[EURO-Discuss] Should EURALO sign a petition? Should you?
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond
ocl at gih.com
Fri Feb 23 17:14:28 UTC 2018
BTW -- all of what I've said below are my own personal thoughts, not EURALO.
On 23/02/2018 17:13, Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond wrote:
> Dear Michele,
>
> in a bit of a rush at present, but re: why so many people funded to
> come to ICANN meetings, it is all part of building a balanced
> multistakeholder community. In fact some of the people that were
> funded to come were also from governments and they brought back their
> experience to their government, which had positive political
> implications back there. These implications cannot be calculated by
> exact science, like a return on investment. But they have had an
> impact in other fora such as on the ITU discussions, OECD, and
> government stances out there.
> As for funding people to go to non-ICANN events, there are two reasons:
> 1. the people that go to these non-ICANN events are the community face
> of ICANN and have managed to improve ICANN's image greatly through
> engaging with the rest of the world
> 2. the people that have gone to these non-ICANN events have managed to
> bring more people in the ICANN processes that ended up in leadership
> positions.
>
> In fact with the GDPR we have a case in point about why ICANN needs to
> engage out there: whilst GDPR development was going on in Brussels for
> several years, nobody at ICANN listened when community members pointed
> out that it was important to be not only aware but engage in the
> discussions. ICANN's failure to address this because it was too busy
> looking at its own self image of IANA Stewardship Transition & ICANN
> Accountability, has now put it in front of a serious problem, namely
> that it is completely unprepared a few months from enforcement. So OK
> now we're working on GDPR, but what else is out there, waiting to bite
> us? There is a continuum of more stuff coming our way and having
> community members out there as both lookouts and emissaries is way
> cheaper than having a department of over 50 staff working on this. In
> fact, supporting the community to perform this task is a very
> economical way to do it as you don't need to pay them salaries.
>
> But I do agree, though, that there should be improvements to the
> accountability of who is sent out there, with "bad actors", those who
> are using the system for tourism, being blacklisted so they do not
> continue to abuse the system.
>
> Kindest regards,
>
> Olivier
>
> On 23/02/2018 13:15, Michele Neylon - Blacknight wrote:
>>
>> Well I’d like to see proper data showing the value that the
>> investment has brought.
>>
>> I also wonder why on earth ICANN funds so many people to attend
>> non-ICANN events
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Mr Michele Neylon
>>
>> Blacknight Solutions
>>
>> Hosting, Colocation & Domains
>>
>> https://www.blacknight.com/
>>
>> https://blacknight.blog/
>>
>> https://ceo.hosting/
>>
>> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072
>>
>> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
>>
>> -------------------------------
>>
>> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business
>> Park,Sleaty
>>
>> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,
>>
>> Ireland Company No.: 370845
>>
>> *From: *Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano at hotmail.com>
>> *Date: *Friday 23 February 2018 at 13:56
>> *To: *Michele Neylon <michele at blacknight.com>
>> *Cc: *S Van Gelder <svg at milathan.ltd>, Euralo
>> <euro-discuss at atlarge-lists.icann.org>
>> *Subject: *Re: [EURO-Discuss] Should EURALO sign a petition? Should you?
>>
>>
>>
>> Michele,
>>
>> I agree with you - the matter is very complex, that’s why I have
>> difficulties in reducing it to a petition yes/no. What we need to do
>> is to have a deeper analysis on the budget and the priorities.
>>
>> This said, my gut feeling is that the cuts do not apply in a fair way
>> neither geopolitically nor by stakeholder type. But this is a
>> consequence of he fact that there is no discussion about the
>> priorities. The big question is whether outreach, in particular
>> towards the less represented stakeholder (Internet users), is a
>> priority and whether geopolitical representation is a priority. If we
>> fail to stand up and bringing this issue to the table, with data and
>> convincing arguments and not just gut feeling or self-serving
>> arguments, then we cannot complain.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Roberto
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 23.02.2018, at 13:11, Michele Neylon - Blacknight
>> <michele at blacknight.com <mailto:michele at blacknight.com>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Roberto
>>
>>
>> There’s a much deeper issue – ICANN has spent a lot of money on a
>> load of different programmes but has very little data to measure
>> the ROI / KPIs etc
>>
>>
>>
>> If EURALO or anyone else wants to submit comments on the budget
>> cuts they should be pragmatic and realistic.
>>
>>
>>
>> There is no way that ICANN can keep spending money that it does
>> not have.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>>
>>
>> Michele
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Mr Michele Neylon
>>
>> Blacknight Solutions
>>
>> Hosting, Colocation & Domains
>>
>> https://www.blacknight.com/
>>
>> https://blacknight.blog/
>>
>> https://ceo.hosting/
>>
>> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072
>>
>> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
>>
>> -------------------------------
>>
>> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business
>> Park,Sleaty
>>
>> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265,
>>
>> Ireland Company No.: 370845
>>
>> *From: *EURO-Discuss
>> <euro-discuss-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org
>> <mailto:euro-discuss-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org>> on behalf
>> of Roberto Gaetano <roberto_gaetano at hotmail.com
>> <mailto:roberto_gaetano at hotmail.com>>
>> *Date: *Wednesday 21 February 2018 at 23:07
>> *To: *S Van Gelder <svg at milathan.ltd <mailto:svg at milathan.ltd>>
>> *Cc: *Euralo <euro-discuss at atlarge-lists.icann.org
>> <mailto:euro-discuss at atlarge-lists.icann.org>>
>> *Subject: *Re: [EURO-Discuss] Should EURALO sign a petition?
