[At-Large] - Price caps - was: The Case for Regulatory Capture at ICANN | Review Signal Blog

Tue Jul 2 11:59:51 UTC 2019

 Circle Id and   Arstechnica the story as well

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2019/07/icann-eliminates-org-domain-price-caps-despite-lopsided-opposition/

Glenn McKnight
NARALO Secretariat
mcknight.glenn at gmail.com
http://toronto.ieee.ca/
IEEE Toronto SIGHT Chair
glenn.mcknight at ieee.org
skype  gmcknight
twitter gmcknight
289-830 6259
.

On Mon, Jul 1, 2019 at 9:51 PM <bzs at theworld.com> wrote:

>
> Roberto,
>
> You raise good questions but it may not be one or the other, MSM or
> not.
>
> Reforms are possible also.
>
> As are mixed systems which I believe ICANN claimed to be working
> towards for at least a while. Isn't that why At Large was formed? It
> just never itself much evolved into an "at large" organization and
> (probably because of that) never got much influence within ICANN.
>
> Governance structures per se are a complicated topic and it would be
> irresponsible for me or anyone else to just off-the-cuff suggest other
> structures in a discussion like this.
>
> But I have, at ICANN meetings addressing people involved, for example
> suggested their NomCom operate with greater transparency. Such as
> listing the candidates as is done with some of the non-NomCom seats
> (ASO/AC, IETF.)
>
> TBH it was met with derision and was explained to me like I was a
> child why that would be absolutely impossible. Mostly weak reasons as
> others listening seemed to agree later. They didn't necessarily agree
> with me 100% on every point, but they did agree I was just shrugged
> off, "they don't have to answer questions like that, and they won't as
> you just saw." In an instant I became Paul Footy.
>
> There must be some middle ground but it would take a lot of thought.
>
> The goal wouldn't be to eliminate the so-called "stakeholders", just
> to rebalance the processes.
>
> On July 1, 2019 at 19:36 roberto_gaetano at hotmail.com (Roberto Gaetano)
> wrote:
>  > Hi Barry
>  > I believe that the picture drawn by Paul R. Letho is a caricature
> rather than an objective picture of the multi-stakeholderism - but this is
> by and large irrelevant for what I want to say.
>  >
>  > Let’s assume that we embrace his theories and we get rid of the
> multi-stakeholder model. What happens?
>  > If I understand correctly, according to Paul R. Letho the stakeholders
> become again what they were in first place, i.e. lobbyists. So, by
> definition of lobbyist they will lobby somebody to get their interests
> taken care of. My first question is: whom are they lobbying?
>  > Translated into ICANN world, the only “who” I see is the ICANN Board.
> So, the second question: who are the ICANN Directors and how do they get
> elected? Up to now, according to the multi-stakeholder model, some are
> elected/nominated by different stakeholders - pardon me, lobbyists - while
> others are selected by the NomCom, that I assume should disappear if we get
> rid of the multi-stakeholder model, because its composition is again an
> instance of multi-stakeholderism.
>  > So, in short, how can ICANN get rid od the supposedly failing
> multi-stakeholder model and go back to what Paul R. Letho defines
> “democracy”?
>  > Or, in simple words, how would a non-multi-stakeholder model be
> designed and implemented for ICANN?
>  > Cheers,
>  > Roberto
>  >
>  >
>  > > On 01.07.2019, at 00:36, bzs at theworld.com wrote:
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > Before it was removed in November 2016 the "Criticisms" section of
>  > > Wikipedia's "Multistakeholder Governance Model" read:
>  > >
>  > >  Criticism of multistakeholderism comes from Paul R. Lehto,
>  > >  J.D.{{Citation needed|date=March 2014}}, who fears that in
>  > >  multistakeholderism, those who would be lobbyists become
>  > >  legislators, and nobody else has a vote. Lehto states that "In a
>  > >  democracy, it is a scandal when lobbyists have so much influence
>  > >  that they write the drafts of laws. But in multistakeholder
>  > >  situations they take that scandal to a whole new level: those who
>  > >  would be lobbyists in a democracy (corporations, experts, civil
>  > >  society) become the legislators themselves, and dispense with all
>  > >  public elections and not only write the laws but pass them, enforce
>  > >  them, and in some cases even set up courts of arbitration that are
>  > >  usually conditioned on waiving the right to go to the court system
>  > >  set up by democracies. A vote is just a minimum requirement of
>  > >  justice. Without a vote, law is just force inflicted by the wealthy
>  > >  and powerful. Multistakeholderism is a coup d’etat against democracy
>  > >  by those who would merely be lobbyists in a democratic system.
>  > >
>  > >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Multistakeholder_governance_model&diff=768793583&oldid=750897618
>  > >
>  > > Sound familiar?
>  > >
>  > > It doesn't even touch upon how those lobbyist/legislators are chosen
>  > > except by implication.
>  > >
>  > > Sometimes summarized as:
>  > >
>  > >  Multistakeholderism: A governance structure of, by, and for the
>  > >  lobbyists.
>  > >
>  > > --
>  > >        -Barry Shein
>  > >
>  > > Software Tool & Die    | bzs at TheWorld.com             |
> http://www.TheWorld.com
>  > > Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD       | 800-THE-WRLD
>  > > The World: Since 1989  | A Public Information Utility | *oo*
>  >
>
> --
>         -Barry Shein
>
> Software Tool & Die    | bzs at TheWorld.com             |
> http://www.TheWorld.com
> Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD       | 800-THE-WRLD
> The World: Since 1989  | A Public Information Utility | *oo*
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