[ALAC] [At-Large] Reference: ICC Ruling on Objections filed by the ALAC

Carlton Samuels carlton.samuels at gmail.com
Thu Jan 23 16:23:45 UTC 2014


Again, I see and hear you. Can I make use of an acronym you used in another
space, only this time with a different spin perhaps?  RTMFM.

-Carlton


==============================
Carlton A Samuels
Mobile: 876-818-1799
*Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround*
=============================


On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 11:03 AM, Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch <
apisan at unam.mx> wrote:

> Carlton,
>
> I object the ad-hominem, chest-pounding, bullying and outright distortions
> and lies in your posting. Let it rest for the record since even you have
> somewhat bowed to the more rational approach which Evan picked up, and
> since you appear to have backtracked from or clarified what seemed a
> serious accusation against an absent third party.
>
> Alejandro Pisanty
>
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>      Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
> Facultad de Química UNAM
> Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
>
>
>
> +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD
>
> +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475
> Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
> Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn,
> http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
> ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
> .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
>
> ________________________________________
> Desde: at-large-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org [
> at-large-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org] en nombre de Carlton Samuels [
> carlton.samuels at gmail.com]
> Enviado el: jueves, 23 de enero de 2014 08:31
> Hasta: At-Large Worldwide
> CC: At-Large Worldwide
> Asunto: Re: [At-Large] [ALAC] Reference: ICC Ruling on Objections filed by
> the ALAC
>
> Alejandro:
> Here we go again. You do find it easy to judge....and disapprove.
>
> Again, you hopelessly misread, probably because you came in  late to an
> ongoing conversation.  Or maybe the nuances of meaning offered by my native
> English Language is a challenge.  [Talking of 'metaphorical flourish', its
> like me and Spanish. I know two words in a flurry of ten and think I
> understand it.]  Yes, the tone I used was intentional; mocking. I cannot
> and will not bear your burdens.
>
> NO my friend. You libel Sala. An explanation by Sala of the meaning of a
> term I used cannot be a basis for your wily accusation of her.  Sala is
> absolved.
>
> The problems I saw of the objection framework were both STRUCTURAL and
> PHILOSOPHICAL. And since they were obvious from the beginning, I am of the
> mind they were left in place for cause.
>
> I feel vindicated because the evaluator laid them bare.
>
> Pfftt. When I use a word it means what is intended. First of all, plainly,
> I APPROVE of the evaluator's judgement. If only because it coincides with
> my initial one!  The use of the descriptive 'cogent' was for the ordinary
> meaning and not cynical.
>
> I quoted his writings extensively because my own reading and interpretation
> of the AGB and after extensive conversations and debates with Committee
> chair Dev Anand Teelucksingh - who, other than Alan Greenberg is possibly
> the most thoughtful and best researcher I know in At-Large - I was
> convinced that:
>
> 1. There were serious disconnects in the objection framework offered in the
> AGB
> 2. The barrier to entry in the process in form of a fee was intended as a
> 'chilling effect'; plainly, they were unwanted
> 3. I doubted the cover of the ALAC as sponsored community objector gave
> equal protection
> 4. The process instituted to determine 'community standing' was not fit and
> MAY NOT be.
> 4. The PICs were an afterthought, a Wile E. Coyote scheme and in context of
> an entity who disavows a regulatory function, hardly enforceable on an
> business
>
> I hold those views.  Those who have been paying attention know they are
> mine and honestly developed.   Sorry if you disapprove.
>
> Bless your heart.
> -Carlton
>
>
>
>
> ==============================
> Carlton A Samuels
> Mobile: 876-818-1799
> *Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround*
> =============================
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 12:17 AM, Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch <
> apisan at unam.mx> wrote:
>
> > Sala, Carlton,
> >
> > so, you are accusing the reviewer of cheating? That's pretty strong.
> >
> > Re actions, I have a different one: "live and learn." Or to move away
> from
> > the metaphorical flourish, analyze and extract lessons learned.
> >
> > First, find out in depth what went wrong with this objection and whether
> > ALAC can do better. Spread the learning to the RALOs.
> >
> > Second, if a pattern emerges that shows deeper problems with the
> objection
> > process and with the gTLD program, put it in writing and work to modify
> > either or both.
> >
> > And, let's try to show the cultural sensitivity we all demand by limiting
> > the references to specific bodies of religious text.
> >
> > Yours,
> >
> > Alejandro Pisanty
> >
> >
> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> >      Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
> > Facultad de Química UNAM
> > Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
> >
> >
> >
> > +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD
