[At-Large] R: [ALAC] ICANN Launches Accountability Structures Expert Panel, Seeks Community Input

Roberto Gaetano roberto_gaetano at hotmail.com
Tue Sep 18 22:32:26 UTC 2012 

I agree with Alx about the need to have external auditors, but also with the points raised by jjs.
If there is a formal ALAC document I would concentrate on the lack of diversity.
It reminds me of a case in the recent past where I have been asked to choose among three candidates, shortlisted via an international call for candidates, who were from the West Coast, East Coast, and South. Of course, US West Coast, US East Coast, and Southern US.
Cheers,
R.


-----Messaggio originale-----
Da: at-large-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:at-large-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org] Per conto di Evan Leibovitch
Inviato: martedì 18 settembre 2012 23:41
A: Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro
Cc: Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch; ALAC Working List; At-Large Worldwide
Oggetto: Re: [At-Large] [ALAC] ICANN Launches Accountability Structures Expert Panel, Seeks Community Input

Hi,

I did not see the original message from Alexandro until it was quoted here by Sala.

Both your replies are very reasonable and well stated. The issue of capture is especially important. Consider my mind changed on the issue.

- Evan


On 18 September 2012 14:55, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote:

> Evan.
>
> You are correct about the level of skills, talents that are already 
> within ICANN itself. However for the purposes of having a review, kind 
> of like an "auditing", there is always the option to conduct "internal 
> audits" and "ex internal audits".
>
> Whilst having a review done "Inhouse" has its uses, for a body that 
> facilitates objectives pertaining to the key internet policy spaces 
> where the world is the "beneficiary", it follows that there is a need 
> for a review to be carried out "externally".
>
> The Accountability and Structure Review process is a critical aspect 
> of evaluating and assessing ICANN's operations so that much like 
> having a mirror, it can work towards constant improvements, development and growth.
> If the pool of Experts conducting the review were sourced from inside, 
> there is a far greater likelihood that due to "friendships, networks, 
> shared interests etc" that the Report could be "biased". In a global 
> policy environment, structures, processes have far greater legal, 
> equitable, socio-cultural, economic, political impact on the quality 
> of policies that are produced.
>
> This no doubt includes substantive technical input, enabling 
> mechanisms to continually allow for diversity into the policy spaces 
> etc. The Affirmation of Commitments and Bylaws recognise this.
>
> The issue is not about ICANN trusting its community because it already 
> does through the enormous work in various Supporting organisations, 
> advisory committees, working groups, task forces, cross constituency 
> groups etc. The integrity of the evaluation lies in the ability to 
> minimise risks of apprehension of bias, reasonable bias, bias etc.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Sala
>
> On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 5:55 AM, Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch < 
> apisan at unam.mx> wrote:
>
> > Evan,
> >
> > I'll take the daring step of disagreeing with you. Calling on 
> > external experts for the Accountability Structures panel is 
> > consistent with an institutional design that moves away from the 
> > potential for capture, shop blindness, inbreeding, and other ills 
> > that can arise from the lack of independent analysis. Since the 2003 
> > reform we started to make sure opportunities for reasonable 
> > challenge and redress of decisions be part
> of
> > the design, while avoiding in turn the capture of those processes by 
> > the politics of delay and by parties which are not committed to the 
> > result
> yet
> > may slow it eternally or distort it seriously.
> >
> > At the same time I will state that I am unhappy, as others have 
> > already stated, with the specific integration of the panel. Yet we 
> > have ourselves to blame as much as any other if this integration is 
> > the result of some horse-trading. If it is the case, it shows that 
> > we have not been able to get rid of *that* scourge fast enough.
> >
> > Alejandro Pisanty
> >
> >
> >
> > ! !! !!! !!!!
> > NEW PHONE NUMBER - NUEVO NÚMERO DE TELÉFONO
> >
> >
> >
> > +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD
> >
> > +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO
> >
> > SMS +525541444475
> >      Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
> > UNAM, Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
> >
> > Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
> > LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
> > Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn,
> > http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
> > Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
> > ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
> > .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
> >
> > ________________________________________
> > Desde: at-large-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org [ 
> > at-large-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org] en nombre de Evan 
> > Leibovitch [ evan at telly.org] Enviado el: martes, 18 de septiembre de 
> > 2012 12:09
> > Hasta: Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro
> > CC: JJS; ALAC Working List; At-Large Worldwide
> > Asunto: Re: [At-Large] [ALAC] ICANN Launches Accountability 
> > Structures Expert Panel, Seeks Community Input
> >
> > Personally, I am amazed that ICANN feels the need to go "external" 
> > when
> it
> > has such a massive pool of diverse, experienced expertise within its 
> > community.
> >
> > Historically, the use by ICANN of outside "expertise" has appeared 
> > to me
> to
> > be an indication that the organization does not trust its own 
> > community perform such an evaluation. It's more evidence that ICANN 
> > as a body fears its volunteers rather than exploits their 
> > perspectives. I am much more in favour of having outside resources 
> > available to a community review, than
> to
> > put leadership of this effort in the hands of people without diverse 
> > backgrounds or experience in ICANN culture.
> >
> > - Evan
> >
> >
> >
> > On 18 September 2012 05:40, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < 
> > salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks Jean-Jacques,
> > >
> > > Thank you for your email and analysis. I fully agree with the 
> > > wisdom of your counsel and the analysis, rationale behind the call 
> > > for the ALAC
> to
> > > make a Statement in this regard.
> > >
> > >
> > > Kind Regards,
> > > Sala
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 9:31 PM, JJS <jjs.global at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > *Alan, Salanieta, All,*
> > > > *
> > > > *
> > > > *sorry, you received 2 emails from me on the same subject. The 
> > > > first
> > one,
> > > > incomplete, was sent by mistake, so please read the second.*
> > > > *
> > > > *
> > > > *Jean-Jacques.
> > > > *
> > > > 2012/9/18 Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro < 
> > > > salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > >> On Tue, Sep 18, 2012 at 9:00 PM, JJS <jjs.global at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> *Hello Alan,*
> > > >>> *
> > > >>> *
> > > >>> *thank you for forwarding this information. Prior to making 
> > > >>> any individual comment on an open ICANN online space, I wish 
> > > >>> to submit that:*
> > > >>> *- this issue may deserve an ALAC reaction as such,*
> > > >>> *- at the very least, the ALAC should underline that*
> > > >>> *    - the panel lacks gender and cultural diversity (3 White
> males,
> > > even
> > > >>> if one of them hails from South Africa)*
> > > >>> *    - all 3 come from the same mold (common law, corporate
> affairs,
> > > >>> English)*
> > > >>> *    - our observations are not aimed at the individuals, or their
> > > >>> personal
> > > >>>
> > > >>> value, but at principles enshrined in the By-laws, recommended 
> > > >>> in
> the
> > > >>> "Improving Institutional Confidence" document of the (now
> > > >>>
> > > >> I agree!
> > > >>
> > > >>>  *
> > > >>> 2012/9/14 Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> > <
> > > >>>
> > http://www.icann.org/en/news/announcements/announcement-11sep12-en.h
> > tm
> > > >
> > > >>> >
> > > http://www.icann.org/en/news/announcements/announcement-11sep12-en
> > > .htm
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> > ICANN Launches Accountability Structures Expert Panel, Seeks
> > > Community
> > > >>> > Input
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> > 11 September 2012
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> > In fulfillment of ATRT Recommendations 23 and 25, calling 
> > > >>> > for a review of ICANN's Accountability Structures, ICANN has 
> > > >>> > identified
> > an
> > > >>> > international panel of experts to serve on the 
> > > >>> > Accountability Structures Expert Panel (ASEP). Biographies 
> > > >>> > of the experts are available at 
> > > >>> > <http://www.icann.org/en/news/in-focus/accountability/asep>
> > > >>> > http://www.icann.org/en/news/in-focus/accountability/asep.
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> > The ASEP is interested in hearing from the ICANN community
> > regarding
> > > >>> > your thoughts on ICANN's accountability structures, 
> > > >>> > particularly
> > the
> > > >>> > Reconsideration process and the Independent Review process, 
> > > >>> > and whether they can or should be modified. Your comments 
> > > >>> > and inputs
> > can
> > > >>> > be submitted to <mailto:ASEP at ICANN.org>ASEP at ICANN.org and
> comments
> > > >>> > can be viewed at
> > > >>> > <http://forum.icann.org/lists/asep/>
> > > http://forum.icann.org/lists/asep/
> > > >>> .
> > > >>> > Please provide your input by 1 October 2012.
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> > The ASEP will be posting updates regarding its work, with a
> > detailed
> > > >>> > project plan expected by mid-September. All information 
> > > >>> > regarding
> > the
> > > >>> > ASEP will be accessible from the ASEP page at 
> > > >>> > <http://www.icann.org/en/news/in-focus/accountability/asep>
> > > >>> > http://www.icann.org/en/news/in-focus/accountability/asep.
> > > >>> > _______________________________________________
> > > >>> > ALAC mailing list
> > > >>> > ALAC at atlarge-lists.icann.org 
> > > >>> > https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> > At-Large Online: http://www.atlarge.icann.org ALAC Working 
> > > >>> > Wiki:
> > > >>> >
> > > >>>
> > >
> >
> https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/At-Large+Advisory+Committe
> e+(ALAC)
> > > >>> >
> > > >>> _______________________________________________
> > > >>> ALAC mailing list
> > > >>> ALAC at atlarge-lists.icann.org
> > > >>> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac
> > > >>>
> > > >>> At-Large Online: http://www.atlarge.icann.org ALAC Working 
> > > >>> Wiki:
> > > >>>
> > >
> >
> https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/At-Large+Advisory+Committe
> e+(ALAC)
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala P.O. Box 17862 Suva Fiji
> > > >>
> > > >> Twitter: @SalanietaT
> > > >> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
> > > P.O. Box 17862
> > > Suva
> > > Fiji
> > >
> > > Twitter: @SalanietaT
> > > Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
> > > Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > ALAC mailing list
> > > ALAC at atlarge-lists.icann.org
> > > https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac
> > >
> > > At-Large Online: http://www.atlarge.icann.org
> > > ALAC Working Wiki:
> > >
> >
> https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/At-Large+Advisory+Committee+(ALAC)
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Evan Leibovitch
> > Toronto Canada
> >
> > Em: evan at telly dot org
> > Sk: evanleibovitch
> > Tw: el56
> > _______________________________________________
> > At-Large mailing list
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> >
> > At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Salanieta Tamanikaiwaimaro aka Sala
> P.O. Box 17862
> Suva
> Fiji
>
> Twitter: @SalanietaT
> Skype:Salanieta.Tamanikaiwaimaro
> Fiji Cell: +679 998 2851
> _______________________________________________
> ALAC mailing list
> ALAC at atlarge-lists.icann.org
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>
> At-Large Online: http://www.atlarge.icann.org
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> https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/At-Large+Advisory+Committee+(ALAC)
>



-- 
Evan Leibovitch
Toronto Canada

Em: evan at telly dot org
Sk: evanleibovitch
Tw: el56
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