[ALAC] [SPAM] Re: CONSENSUS CALL: My comments on Draft Bylaws
Alan Greenberg
alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca
Thu May 19 19:32:28 UTC 2016
Hi Tijani,
See below..
At 19/05/2016 03:18 PM, Tijani BEN JEMAA wrote:
>Alan,
>
>I do apologize if the issue was discussed in the
>ALT and I didn’t react. It was probably
>because I wasn’t following the last part of
>the call because people came and were sitting in
>the same room. I tried to follow, but I was
>almost absent at the end of the call. I
>apologize once more. Nevertheless I didn’t say
>I support your comment during the ALT call.
>
>As for my position on this comment, I don’t
>see why ALAC should oppose to the restriction
>made by the bylaw proposal for the person who is
>serving on the EC administration to be nominated
>for a board position. Is this of vital interest
>for the end users community? Are we convinced
>that we have only one person who is eligible for the board position?
It is not about "us" and not about one person.
The examples I gave are from the GNSO, ccNSO and SSAC.
We (the CCWG) have been very careful to make sure
that the Bylaws accurately reflect what the CCWG
proposed. The only places where we have diverged
are where there were legal or other compelling
reasons to do so. In fact the other part of my
comment is about just such a case, where I *DO*
believe there is a compelling case. If the case I
make is insufficient, we will follow the exact proposal.
In this present case, I see no reason to add
rules that the CCWG did not create, and without a
compelling argument. So we should follow the CCWG proposal.
>For me, it is not an issue that merit the
>opposition of the At-Large community. it may give a bad image.
I will take that into account if I make any claim
that my submission has other support.
Alan
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Tijani BEN JEMAA
>Executive Director
>Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (FMAI)
>Phone: +216 98 330 114
> +216 52 385 114
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>>Le 19 mai 2016 Ã 18:02, Alan Greenberg
>><<mailto:alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca>alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca> a écrit :
>>
>>Tijani, if I mis-stated your position, my
>>apologies. I do not recall any opposition when
>>this was discussed on the ALT call.
>>
>>On the subject, I too do not support the
>>simultaneous holding of the two positions. Can
>>you explain what conflict you see in a Chair
>>applying for a Board position, with the clear
>>understanding that he/she would have to resign
>>the EC Admin position if selected?
>>
>>Alan
>>
>>
>>At 19/05/2016 11:54 AM, Tijani BEN JEMAA wrote:
>>>Alan,
>>>
>>>I support your comment on Section 4.6(e)(v)
>>>but not 7.4(d) because I don̢۪t find it a
>>>problem to restrict to someone who is serving
>>>on the EC administration to be simultaneously
>>>on the board or to be candidate to such
>>>position. I even find it a kind of avoiding
>>>the concentration of power in the hands of a single person.
>>>
>>>So please record my full support to your
>>>comments on section 4.6(e)(v) and my opposition to those about section 7.4(d).
>>>
>>>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>Tijani BEN JEMAA
>>>Executive Director
>>>Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (FMAI)
>>>Phone: +216 98 330 114
>>> +216 52 385 114
>>>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Le 19 mai 2016 Ã 14:56, Alan Greenberg
>>>><<mailto:alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca>alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca > a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>Most of the comments I made (sent to the CCWG
>>>>list and IANA-Issues lists) have either been
>>>>completely integrated into the CCWG comments
>>>>or are not particularly important. There are
>>>>two that I feel still have merit. I have
>>>>reviewed them with the ALT, and I have their
>>>>full support (including Cheryl and Leon who
>>>>have been very involved in the current draft
>>>>Bylaws as well as the more recent comments of
>>>>the CCWG itself on the draft Bylaws. I am not
>>>>making these comments without considerable
>>>>thought. IN BOTH CASES, IF THE CURRENT DRAFT
>>>>BYLAWS ARE IMPLEMENTED, I BELIEVE THAT ICANN
>>>>WILL BE FOLLOWING A PATH THAT WILL NEGATIVELY IMPACT ALL OF US.
>>>>
>>>>I will be submitting these comments to the
>>>>Public Comment on my own behalf, but I would
>>>>like to be able to say that they are
>>>>supported by the ALAC prior to the close of
>>>>the comment oat 23:59 on Saturday. I would
>>>>appreciate explicit statements of support,
>>>>but in the absence of significant opposition,
>>>>I will say that the comments are those of the ALAC.
