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[I've moved this discussion to the ALAC list.]<br><br>
Yes, we can put it on the agenda if there is a general wish. And of
course be cursed because we choose to talk about process...<br><br>
This is definitely not the first time we have had the discussion, and it
is not still with us because we chose to drop it, but it a really
difficult one. <br><br>
We are continuously torn between too wide a distribution of something
that in truth, not many want to receive, and the need to be open,
transparent and seeking input from all and sundry.<br><br>
As a small example, our rules require that messages related to ALAC
officer selections go to ALAC-Announce, a list including all ALS
representatives, a host of other people who have self-subscribed and
probably other who I am not aware of. The messages also got to the ALAC
list. None of the people on the Announce list (who are not also on the
ALAC list) can nominate or vote in the selection. But we send it out
because we are open and transparent. If we didn't, we would no doubt be
accused of working under a dark, secretive shroud.<br><br>
The problem seems to have arisen at this point because of the coincidence
of two events:<br><br>
1. The distribution of a pointer to Board Candidate Q&A responses
sent by staff to the RALO lists, the At-Large list and the ALAC-Announce
list causing many people to get three copies.<br><br>
2. The recent completion of a project to collect accurate e-mail
addresses for ALS primary and secondary contacts, resulting in all of
those who were "new" to us being subscribed to various lists,
apparently (this I am not sure of) without informing them that it was
happening and why.<br><br>
Several years ago I did a massive correlation of our various lists to try
to see if any lists were largely subsets or supersets of others to
eliminate multiple messages being received. The summary result was that
there was no pattern. There are people on the RALO lists who were not on
the At-Large list, and there were people on the At-Large list who were
not on any RALO list. Similarly for the ALAC-Announce list. I could go
on, but you probably get the picture.<br><br>
Alan<br><br>
At 19/02/2017 02:34 PM, Holly Raiche wrote:<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">Folks<br><br>
A great discussion on this list - making some really important
points. So instead of letting the matter drop (as is so often the
case), make this an item for discussion at CPH - and allow plenty of
time. How do we communicate, can we do better and how.
<br><br>
So maybe review what some of us know - what are the lists, how are they
used (or not), when people unsubscribe, do we try to find out why, is
there a better way to communicate - by topic? And Dev, Garth, Seun
and everyone - could there be a page or so - to that list and staff,
saying this is a better way and this is how to do it.<br><br>
We are starting the Review comments - and how we communicate (and how we
could do it better) is clearly something that should be one of the
top items on that agenda. So let’s actually make our communications
structures better rather than just complain<br><br>
Thanks everyone <br><br>
Holly<br>
On 20 Feb 2017, at 4:57 am, Roberto Gaetano
<<a href="mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com">
roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">Oh good, then we can agree.<br>
R<br>
<br>
<br>
<b>Da:</b> <a href="mailto:gbruen@knujon.com">gbruen@knujon.com</a>
[<a href="mailto:gbruen@knujon.com">mailto:gbruen@knujon.com</a>] <br>
<b>Inviato:</b> domenica 19 febbraio 2017 18:55<br>
<b>A:</b> Roberto Gaetano<br>
<b>Cc:</b>
<a href="mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org">
at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a><br>
<b>Oggetto:</b> Re: R: [At-Large] Unsubscribe me please<br>
<br>
<< OTOH, your point is to replace email with something different, I
am strongly against.>><br><br>
Hardly Roberto, I want people to have CHOICE and the system to be
flexible. Have a web interface that allows people to subscribe to the
issue they are concerned about and when they respond via email to a
thread it is placed somewhere useful within the interface so people who
do NOT use the email list can still interact with you. The overlay of a
properly configured interface would also allow people to use the system
in a LOCAL language if they choose. <br><br>
<br>
On 2/19/17 12:46 PM, Roberto Gaetano wrote:<br>
<dl>
<dd>Garth,<br>
<dd>I am not arguing on the fact that there are other solutions, what I
reacted was to the idea of dropping the email.<br>
<dd>What is *better</b>* or *much better</b>* is really a matter of
different taste, connectivity conditions (bandwidth, cost, etc.), way to
use (always online or not), and more.<br>
<dd>What is good for some, is bad for other.<br>
<dd>If your point is that ICANN should explore alternatives and add them
to the offer they give to the stakeholders, I am with you.<br>
<dd>If, OTOH, your point is to replace email with something different, I
am strongly against.<br>
<dd>Cheers,<br>
<dd>Roberto<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>Da:</b> <a href="mailto:gbruen@knujon.com">gbruen@knujon.com</a>
[<a href="mailto:gbruen@knujon.com">mailto:gbruen@knujon.com</a>] <br>
<dd>Inviato:</b> domenica 19 febbraio 2017 18:24<br>
<dd>A:</b> Roberto Gaetano<br>
<dd>Cc:</b>
<a href="mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org">
at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a><br>
<dd>Oggetto:</b> Re: [At-Large] Unsubscribe me please<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>Roberto, <br><br>
<dd>There is a much better way. Web technology has evolved considerably,
