[ALAC] Was: [At-Large] Unsubscribe me please

Alan Greenberg alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca
Mon Feb 20 02:45:39 UTC 2017


[I've moved this discussion to the ALAC list.]

Yes, we can put it on the agenda if there is a general wish. And of 
course be cursed because we choose to talk about process...

This is definitely not the first time we have had the discussion, and 
it is not still with us because we chose to drop it, but it a really 
difficult one.

We are continuously torn between too wide a distribution of something 
that in truth, not many want to receive, and the need to be open, 
transparent and seeking input from all and sundry.

As a small example, our rules require that messages related to ALAC 
officer selections go to ALAC-Announce, a list including all ALS 
representatives, a host of other people who have self-subscribed and 
probably other who I am not aware of. The messages also got to the 
ALAC list. None of the people on the Announce list (who are not also 
on the ALAC list) can nominate or vote in the selection. But we send 
it out because we are open and transparent. If we didn't, we would no 
doubt be accused of working under a dark, secretive shroud.

The problem seems to have arisen at this point because of the 
coincidence of two events:

1. The distribution of a pointer to Board Candidate Q&A responses 
sent by staff to the RALO lists, the At-Large list and the 
ALAC-Announce list causing many people to get three copies.

2. The recent completion of a project to collect accurate e-mail 
addresses for ALS primary and secondary contacts, resulting in all of 
those who were "new" to us being subscribed to various lists, 
apparently (this I am not sure of) without informing them that it was 
happening and why.

Several years ago I did a massive correlation of our various lists to 
try to see if any lists were largely subsets or supersets of others 
to eliminate multiple messages being received. The summary result was 
that there was no pattern. There are people on the RALO lists who 
were not on the At-Large list, and there were people on the At-Large 
list who were not on any RALO list. Similarly for the ALAC-Announce 
list. I could go on, but you probably get the picture.

Alan

At 19/02/2017 02:34 PM, Holly Raiche wrote:

