cuestin also expressed in my email.
  I ask all who read the email again and if in doubt consult
  close range.

  With this aclaracin, hopefully clarification on Monday and fix everything.

  Regards

  JosArce
  _______________________________________________

  [[--Original text (es)
  http://mm.icann.org/transbot_archive/5da1099586.html
  --]]

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-- 
Ab. Arce, Jose Francisco
+ 54 9 351  6788920

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