It is entirely possible to have a single interface where all At-Large
participants can review current issues and collaborate in queues and
streams. Instead of cobbling together a bunch of disparate systems for
placing and tracking At-Large work, can we put all the tools in one place
like every other effective organization has done. We're not using
anything even close to workflow, none of the At-Large "Stuff"
is results or goal driven. Log into this for that, log into this other
thing for something else. This is a case study in driving our work into
the ground.<br><br>
<dd>-Garth<br><br>
<br>
<dd>On 2/19/17 11:35 AM, Roberto Gaetano wrote:<br>
<dl>
<dd>To me, it works well - or at least better than some
alternatives.<br>
<dd>But maybe there other ways that I don't know.<br>
<dd>Anyway, please do not unsubscribe me :)<br>
<dd>R<br><br>
<dd>Sent from my iPad<br><br>
<br>
<dd>On 19 Feb 2017, at 17:13,
"<a href="mailto:gbruen@knujon.com">gbruen@knujon.com</a>"
<<a href="mailto:gbruen@knujon.com">gbruen@knujon.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<dl>
<dd>Seun, there are always too many emails, none channeled to specific
interests or needs. This decades-old "system" of collaboration
and information flow is one of the great failures of ICANN to engage with
the community. Why would anyone want to stay engaged? <br><br>
<br><br>
<dd>On 2/19/17 10:46 AM, Seun Ojedeji wrote:<br>
<dl>
<dd>Hello,<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>The URL to unsubscribe is in the footer:<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd><a href="https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large">
https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large</a><br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>On that note, I wonder why a few people are unsubscribing? Are the
mails too much already ;-)<br><br>
<dd>Regards<br>
<dd>Sent from my LG G4<br>
<dd>Kindly excuse brevity and typos<br>
<dd> <br>
<dd>On Feb 19, 2017 16:38, "Alexander Forsyth"
<<a href="mailto:aforsyth.pdp@gmail.com">aforsyth.pdp@gmail.com</a>
> wrote:<br>
<dd>Thank you.<br><br>
<dd>Alexander Forsyth<br>
<dd>
<a href="https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/d0c0b46552958ac65c076711d0d4ddd3caa71b4e?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.campominado.org&signature=ae7e770fe5d7250e">
www.campominado.org</a><br>
<dd><a href="http://www.alexanderforsyth.com/" eudora="autourl">
www.alexanderforsyth.com</a><br><br>
<dd>_______________________________________________<br>
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<dd>At-Large Official Site:
<a href="http://atlarge.icann.org/">http://atlarge.icann.org</a><br><br>
<br><br>
<br><br>
<dd><pre>_______________________________________________</pre><br><br>
<dd><pre>At-Large mailing list</pre><br><br>
<dd><pre><a href="mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org">
At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a></pre><br><br>
<dd><pre>
<a href="https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large" eudora="autourl">
https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large</a></pre><br>
<br>
<dd><pre> </pre><br><br>
<dd><pre>At-Large Official Site:
<a href="http://atlarge.icann.org/">http://atlarge.icann.org</a></pre><br>
</dl>
<dd> <br><br>
<dd> <br><br>
<dd><pre>-- </pre><br><br>
<dd><pre>Garth Bruen</pre><br><br>
<dd><pre><a href="mailto:gbruen@knujon.com">gbruen@knujon.com</a></pre>
<br><br>
<dd><pre> </pre><br><br>
<dd><pre>617-947-3805</pre><br><br>
<dd><pre><a href="http://www.knujon.com/" eudora="autourl">
http://www.knujon.com</a></pre><br><br>
<dd><pre>ICANN At-Large Advisory Council</pre><br><br>
<dd><pre>Author: WHOIS Running the Internet</pre><br><br>
<dd><pre>
<a href="http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-1118679555.html">
http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-1118679555.html</a>
</pre><br>
<dd>_______________________________________________<br>
<dd>At-Large mailing list<br>
<dd><a href="mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org">
At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a><br>
<dd>
<a href="https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large" eudora="autourl">
https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large</a><br><br>
<dd>At-Large Official Site:
<a href="http://atlarge.icann.org/">http://atlarge.icann.org</a><br><br>
</dl>
</dl>
<dd> <br><br>
<dd> <br><br>
<dd><pre>-- </pre><br><br>
<dd><pre>Garth Bruen</pre><br><br>
<dd><pre><a href="mailto:gbruen@knujon.com">gbruen@knujon.com</a></pre>
<br><br>
<dd><pre> </pre><br><br>
<dd><pre>617-947-3805</pre><br><br>
<dd><pre><a href="http://www.knujon.com/" eudora="autourl">
http://www.knujon.com</a></pre><br><br>
<dd><pre>ICANN At-Large Advisory Council</pre><br><br>
<dd><pre>Author: WHOIS Running the Internet</pre><br><br>
<dd><pre>
<a href="http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-1118679555.html">
http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-1118679555.html</a>
</pre><br>
</dl> <br><br>
<br><br>
<pre>-- </pre><br><br>
<pre>Garth Bruen</pre><br><br>
<pre><a href="mailto:gbruen@knujon.com">gbruen@knujon.com</a></pre><br>
<br>
<pre> </pre><br><br>
<pre>617-947-3805</pre><br><br>
<pre><a href="http://www.knujon.com/" eudora="autourl">
http://www.knujon.com</a></pre><br><br>
<pre>ICANN At-Large Advisory Council</pre><br><br>
<pre>Author: WHOIS Running the Internet</pre><br><br>
<pre>
<a href="http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-1118679555.html">
http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-1118679555.html</a>
</pre>_______________________________________________<br>
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