> >
> > +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475
> > Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
> > LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
> > Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn,
> > http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
> > Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
> > ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
> > .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
> >
> > ________________________________________
> > Desde: at-large-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org [
> > at-large-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org] en nombre de Carlton Samuels [
> > carlton.samuels at gmail.com]
> > Enviado el: miércoles, 22 de enero de 2014 22:50
> > Hasta: Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro
> > CC: At-Large Worldwide; At-Large Worldwide
> > Asunto: Re: [At-Large] [ALAC] Reference: ICC Ruling on Objections filed
> by
> > the ALAC
> >
> > Thank you, dear Sala.  Muah.
> >
> > To Alejandro's first question, answer is be quiet and slink away.  Paras
> 30
> > & 31 here should inform that action:
> >
> >
> >
> http://newgtlds.icann.org/sites/default/files/drsp/17jan14/determination-1-1-1489-82287-en.pdf
> >
> > ...and the meaning of the reference so ably revealed by Sala.
> >
> > Period the end.
> > -Carlton
> >
> >
> > ==============================
> > Carlton A Samuels
> > Mobile: 876-818-1799
> > *Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround*
> > =============================
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 11:35 PM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro <
> > salanieta.tamanikaiwaimaro at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I will let Carlton explain the first question that Alejandro wrote.
> > >
> > > With respect to the use of Jacob and Esau, it is an expression used
> when
> > > describing deception. The story goes that Jacob and Esau were brothers
> > and
> > > sons of Isaac. In ancient times and in that particular culture, before
> a
> > > father would die he would bestow his blessings to the firstborn as that
> > was
> > > his birthright. Whilst Jacob and Esau were twins, Esau was the older of
> > the
> > > two and so it was his birthright to succeed, However as Isaac reached
> old
> > > age, his sight failed him so he could not see properly. In a successful
> > > attempt by Jacob to get the blessings of the firstborn after striking a
> > > deal with his brother over a bowl of soup, Jacob killed an animal and
> put
> > > the skin around his hands so that he could appear hairy as his brother
> > Esau
> > > was hairy and in so doing deceived his father into blessing him. So the
> > > expression to hear the voice of Jacob but it is the hand of Esau he
> feels
> > > is used to refer to the use of "deception".
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Dr. Alejandro Pisanty Baruch <
> > > apisan at unam.mx> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Carlton,
> > > >
> > > > what is the action that you conclude should follow?
> > > >
> > > > Can you explain the Jacob/Esau reference please?
> > > >
> > > > Yours,
> > > >
> > > > Alejandro Pisanty
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > > >      Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
> > > > Facultad de Química UNAM
> > > > Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD
> > > >
> > > > +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475
> > > > Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
> > > > LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
> > > > Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn,
> > > > http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
> > > > Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
> > > > ---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
> > > > .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .  .
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________________
> > > > Desde: at-large-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org [
> > > > at-large-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org] en nombre de Carlton
> > Samuels [
> > > > carlton.samuels at gmail.com]
> > > > Enviado el: miércoles, 22 de enero de 2014 21:04
> > > > Hasta: At-Large Worldwide; At-Large Worldwide
> > > > Asunto: [At-Large] Reference: ICC Ruling on Objections filed by the
> > ALAC
> > > >
> > > > Colleagues may recall that this writer was part of the original
> > At-Large
> > > > panel constituted to evaluate and determine whether the ALAC would
> > > exercise
> > > > standing and file community objections to a gTLD application.
> > > >
> > > > You will also recall that after some time engaging and several
> > > evaluations,
> > > > I withdrew from the process, principally because I was challenged to
> > > > reconcile my disquiet regarding the bases used to identify the
> offended
> > > > community in context and the expandable and sometimes indeterminate
> > > > attributes available for defining a community with standing to raise
> an
> > > > objection.
> > > >
> > > > So now, the evaluator hired by the ICC to evaluate the objections
> filed
> > > has
> > > > issued his ruling.  See it here:
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://newgtlds.icann.org/sites/default/files/drsp/17jan14/determination-1-1-1684-6394-en.pdf
> > > > .
> > > > Here's the key understanding, as he sees it, of what obtains..
> > > >
