[ALAC] [ALAC-Announce] VOTE ANNOUNCEMENT: ALS Application (307) Internet Society Rural Development Special Interest Group

Mon Sep 23 20:30:08 UTC 2019

Hello Dev,

This an interesting a path we have walked through in the past.

I think a fundamental ask would be whether legal existence and
administrative maintenance overhead involved in having such
standalone/dedicated set-up will be bearable but more importantly whether
it will sustainable.

Regards
Sent from my mobile
Kindly excuse brevity and typos

On Mon, 23 Sep 2019, 15:09 Dev Anand Teelucksingh, <devtee at gmail.com> wrote:

> Good to see a discussion on possible At-Large models. A possible
> alternative :
>
> ICANN establishes At-Large Chapters in each country similiar in concept to
> Rotary or ISOC chapters.
>
> - each chapter is open to anyone interested in ICANN from the interests of
> end users.
> - ICANN can set guidelines for each chapter - some examples: must do
> certain level of outreach, have term limits, have a public F2F awareness
> meeting to recruit new persons. ICANN would need to provide some funding to
> make this happen but this would be small and the chapters can account to
> ICANN for expenses.
> - ICANN can provide the tools (mailing lists, conference tools) to
> facilitate online discussions.
> - Because there is a consistent brand - At-Large Chapter in the country,
> marketing/promoting is greatly simplified and easier to explain.
> - Given that such chapters are virtual, it makes chapters easy to
> establish with only a few individuals from a country without the challenges
> of having formal organisations with bylaws and pay taxes.
>
> So an At-Large chapter ends up being a virtual ALS in each country in the
> ALAC/RALO/ALS model.
>
> The RALOs will consist of the chapters from each country in the region
> with each chapter electing two persons to coordinate the RALO work. The
> RALO will be better positioned to better fulfil its MOUs with ICANN and the
> RALO and ALAC would not have to bother with analysing whether an
> organisation meets the criteria of an ALS.
>
> The At-Large chapters will be better able to network with At-Large
> chapters in other countries and build consensus on policy issues and help
> promote and grow the At-Large Community.
>
> Dev Anand
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 2:31 PM Judith Hellerstein <
> judith at jhellerstein.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Kaili
>> Very interesting analysis. I support it. You seem to have given it a lot
>> of thought
>>
>> Best
>> Judith
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> Judith at jhellerstein.com
>> Skype ID:Judithhellerstein
>>
>> On Sep 20, 2019, at 1:27 PM, Kaili Kan <kankaili at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Very interesting discussion indeed, and certainly a challenging issue.
>>
>> As I understand, end-users could be categorized in many many ways, e.g.,
>> by gender, by age, by religion, by nationality, by regions, etc.  That is,
>> it is a multi-dimensional problem per se.  However, for the purpose of
>> organizing the billions into groups, we did it in only one dimension, i.e.,
>> according to geographic locality (ALSs), then into regions (RALOs), and
>> then into global (ALAC).  This is because in the real world, nations,
>> language and culture play a dominating role in our life.  Each locality
>> represents a (roughly) unified such factors, while nations and regions
>> represent such similarities in a larger scale.
>>
>> However, this on-dimensional categorization cannot rule out other
>> dimensions, or (special) interests, neither the following special interest
>> groups (SIGs).  Can we add other dimensions?  Of course we can.
>> However, that will make our organization into a (multi-dimensional) matrix
>> structure instead of our current one dimensional top-down (or bottom-up)
>> structure.  How would ICANN operate under such a structure?  Especially,
>> how do we vote to make decisions?  I don't know, and I don't think anybody
>> knows.  Thus, I do not see an easy solution to our problem.
>>
>> Therefore, I believe the best we can do is to find some way to
>> compromise.  That is, to provide a chance for these SIGs to have their
>> voice heard, but not to jeopardize our current one-dimensional structure.
>>
>> In light of all the above, I would be in favor of not "officially"
>> admitting an SIG without a regional identification as an ALS, but to
>> welcome them in all our activities as "members" (not necessarily
>> "individual members"), regardless of regions.  On the other hand, within
>> RALOs, as long as we cannot figure a way to change our one-dimensional
>> structure, we preserve the rarely exercised voting rights to official
>> ALSs (plus the rep of individual members).
>>
>> Meanwhile, I believe the non-affiliation requirement for individual