>Folks
>
>A great discussion on this list - making some really important 
>points.  So instead of letting the matter drop (as is so often the 
>case), make this an item for discussion at CPH - and allow plenty of 
>time.  How do we communicate, can we do better and how.
>
>So maybe review what some of us know - what are the lists, how are 
>they used (or not), when people unsubscribe, do we try to find out 
>why, is there a better way to communicate - by topic?  And Dev, 
>Garth, Seun and everyone - could there be a page or so - to that 
>list and staff, saying this is a better way and this is how to do it.
>
>We are starting the Review comments - and how we communicate (and 
>how we could do it better) is clearly something that should be one 
>of the  top items on that agenda.  So let's actually make our 
>communications structures better rather than just complain
>
>Thanks everyone
>
>Holly
>On 20 Feb 2017, at 4:57 am, Roberto Gaetano 
><<mailto:roberto_gaetano at hotmail.com>roberto_gaetano at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Oh good, then we can agree.
>>R
>>
>>
>>Da: <mailto:gbruen at knujon.com>gbruen at knujon.com 
>>[<mailto:gbruen at knujon.com>mailto:gbruen at knujon.com]
>>Inviato: domenica 19 febbraio 2017 18:55
>>A: Roberto Gaetano
>>Cc: <mailto:at-large at atlarge-lists.icann.org>at-large at atlarge-lists.icann.org
>>Oggetto: Re: R: [At-Large] Unsubscribe me please
>>
>><< OTOH, your point is to replace email with something different, I 
>>am strongly against.>>
>>
>>Hardly Roberto, I want people to have CHOICE and the system to be 
>>flexible. Have a web interface that allows people to subscribe to 
>>the issue they are concerned about and when they respond via email 
>>to a thread it is placed somewhere useful within the interface so 
>>people who do NOT use the email list can still interact with you. 
>>The overlay of a properly configured interface would also allow 
>>people to use the system in a LOCAL language if they choose.
>>
>>
>>On 2/19/17 12:46 PM, Roberto Gaetano wrote:
>>Garth,
>>I am not arguing on the fact that there are other solutions, what I 
>>reacted was to the idea of dropping the email.
>>What is *better* or *much better* is really a matter of different 
>>taste, connectivity conditions (bandwidth, cost, etc.), way to use 
>>(always online or not), and more.
>>What is good for some, is bad for other.
>>If your point is that ICANN should explore alternatives and add 
>>them to the offer they give to the stakeholders, I am with you.
>>If, OTOH, your point is to replace email with something different, 
>>I am strongly against.
>>Cheers,
>>Roberto
>>
>>
>>Da: <mailto:gbruen at knujon.com>gbruen at knujon.com 
>>[<mailto:gbruen at knujon.com>mailto:gbruen at knujon.com]
>>Inviato: domenica 19 febbraio 2017 18:24
>>A: Roberto Gaetano
>>Cc: <mailto:at-large at atlarge-lists.icann.org>at-large at atlarge-lists.icann.org
>>Oggetto: Re: [At-Large] Unsubscribe me please
>>
>>Roberto,
>>
>>There is a much better way. Web technology has evolved 
>>considerably, It is entirely possible to have a single interface 
>>where all At-Large participants can review current issues and 
>>collaborate in queues and streams. Instead of cobbling together a 
>>bunch of disparate systems for placing and tracking At-Large work, 
>>can we put all the tools in one place like every other effective 
>>organization has done. We're not using anything even close to 
>>workflow, none of the At-Large "Stuff" is results or goal driven. 
>>Log into this for that, log into this other thing for something 
>>else. This is a case study in driving our work into the ground.
>>
>>-Garth
>>
>>
>>On 2/19/17 11:35 AM, Roberto Gaetano wrote:
>>To me, it works well - or at least better than some alternatives.
>>But maybe there other ways that I don't know.
>>Anyway, please do not unsubscribe me :)
>>R
>>
>>Sent from my iPad
>>
>>
>>On 19 Feb 2017, at 17:13, 
>>"<mailto:gbruen at knujon.com>gbruen at knujon.com" 
>><<mailto:gbruen at knujon.com>gbruen at knujon.com> wrote:
>>Seun, there are always too many emails, none channeled to specific 
>>interests or needs. This decades-old "system" of collaboration and 
>>information flow is one of the great failures of ICANN to engage 
>>with the community. Why would anyone want to stay engaged?
>>
>>
>>
>>On 2/19/17 10:46 AM, Seun Ojedeji wrote:
>>Hello,
>>
>>The URL to unsubscribe is in the footer:
>>
>><https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large>https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
>>
>>On that note, I wonder why a few people are unsubscribing? Are the 
>>mails too much already ;-)
>>
>>Regards
>>Sent from my LG G4
>>Kindly excuse brevity and typos
>>
>>On Feb 19, 2017 16:38, "Alexander Forsyth" 
>><<mailto:aforsyth.pdp at gmail.com>aforsyth.pdp at gmail.com> wrote:
>>Thank you.
>>
>>Alexander Forsyth
>><https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/d0c0b46552958ac65c076711d0d4ddd3caa71b4e?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.campominado.org&signature=ae7e770fe5d7250e>www.campominado.org
>>www.alexanderforsyth.com
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>At-Large mailing list
>><mailto:At-Large at atlarge-lists.icann.org>At-Large at atlarge-lists.icann.org
>>https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
>>
>>At-Large Official Site: <http://atlarge.icann.org/>http://atlarge.icann.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>
>>At-Large mailing list
>>
>><mailto:At-Large at atlarge-lists.icann.org>At-Large at atlarge-lists.icann.org
>>
>>https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
>>
>>
>>
>>At-Large Official Site: <http://atlarge.icann.org/>http://atlarge.icann.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>
>>Garth Bruen
>>
>><mailto:gbruen at knujon.com>gbruen at knujon.com
>>
>>
>>
>>617-947-3805
>>
>>http://www.knujon.com
>>
>>ICANN At-Large Advisory Council
>>
>>Author: WHOIS Running the Internet
>>
>><http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-1118679555.html>http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-1118679555.html
>>_______________________________________________
>>At-Large mailing list
>><mailto:At-Large at atlarge-lists.icann.org>At-Large at atlarge-lists.icann.org
>>https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
>>
>>At-Large Official Site: <http://atlarge.icann.org/>http://atlarge.icann.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>
>>Garth Bruen
>>
>><mailto:gbruen at knujon.com>gbruen at knujon.com
>>
>>
>>
>>617-947-3805
>>
>>http://www.knujon.com
>>
>>ICANN At-Large Advisory Council
>>
>>Author: WHOIS Running the Internet
>>
>><http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-1118679555.html>http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-1118679555.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>
>>Garth Bruen
>>
>><mailto:gbruen at knujon.com>gbruen at knujon.com
>>
>>
>>
>>617-947-3805
>>
>>http://www.knujon.com
>>
>>ICANN At-Large Advisory Council
>>
>>Author: WHOIS Running the Internet
>>
>><http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-1118679555.html>http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-1118679555.html_______________________________________________
>>At-Large mailing list
>><mailto:At-Large at atlarge-lists.icann.org>At-Large at atlarge-lists.icann.org
>>https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
>>
>>At-Large Official Site: <http://atlarge.icann.org/>http://atlarge.icann.org
>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>Content-Disposition: inline
>X-Microsoft-Exchange-Diagnostics:
> 
>1;DM5PR03MB2714;9:CR/BPNVTrAfzmM68kQQXnk2O1lzsYt865O5AvDu1isILQZEk58T15ssWC5Sv+onrLpYJv+V/yBsUTMXboMrkjTu6Qbgo5hudRMImGTJTx7dqK57RfdKHW66XYXJUL/dgg0ISfgZ4MmnXAcMr6SoTImZSYbNxA3hm3ej4hzwz9QwEUXI5HCFmkem1oBbs062IkLGkrzh2TXvxAFmoux10lXnZSfN44zSF5P/u/mtVS3p3LkuNo+qnWAc/Te7EirwQm0a2pZq/Ls0lTWXS8MuBH0/gUu/eQRlseU/L9QrSEQDzJQVifnW4qZt/SwDoI+mnC/Ac+GIxg2iQfOEFYupuzfdAxIP/cHq/YM3/aWkICDa0uXOb1XUmzketL7evNG1sEwUPqKfLk27jXOzwlPqX8yZBEJwsG9BcTbXdfjTWE4HY0OMxdkUz5+puJc3yZoS/
>X-Microsoft-Antispam-Mailbox-Delivery:
>         ex:0;auth:0;dest:I;ENG:(20160514016)(520000050)(520002050)(750028);
>
>_______________________________________________
>At-Large mailing list
>At-Large at atlarge-lists.icann.org
>https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
>
>At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/pipermail/alac/attachments/20170219/b354127a/attachment.html>


More information about the ALAC mailing list