>>>>
>>>>Alan
>>>>
>>>>PS I will not be submitting the comment until
>>>>later today. If you notice any typos, please let me know ASAP.
>>>>
>>>>=============================
>>>>Background:
>>>>The Affirmation of Commitment (AoC) Reviews
>>>>are now being integrated into the Bylaws. The
>>>>AoC called for the reviews to be held every
>>>>three years, but was unclear as to when the
>>>>three years was measured from. The three
>>>>years has been interpreted flexibly to allow
>>>>more time between some reviews and the Board
>>>>has deferred some reviews due to community
>>>>overload (with the agreement of the NTIA, the
>>>>AoC co-signer). The CCWG required the new
>>>>reviews to be carried out no less frequently
>>>>than every five years, measured from the
>>>>start of one review until the start of the
>>>>next one. It was recently realized that the
>>>>last WHOIS review started in October 2010, so
>>>>when the new Bylaws are adopted, we will
>>>>already be several months past the October
>>>>2015 date for the next one to start and will
>>>>need to initiate the next one immediately.
>>>>
>>>>Since the required review is an Registration
>>>>Directory Services Review, renamed from WHOIS
>>>>Review, we would technically NOT be in
>>>>default, since there never has been an "RDS
>>>>Review". But it is assumed that this
>>>>distinction will not affect ICANN's actions.
>>>>
>>>>Section 4.6(e)(v)
>>>>During the CCWG discussions on the interval
>>>>between the reviews, the issue of ICANN
>>>>immediately being in default on the WHOIS/RDS
>>>>review was never raised. Moreover, since
>>>>those discussions were held, the GNSO new RDS
>>>>PDPWG has been convened and is well underway.
>>>>It is reasonably clear that the people in the
>>>>volunteer community who would likely
>>>>participate in an RDS review significantly
>>>>overlap with those who are heavily involved
>>>>in the RDS PDP. To schedule an RDS Review
>>>>soon after the Bylaws are enacted would be
>>>>serious error and will only serve to slow the
>>>>work of the PDP - a PDP that even now may go on for quite some time.
>>>>
>>>>It is clear that there is work that needs to
>>>>be done that would fall under the auspices of
>>>>a full blown PDP. We need a good picture of
>>>>how the various current WHOIS/RDS efforts
>>>>mesh together. We need to assess how the
>>>>recommendations of the first WHOIS review are
>>>>being implemented and their impact, as well
>>>>as other WHOIS/RDS related activities unrelated to that last AoC review.
>>>>
>>>>But these efforts, as important as they are,
>>>>do not need to be done by a full-blown
>>>>AoC-like review. Most of the work can be done
>>>>by staff. To the extent that "staff cannot be
>>>>trusted" (something that I question, but will
>>>>address), I am others in the community will
>>>>gladly act as a sounding block and review
>>>>their work. [For the record, I was the person
>>>>on the ATRT2 who did the full analysis of the
>>>>WHOIS RT Recommendation implementation, so I
>>>>have some idea of what I am talking about.]
>>>>
>>>>The current Bylaws for the organizational
>>>>reviews all have explicit time limits in
>>>>them, but also have the words "if feasible".
>>>>That was true even when the organization
>>>>review interval was (foolishly) three years
>>>>instead of the five years it was quickly
>>>>changed to. "If feasible" allowed the Board
>>>>to save an immense amount of wasted community
>>>>expense and ICANN dollars. We need some
>>>>wriggle room in the current case as well.
>>>>
>>>>I strongly suggest that the draft Bylaws be
>>>>revised to allow additional flexibility to
>>>>defer the RDS review until there is a real
>>>>RDS to review, and would even suggest that
>>>>once implemented, they soon after be amended to add the missing "if feasible".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>=============================
>>>>Background:
>>>>The CCWG Proposal requires the Empowered
>>>>Community (EC) to take a variety of actions
>>>>but was not specific on exactly how this
>>>>would happen or what people would take
>>>>responsibility for ensuring that the actions
>>>>are carried out. As a result this had to be
>>>>addressed during Bylaw drafting. The concept
>>>>of the EC Administration was created,
>>>>embodied by the Chairs (or other delegates)
>>>>of the AC/SOs participating in the EC.