>> members could be taken out, for I don't think it contributes much in any
>> way.  However, in the case of voting, the representative of individual
>> members should primarily represent those who are unaffiliated.
>>
>> As a final note, I would still support the pending ALS to be admitted to
>> APRALO as an ALS.  This is because, at least for the time being, its
>> presence is still primarily within the APRALO territory.  In addition, I do
>> not see any harm to anybody by admitting them, again, for the time being.
>>
>> Furthermore, if our five RALOs cannot agree to a single solution, I would
>> suggest the Bylaws be changed into each RALO will be able to decide for
>> themselves.  Anyway, ALAC's voting is according to regions instead of ALSs.
>>
>> Thank you all.
>>
>> Kaili
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 9:41 AM Holly Raiche <h.raiche at internode.on.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I agree with Alan on this one and I”d favor option 2 - develop a
>>> category of membership for organizations that represent a section of the
>>> interests of end users but do not have a particular geographic base.
>>>
>>> Holly
>>>
>>> On Sep 20, 2019, at 1:12 AM, Cheryl Langdon-Orr <langdonorr at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I would also just point out the observation that at this point in the
>>> evolution and development of ALAC/At-Large with our ARIWG operations
>>> looking at our ongoing implementation of Recommendations from the last
>>> review 8and* the emerging discussions and work in implementation of
>>> Recommendation #2 in particular, this is an ideal time to have this
>>> discussion and propose ofter full deliberation and possible changed of our
>>> Rules as outlined by Alan for example...   So timing is good and you have a
>>> case to consider at the right time to do so in non-hypothetical terms...
>>>
>>> <https://about.me/cheryl.LangdonOrr?promo=email_sig&utm_source=product&utm_medium=email_sig&utm_campaign=gmail_api&utm_content=thumb>
>>> Cheryl Langdon-Orr
>>> about.me/cheryl.LangdonOrr
>>> <https://about.me/cheryl.LangdonOrr?promo=email_sig&utm_source=product&utm_medium=email_sig&utm_campaign=gmail_api&utm_content=thumb>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, 19 Sep 2019 at 17:03, Tijani BEN JEMAA <
>>> tijani.benjemaa at topnet.tn> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Alan,
>>>>
>>>> "but I have an aversion for doing things in violation of our own rules
>>>> and the ICANN Bylaws."
>>>> I agree 100%
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca> a écrit :
>>>>
>>>> This is not a result of just our "rules", but is also a core principle
>>>> from the ICANN Bylaws. I quote:
>>>>
>>>> *The criteria and standards for the certification of At-Large
>>>> Structures shall be established in such a way that participation by
>>>> individual Internet users who are citizens or residents of countries within
>>>> the Geographic Region of the RALO will predominate in the operation of each
>>>> At-Large Structure within the RALO, while not necessarily excluding
>>>> additional participation, compatible with the interests of the individual
>>>> Internet users within the region, by others.*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I see two ways of "fixing" this. Both would require a Bylaw change
>>>> (certainly possible).
>>>>
>>>> 1. Abolish RALOs and have all ALSes and unaffiliated members be one
>>>> amorphous mass. This removes the need to identify an ALS with a specific
>>>> RALO, since there are none.
>>>>
>>>> 2. Develop the concept of an ALS which crosses RALOs and thus does not
>>>> belong to any of them.
>>>>
>>>> If indeed we have a potential ALS that will really help At-Large, we
>>>> don't want to lose them, but I have an aversion for doing things in
>>>> violation of our own rules and the ICANN Bylaws.
>>>>
>>>> Alan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> At 17/09/2019 11:53 PM, Maureen Hilyard wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Olivier
>>>>
>>>> Maybe the rules need changing. Just because a group has members  from
>>>> all over the world, why should we stop them from becoming members of
>>>> At-Large.
>>>>
>>>> The group currently had a leadership team whose members are all
>>>> resident in the APRALO region. They are one of the few applications that I
>>>> have seen that actually mentioned the DNS. As an ISOC chapter focusing on
>>>> rural development, it probably has a majority of members from APRALO if all
>>>> of its leadership team is from the same region.
>>>>
>>>> Since our current rules only note the primary and secondary members of
>>>> an ALS regardless of who is most active in our work in At-Large, when it
>>>> comes to who the other members are, no-one really bothers to ask. I would
