<div dir="ltr"> Circle Id and Arstechnica the story as well <div><br><div><a href="https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2019/07/icann-eliminates-org-domain-price-caps-despite-lopsided-opposition/">https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2019/07/icann-eliminates-org-domain-price-caps-despite-lopsided-opposition/</a></div><div><br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr">Glenn McKnight</div><div dir="ltr">NARALO Secretariat<br><a href="mailto:mcknight.glenn@gmail.com" target="_blank">mcknight.glenn@gmail.com</a></div><div dir="ltr"><a href="http://toronto.ieee.ca/" target="_blank">http://toronto.ieee.ca/</a></div><div dir="ltr">IEEE Toronto SIGHT Chair </div><div dir="ltr"><a href="mailto:glenn.mcknight@ieee.org" target="_blank">glenn.mcknight@ieee.org</a><br>skype gmcknight<br>twitter gmcknight</div><div>289-830 6259<br>.</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Jul 1, 2019 at 9:51 PM <<a href="mailto:bzs@theworld.com">bzs@theworld.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br>
Roberto,<br>
<br>
You raise good questions but it may not be one or the other, MSM or<br>
not.<br>
<br>
Reforms are possible also.<br>
<br>
As are mixed systems which I believe ICANN claimed to be working<br>
towards for at least a while. Isn't that why At Large was formed? It<br>
just never itself much evolved into an "at large" organization and<br>
(probably because of that) never got much influence within ICANN.<br>
<br>
Governance structures per se are a complicated topic and it would be<br>
irresponsible for me or anyone else to just off-the-cuff suggest other<br>
structures in a discussion like this.<br>
<br>
But I have, at ICANN meetings addressing people involved, for example<br>
suggested their NomCom operate with greater transparency. Such as<br>
listing the candidates as is done with some of the non-NomCom seats<br>
(ASO/AC, IETF.)<br>
<br>
TBH it was met with derision and was explained to me like I was a<br>
child why that would be absolutely impossible. Mostly weak reasons as<br>
others listening seemed to agree later. They didn't necessarily agree<br>
with me 100% on every point, but they did agree I was just shrugged<br>
off, "they don't have to answer questions like that, and they won't as<br>
you just saw." In an instant I became Paul Footy.<br>
<br>
There must be some middle ground but it would take a lot of thought.<br>
<br>
The goal wouldn't be to eliminate the so-called "stakeholders", just<br>
to rebalance the processes.<br>
<br>
On July 1, 2019 at 19:36 <a href="mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com" target="_blank">roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com</a> (Roberto Gaetano) wrote:<br>
> Hi Barry<br>
> I believe that the picture drawn by Paul R. Letho is a caricature rather than an objective picture of the multi-stakeholderism - but this is by and large irrelevant for what I want to say.<br>
> <br>
> Let’s assume that we embrace his theories and we get rid of the multi-stakeholder model. What happens?<br>
> If I understand correctly, according to Paul R. Letho the stakeholders become again what they were in first place, i.e. lobbyists. So, by definition of lobbyist they will lobby somebody to get their interests taken care of. My first question is: whom are they lobbying?<br>
> Translated into ICANN world, the only “who” I see is the ICANN Board. So, the second question: who are the ICANN Directors and how do they get elected? Up to now, according to the multi-stakeholder model, some are elected/nominated by different stakeholders - pardon me, lobbyists - while others are selected by the NomCom, that I assume should disappear if we get rid of the multi-stakeholder model, because its composition is again an instance of multi-stakeholderism.<br>
> So, in short, how can ICANN get rid od the supposedly failing multi-stakeholder model and go back to what Paul R. Letho defines “democracy”?<br>
> Or, in simple words, how would a non-multi-stakeholder model be designed and implemented for ICANN?<br>
> Cheers,<br>
> Roberto<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> > On 01.07.2019, at 00:36, <a href="mailto:bzs@theworld.com" target="_blank">bzs@theworld.com</a> wrote:<br>
> > <br>
> > <br>
> > Before it was removed in November 2016 the "Criticisms" section of<br>
> > Wikipedia's "Multistakeholder Governance Model" read:<br>
> > <br>
> > Criticism of multistakeholderism comes from Paul R. Lehto,<br>
> > J.D.{{Citation needed|date=March 2014}}, who fears that in<br>
> > multistakeholderism, those who would be lobbyists become<br>
> > legislators, and nobody else has a vote. Lehto states that "In a<br>
> > democracy, it is a scandal when lobbyists have so much influence<br>
> > that they write the drafts of laws. But in multistakeholder<br>
> > situations they take that scandal to a whole new level: those who<br>
> > would be lobbyists in a democracy (corporations, experts, civil<br>
> > society) become the legislators themselves, and dispense with all<br>
> > public elections and not only write the laws but pass them, enforce<br>
> > them, and in some cases even set up courts of arbitration that are<br>
> > usually conditioned on waiving the right to go to the court system<br>
> > set up by democracies. A vote is just a minimum requirement of<br>
> > justice. Without a vote, law is just force inflicted by the wealthy<br>
> > and powerful. Multistakeholderism is a coup d’etat against democracy<br>
> > by those who would merely be lobbyists in a democratic system.<br>
> > <br>
> > <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Multistakeholder_governance_model&diff=768793583&oldid=750897618" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Multistakeholder_governance_model&diff=768793583&oldid=750897618</a><br>
> > <br>
> > Sound familiar?<br>
> > <br>
> > It doesn't even touch upon how those lobbyist/legislators are chosen<br>
> > except by implication.<br>
> > <br>
> > Sometimes summarized as:<br>
> > <br>
> > Multistakeholderism: A governance structure of, by, and for the<br>
> > lobbyists.<br>
> > <br>
> > -- <br>
> > -Barry Shein<br>
> > <br>
> > Software Tool & Die | bzs@TheWorld.com | <a href="http://www.TheWorld.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.TheWorld.com</a><br>
> > Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD | 800-THE-WRLD<br>
> > The World: Since 1989 | A Public Information Utility | *oo*<br>
> <br>
<br>
-- <br>
-Barry Shein<br>
<br>
Software Tool & Die | bzs@TheWorld.com | <a href="http://www.TheWorld.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.TheWorld.com</a><br>
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD | 800-THE-WRLD<br>
The World: Since 1989 | A Public Information Utility | *oo*<br>
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