>>>>
>>>>Along with the creation (or perhaps
>>>>identification, since there was always a need
>>>>for such a body/group) of the EC
>>>>Administration, a section was added to the
>>>>draft Bylaws placing restrictions on the
>>>>people involved in the EC Administration.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Section 7.4(d)
>>>>"No person who serves on the EC
>>>>Administration while serving in that capacity
>>>>shall be considered for nomination or
>>>>designated to the Board, nor serve
>>>>simultaneously on the EC Administration and
>>>>as a Director or Liaison to the Board."
>>>>
>>>>Lawyers Comments (in reply to my early raising of this issue):
>>>>On March 31, 2016, counsel posed the
>>>>following question to the Bylaws Coordination
>>>>Group and received confirmation that the
>>>>disqualification in Section 7.4(d) be
>>>>included in the Bylaws: "Confirm that chairs
>>>>of the Decisional Participants and persons
>>>>designated by the Decisional Participants to
>>>>serve on the EC Chairs Council cannot be
>>>>nominated or serve on the ICANN Board. Such a
>>>>provision would be consistent with other
>>>>provisions in the current Bylaws, which
>>>>provide that (a) "no person who serves in any
>>>>capacity (including as a liaison) on any
>>>>Supporting Organization Council shall
>>>>simultaneously serve as a Director or liaison
>>>>to the Board (Article VI, Section 4.2)" and
>>>>(b) persons serving on the Nominating
>>>>Committee must be "neutral and objective,
>>>>without any fixed personal commitments to
>>>>particular individuals, organizations, or
>>>>commercial objectives in carrying out their
>>>>Nominating Committee responsibilities†(Article VII, Section 4.4)."]
>>>>
>>>>I note that the term "nominated" as used in
>>>>the new Bylaws is used in the sense of the
>>>>current Nominating Committee. Once a person
>>>>is "nominated" by the NomCom or an AC/SO,
>>>>they will become a Director once the EC takes
>>>>the appropriate action (and the EC has no
>>>>option to NOT take such action). However,
>>>>this is confusing terminology, because an
>>>>AC/SO may well have a nomination process used
>>>>to select candidates who will then vie for the actual AC/SO selection.
>>>>
>>>>I believe that the Bylaws Coordination Group
>>>>may have erred in its reply and moreover, the
>>>>Bylaw drafters went farther than was required
>>>>in implementing that response. There are several reasons.
>>>>
>>>>1. I cannot understand what the relation ship
>>>>is to the EC Administration and the rules
>>>>that apply to the NomCom. The NomCom makes
>>>>decisions. The AC/SO Chairs or other
>>>>delegates who participate in the EC
>>>>Administration have no discretion whatsoever.
>>>>They MUST follow the directions of the entity nominating/removing a director.
>>>>
>>>>2. Given that lack of ability to influence
>>>>outcomes, I find it unreasonable to restrict
>>>>such a person from submitting an SoI to the
>>>>NomCom or to their own AC/SO as a potential director (ie to be "considered").
>>>>
>>>>3. I would find it quite reasonable that they
>>>>would have to surrender (or be deemed to have
>>>>surrendered) their EC Administration seat if
>>>>they are actually nominated (nominated in the
>>>>sense of the Bylaws - will actually serve on
>>>>the Board once the EC Designates them). This
>>>>is in line with the reference to serving "simultaneously"
>>>>
>>>>4. I note that the wording in the proposed
>>>>Bylaws is different that what was asked. The
>>>>March 31st question was "Confirm that chairs
>>>>of the Decisional Participants and persons
>>>>designated by the Decisional Participants to
>>>>serve on the EC Chairs Council cannot be
>>>>nominated or serve on the ICANN Board.". The
>>>>draft Bylaws extend that to "considered for
>>>>nomination" which is a much wider group.
>>>>
>>>>5. The path of AC/SO Chair to Director is not
>>>>unreasonable - both require high degree of
>>>>confidence in the person expressed by the
>>>>AC/SO. And to be blunt, arguably two of our
>>>>best currently seated AC/SO Directors have
>>>>followed exactly that path, as did the
>>>>current Board Chair (although in that case,
>>>>since the SSAC has chosen not to be part of
>>>>the EC, the rule would not be applicable).
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>ALAC mailing list
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>>>>https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/alac
>>>>
>>>>At-Large Online: http://www.atlarge.icann.org
>>>>ALAC Working Wiki:
>>>>https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/At-Large+Advisory+Committee+(ALAC )
>>_______________________________________________
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