>>>> hazard a guess that if we were to do an analysis  (and were to be so picky)
>>>> we would have several groups that have global  members.
>>>>
>>>> *If we get active participants out of this ALS* we should count
>>>> ourselves lucky. That is the whole point of our ALS recruitment process.
>>>> And as part of our Review we are finding that many of our processes need
>>>> updating to keep up with the changing needs of the environments we are
>>>> having to deal with.
>>>>
>>>> EURALO itself has been faced with an anomaly which does not fit the
>>>> rules, but we have found LACRALO to be very obliging to cater for it. And
>>>> as we revise our ALS Criteria and Expectations we will have to include a
>>>> new "rule" that allows for  ALSes to participate in an event on a
>>>> neighbouring country that "does not belong to the region in which they are
>>>> situated". BIKLAB is now a precedent which will allow this to happen more
>>>> within our system as long as there is agreement between the regions
>>>> concerned.
>>>>
>>>> APRALO has many small island countries in the Pacific that have been
>>>> unable to participate in ICANN activities in their own right under our
>>>> current rules because they are territories of big power countries (mainly
>>>> in EURALO) who are given no support from their home region and would have
>>>> no idea what EURALO was. Pacific countries are an anomaly because as all
>>>> the 22 countries and territories of the Pacific are members of the Pacific
>>>> Forum, they are therefore members of PICISOC, so in fact are members of an
>>>> ALS already -- so we have international participants in our membership,
>>>> even though they live in the Pacific.
>>>>
>>>> Maureen
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, 17 Sep 2019, 3:14 PM Olivier MJ CrÃ©pin-Leblond, <ocl at gih.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> Dear Maureen,
>>>>   I am very surprised to see this having reached the ALAC with a
>>>> recommendation from APRALO that this should be accepted. This should have
>>>> been picked up at Due Diligence: Internet Society Special Interest Groups
>>>> are global as per the explanation on
>>>> https://www.internetsociety.org/sigs This countervenes ALAC rules
>>>> which specify that ALSes must be geographical. See
>>>> tinyurl.com/ALAC-RoP-AdjDoc4-2013-07
>>>>   "2. Be organised so that participation by individual Internet users
>>>> who are citizens or residents of countries within the Geographic Region in
>>>> which the ALS is based will predominate in the ALS' operation. The ALS may
>>>> permit additional participation by others that is compatible with the
>>>> interests of the individual Internet users within the region."
>>>>   The key words are "be organised" - and as much as I support the work
>>>> of the Internet Society Rurel Special Interest Group, rural areas are not
>>>> limited to Asia. Unless there is a commitment that this SIG will restrict
>>>> the majority of its membership to come from the Asia region. The explicit
>>>> response of the SIG in due diligence was "this is a global SIG".
>>>>   I also have a concern that it would be possible to create one SIG
>>>> after another in ISOC and the meaning of ALS no longer applies as you are
>>>> effectively creating votes.
>>>>   The question of "geographical" was asked on the APRALO mailing list
>>>> as recently as 11 September 2019 (
>>>> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/pipermail/apac-discuss/2019-September/004952.html
>>>> ) but I do not see any response to this.
>>>>   Kindest regards,
>>>>   Olivier
>>>>   On 18/09/2019 01:58, ICANN At-Large Staff wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dear All,
>>>>
>>>>   The regional advice from APRALO regarding the ALS Application (307)
>>>> Internet Society Rural Development Special Interest Group has been received.
>>>>
>>>>   The following question has been posed to the ALAC:
>>>>
>>>>   *****
>>>>   Question: Does the ALAC wish to accredit the (307) Internet Society
>>>> Rural Development Special Interest Group? The regional advice was to accept
>>>> the application.
>>>>   *****
>>>>
>>>>   Please note that this vote will close on Tuesday, 24 September 2019
>>>> 23:59 UTC.
>>>>
>>>>   Kind Regards,
>>>>
>>>>   ICANN Policy Staff in support of the At-Large Community
>>>>   Website: atlarge.icann.org
>>>>   Facebook: facebook.com/icann <https://www.facebook.com/icannatlarge>
>>>> atlarge <https://www.facebook.com/icannatlarge>
>>>>   Twitter: @ <https://twitter.com/ICANNAtLarge> ICANNAtLarge
>>>> <https://twitter.com/ICANNAtLarge>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> *Tijani BENJEMAA*
>>>> Executive Director
>>>> Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (*FMAI*)
>>>> Telephone: +216 52 385 114
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
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