>> Should you?
>>
>>
>>
>> My personal opinion is that the question is not about the budget
>> cuts - if cuts are needed, let it be so - but how the cuts are
>> affecting the different stakeholders. The question for me is
>> whether the impact of the cuts on the different stakeholder
>> groups is fair or whether there is one part of the community that
>> is affected more than others.
>>
>> Still, the question of whether a petition is in order or not
>> holds. But on the other question, that is whether the affected
>> communities should raise the issue, my position is “Yes,
>> definitively”.
>>
>> Andrei is right. We need data. What is the foreseeable
>> consequence of this budget cut on internet users? My personal
>> opinion is that in the users community most of the outreach is
>> through the means that are now been reduced. This will simply
>> mean that we put further obstacles to user participation. But we
>> need more than just personal opinions if we want to build a case.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Roberto
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 21.02.2018, at 22:15, Stéphane Van Gelder - Milathan
>> <svg at milathan.ltd<mailto:svg at milathan.ltd>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Completely agree with Andrei. I oppose the signing of a
>> petition to oppose cuts. I would add to his reasons the fact
>> that the Board Chair and the CEO have both laid down
>> extremely well articulated arguments for why budget cuts are
>> needed. I would worry that a EURALO response through a
>> petition would not only look political, it would look immature.
>>
>>
>>
>> If we have strong arguments as to why some cuts should not
>> happen, let’s produce them through the usual ICANN discussion
>> channels open to us.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>
>>
>> Stéphane
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 21 Feb 2018, at 21:24, Andrei Kolesnikov
>> <andrei at rol.ru<mailto:andrei at rol.ru>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm against signing any petition
>> onchange.org<http://change.org/>, because it sounds
>> political. If community is against the cut, this must be
>> articulated with facts, numbers and names. I don't like
>> personnel cost increase, but this is another issue. --andrei
>>
>>
>>
>> 2018-02-21 20:06 GMT+03:00 Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond
>> <ocl at gih.com<mailto:ocl at gih.com>>:
>>
>> Dear colleagues,
>>
>> on yesterday's EURALO monthly call, the following
>> Action Item was recorded.
>>
>> :
>>
>> Olivier
>> Crepin-Leblond<https://community.icann.org/display/%7Eolivier.crepin-leblond> Olivier
>> to follow up on the EURALO mailing list on the
>> suggestion from Oksana for EURALO support the
>> petition against reduction of the ICANN
>> fellowship as well as to write an EURALO
>> statement against the CROP elimination.
>>
>>
>> As you know, the ICANN FY19 budget is undergoing to
>> reduction. This will mean that some programmes are
>> frozen, whilst others are actually reduced. The
>> current draft of the program is showing drastic cuts
>> in community engagement and policy. The Fellowship is
>> being slashed, and so is the NextGen program. The
>> Community Regional Outreach Pilot Program (CROP)
>> which was confirmed into the main budget as it was
>> seen as being so helpful, is being cancelled
>> altogether. It is a terrible state of affairs, as it
>> appears that ICANN has targeted community initiatives
>> for outreach and engagement to a much greater extent
>> that other programmes and the cuts, as a percentage
>> of the budget for outreach and engagement initiatives
>> are way larger than for other programmes.
>>
>> You might has seen a petition out there, entitled
>> "Stop the ICANN Budget Cuts and Save the Fellowship
>> Program!"
>> On last night's EURALO call, Oksana Prykhodko asked
>> whether EURALO could be inclined to sign this petition:
>> https://www.change.org/p/icann-stop-the-icann-budget-cuts-and-save-the-fellowship-program
>>
>> The signing of a petition is highly unusual for a
>> RALO. I can recall several occurrences of a RALO
>> releasing its own Statement. I can also recall EURALO
>> supporting EuroDIG as a partner - and this translates
>> to the EURALO Chair (previously Wolf Ludwig and now
>> yours truly) being active in the organisation of
>> EuroDIG. If my memory serves me right, the only time
>> EURALO has signed a Petition, might be the signature
>> for support of NetMundial outcomes. Perhaps can Wolf
>> help with other potential occurences?
>>
>> At the end of the day, there are no rules on whether
>> EURALO may or may not sign this petition. So the
>> decision is in your hands, the EURALO members.
>>
>> Should EURALO sign the petition?
>> Should your ALS sign the petition?
>>
>> Kindest regards,
>>
>> Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond
>> EURALO Chair
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> EURO-Discuss mailing list
>> EURO-Discuss at atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:EURO-Discuss at atlarge-lists.icann.org>
>> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss
>>
>> Homepage for the
>> region: http://www.euralo.org<http://www.euralo.org/>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Andrey Kolesnikov
>>
>> RIPN.NET<http://ripn.net/>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> EURO-Discuss mailing list
>> EURO-Discuss at atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:EURO-Discuss at atlarge-lists.icann.org>
>> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss
>>
>> Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> EURO-Discuss mailing list
>> EURO-Discuss at atlarge-lists.icann.org<mailto:EURO-Discuss at atlarge-lists.icann.org>
>> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss
>>
>> Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> EURO-Discuss mailing list
>> EURO-Discuss at atlarge-lists.icann.org
>> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss
>>
>> Homepage for the region: http://www.euralo.org
>
> --
> Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD
> http://www.gih.com/ocl.html
--
Olivier MJ Crépin-Leblond, PhD
http://www.gih.com/ocl.html
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/pipermail/euro-discuss/attachments/20180223/1bf298f6/attachment-0001.html>
More information about the EURO-Discuss
mailing list