> > > > "*The formal objection process was created to allow a f**ull and fair
> > > > consideration of objections based on certain l**imited grounds
> outside
> > > > ICANN’s evaluation of applications on t**heir merits*"  - Para 54,
> Page
> > > 29
> > > >
> > > > He, too, has his troubles settling on a meaning of the term
> 'community'
> > > in
> > > > context. His take...
> > > >
> > > > "*......**The word “community” refers not to a place, but to an
> > > > abstraction: the convergence of a sense of involvement with common
> > > > interests....Communities of persons united by their interests in how
> > they
> > > > earn their living may be especially strong, whether they form
> permanent
> > > > organisations (like professional associations) or not (like the
> entire
> > > > **population
> > > > segment of retirees).*"  Para 49, Page 27 inter alia
> > > >
> > > > He continues, bemoaning his inability to cleanly define a community
> > with
> > > > standing.....and in the process, pimp slaps the prevailing or
> > predominant
> > > > At-Large tenet of community....
> > > >
> > > > "*.....Communities do not necessarily create institutions. They do
> not
> > > > necessarily function as a polity, in the sense of identifying
> officials
> > > > formally authorized to act in **their name, represent their
> interests,
> > or
> > > > formulate their policies. They may exist without structures of
> > > > self-governance, such as membership committees which admit **or
> exclude
> > > > individuals by reference to more or less well-articulated standards
> > > > of qualification or conduct**........It follows that communities may
> > > > include individuals who are more or less **concerned with the welfare
> > of
> > > > the group as a whole; it may contain cynics as well as *
> > > > *idealists, speculators as well as altruists. Naturally it may
> include
> > > > subgroups or even **individuals whose opinions and preferences are
> > > sharply
> > > > at odds with those of the **majority of the community. Unless the
> > > community
> > > > has in some constitutional sense **defined itself as excluding
> > > undesirable
> > > > individuals, or at least limited their capacity to **make claims to
> > speak
> > > > as members of the group, someone looking at a community **from the
> > > outside,
> > > > and armed only with this broad understanding of what a **“community”
> > may
> > > > be, has no rules-based criteria for evaluating who does or does not
> > > > **belong
> > > > to the community. *" Paras 50 & 51, Page 26-27, inter alia
> > > >
> > > > Here's where he ends up....
> > > >
> > > > "*....The determination I am now charged with effecting deals.... –
> > with
> > > > “global Internet communities”. That expression has not, however, been
> > > given
> > > > further specific definition. One must therefore proceed on the basis
> of
> > > (i)
> > > > discerning what the relevant rules do not say about “communities” and
> > > (ii)
> > > > being attentive to implied constraints derived from principles
> > developed
> > > by
> > > > ICANN.*" Para 52, Page 28, inter alia
> > > >
> > > > He elides a lot of stuff from the foregoing to the six (6) principles
> > > upon
> > > > which the new GTLD program is predicated in Para 55 then delivered
> this
> > > > [considered] opinion....
> > > >
> > > > "*To the extent that abstract or aspirational principles are defined,
> > > they
> > > > are those of a free market (“competition”, “consumer choice”,
> > > > “differentiation” and “diversity”) and freedom of expression, rather
> > than
> > > > regulatory constraints arising from a protective (or authoritarian)
> > > desire
> > > > to filter “wrong” or “unsound” views, or otherwise restrict access
> s**o
> > > as
> > > > to reserve it to those who are vetted by some type of official
> > bodies...I
> > > > see no reflection here of* *ALAC’s undisguised bias **against
> > “commercial
> > > > applicants” who “cannot be trusted to self-police the .health domain
> > > space
> > > > and are “more than likely” to place “commercial interests before
> > > > public **welfare
> > > > interests”*.......*The Objector’s animadversions against the
> Applicant
> > > miss
> > > > the target;* *profit-seekers **may apply; the public interest is
> > > evidently
> > > > intended to be protected by protocols imposed by ICANN in a manner
> akin
> > > to
> > > > that of regulators whose supervision constrains the conduct of
> > for-profit
> > > > providers of public services generally...*" Paras 56 & 57, Page 31
> > inter
> > > > alia
> > > >
> > > > Reasonable men and women may well agree to disagree, agreeably or
> not.
> > I
> > > > willingly acknowledge the arguments posited by this evaluator are
> > indeed
> > > > cogent. All in all, this was a bravura performance, worthy of
> > > > acknowledgement. For in one fell swoop, this gentleman tells the ALAC
> > to
> > > > piss off - politely, in an 'Englishy' kind of way -, gives a
> > left-handed
> > > > thumbs up to the regulatory role of ICANN, fingers the PICs as I have
> > > > always intimated they were .......and comes up roses.
> > > >
> > > > He hears the voice of Jacob. But smart fella knows it is the hand of
> > Esau
> > > > he feels.
> > > >
> > > > -Carlton
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ==============================
> > > > Carlton A Samuels
> > > > Mobile: 876-818-1799
> > > > *Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround*
> > > > =============================
> > > > _______________________________________________
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