[EURO-Discuss] R: RE : Article 29 Party Write to ICANN again

Volker Greimann vgreimann at key-systems.net
Mon Feb 3 15:51:13 UTC 2014


Ah, now you touched on the second part of the problem. The agreement has 
a severability clause that basically says, that a term that _is held_ to 
be in violation of local law is invalid. We argue that this means it 
already is, ICANN seems to be taking the position that we have to be 
sued over it first.

If we want out of that obligation prior to that due to our 
interpretation of national law, we need the waiver that ICANN seems to 
be granting only if we only break the law a little. Only one waiver has 
been granted and it seems this was only because that registrar did not 
want the storage of data to end at the end of the agreement, but one 
year after, as opposed to two years, as the data retention spec demands.

So if you ask for a waiver for the full legal requirement, it will take 
months and months to get it, if ever; if you ask for a partial 
reduction, it seems to work rather quickly. Add to that that the 
application for the waiver that was granted was rather thin compared to 
those applications for waivers that were applied for but not yet granted 
and start seeing a pattern where the desired result drives the process.

Volker


> I am not a lawyer, but for the little I know in Italy law trumps private
> contractual agreements.
> In other words, contract clauses that are not according the law are null and
> void.
> Shouldn't this solve the matter?
> R.
>
>
>> -----Messaggio originale-----
>> Da: euro-discuss-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:euro-discuss-
>> bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org] Per conto di Michele Neylon - Blacknight
>> Inviato: lunedì 3 febbraio 2014 13:07
>> A: Volker Greimann; euro-discuss at atlarge-lists.icann.org
>> Oggetto: Re: [EURO-Discuss] RE : Article 29 Party Write to ICANN again
>>
>> Volker
>>
>> As usual you manage to put into writing much more clearly what I'd like to
>> say.
>>
>> The current situation as far as I am concerned is simple.
>>
>> As an Irish company we must abide by Irish law.
>>
>> The Irish statute book has legislation on data privacy.
>>
>> We have a DPC.
>>
>> Both the DPC and the statutes clearly state that we cannot retain the data
>>
>> Yet ICANN is forcing us all to jump through hoops
>>
>> This situation is unacceptable.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Michele
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mr Michele Neylon
>> Blacknight Solutions
>> Hosting & Colocation, Domains
>> http://www.blacknight.co/
>> http://blog.blacknight.com/
>> http://www.technology.ie
>> Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072
>> Locall: 1850 929 929
>> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
>> Fax. +353 (0) 1 4811 763
>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/mneylon
>> -------------------------------
>> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business
> Park,Sleaty
>> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland  Company No.: 370845
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: euro-discuss-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:euro-discuss-
>> bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Volker Greimann
>> Sent: Monday, February 3, 2014 11:57 AM
>> To: euro-discuss at atlarge-lists.icann.org
>> Subject: Re: [EURO-Discuss] RE : Article 29 Party Write to ICANN again
>>
>> Any future regulation currently being negotiated has no impact whatsoever
>> on the current legal circumstances.
>>
>> Frankly it is ridiculous to receive a feedback question of "How long _are_
> you
>> allowed to stora the data then?" from ICANN when the waiver request
>> clearly states that no storage beyond the service provision is permitted.
>>
>> Similarly ridiculous is the fact that ICANN is ignoring the Art. 29
> working party
>> letters with the reference that they are "just an advisory body", when
> every
>> single member of this body is the authoritative party responsible for
>> enforcing data protection in its EU member state. So would ICANN rather
> see
>> the same letter being sent from each individual member of the working
>> party?
>>
>> Volker
>>
>>
>> Am 29.01.2014 22:31, schrieb Nigel Hickson:
>>> JJ and colleagues
>>>
>>> Good evening; the fact (as noted) that 1995 EU Directive has been
>>> implemented in such varied ways (essentially one was implementing EU
>>> principles in national legislation) is a fact in the challenge of
>>> having one specific "carve out". The proposed Regulation (on Data
>>> Protection) being negotiated in Brussels could make a difference on
>>> this (as a Regulation has direct effect across EU-28).
>>>
>>> Best
>>>
>>> Nigel
>>>
>>> On 1/29/14 10:52 AM, "jjs" <jjs at dyalog.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> @Michele +1. It would indeed be a fallacy to consider that each
>>>> Member State of the EU is free to interpret EU Directives to suit its
>>>> own purposes.
>>>>
>>>> For colleagues from horizons other than the EU, a small footnote may
>>>> be
>>>> useful: a Directive is not unilaterally imposed by the European
>>>> Commission, but has been trashed out collectively, and thoroughly,
>>>> with all the Member States. The "transposition" into national
>>>> legislation is required for a Directive to have legal effect in that
>>>> country, but is by no means open to alteration or corruption, once it
>>>> has been agreed upon by all 28 Member States.
>>>>
>>>> The apparent ambiguity in parts of the English-language mass media
>>>> comes
>>> >from the fact that some of them are owned by individuals who are not
>>>> citizens of an EU Member State (e.g. R. Murdoch, originally an
>>>> Australian, assumed US citizenship in 1985) and/or pursue their own
>>>> agendas.
>>>>
>>>> Jean-Jacques.
>>>>
>>>> -------- Message d'origine --------
>>>> De : Michele Neylon - Blacknight <michele at blacknight.com> Date :
>>>> 29/01/2014  17:09  (GMT+08:00) A :
>>>> euro-discuss at atlarge-lists.icann.org
>>>> Objet : [EURO-Discuss] Article 29 Party Write to ICANN again
>>>>
>>>> http://michele.cat/eh
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Mr Michele Neylon
>>>> Blacknight Solutions
>>>> Hosting & Colocation, Domains
>>>> http://www.blacknight.co/
>>>> http://blog.blacknight.com/
>>>> http://www.technology.ie
>>>> Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072
>>>> Locall: 1850 929 929
>>>> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
>>>> Fax. +353 (0) 1 4811 763
>>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/mneylon
>>>> -------------------------------
>>>> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business
>>>> Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland  Company No.: 370845
>>>>
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>> --
>> Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
>>
>> Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
>>
>> Volker A. Greimann
>> - Rechtsabteilung -
>>
>> Key-Systems GmbH
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>> --------------------------------------------
>>
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> us.
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Volker A. Greimann
>> - legal department -
>>
>> Key-Systems GmbH
>> Im Oberen Werk 1
>> 66386 St. Ingbert
>> Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
>> Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
>> Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net
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>>
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-- 
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -

Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net

Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com

Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
www.facebook.com/KeySystems
www.twitter.com/key_systems

Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534

Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu

Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.

--------------------------------------------

Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Best regards,

Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -

Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: vgreimann at key-systems.net

Web: www.key-systems.net / www.RRPproxy.net
www.domaindiscount24.com / www.BrandShelter.com

Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
www.facebook.com/KeySystems
www.twitter.com/key_systems

CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534

Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
www.keydrive.lu

This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.





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