[WHOIS-WG] [At-Large] [NA-Discuss] [FWD: RE: [ALAC-Announce] Meeting Invitation / Discussion on Domain Names Registered Using Private/Proxy Services / 14.12.09 @ 18:00 UTC]

Tue Dec 15 01:48:11 CST 2009

Derek,

On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 05:44:02 +0200, Derek Smythe <derek at aa419.org> wrote:

> No Karl, ICANN is not being used as a private hired gun. And maybe 
> those "consumer advocates" may actually just be looking out for the 
> best interests of less technical people on the net.
> 
> Maybe the FDA is not really just trying to scare you into using their 
> buddies: http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/ResourcesForYou/ucm080588.htm

Yes, The FDA is right you should not buy any drugs unless prescribed by a
doctor and bought in a licensed pharmacy. Indeed, prevention is better than
cure. Informing customers is a crucial part of that. Now, if the customer
does not want to listen and is stupid enough to buy counterfeit Viagra by
e-mail from an unknown seller, I don't have much compassion for this jerk. 
As long as there will be people willing to buy counterfeit drugs, offer
will meet demand. That is the basic rule of capitalism. 

That does not mean we should not try to catch those bandits, but this is
what our tax dollars/euros are supposed to pay for. If the law enforcement
agencies do not have enough resources to do the right job, I would go to my
congressman and ask him to better spend the citizen's money. But I won't do
the police's job in lieu of the police. 

> Maybe I have spoken to a few too many victims that have lost money 
> they will never see ever again recently. Also they will never see 
> justice in about 99.9% of the cases. Some of these victims are 
> "registrants" that actually never registered a domain, but their 
> credit cards were used. Their whois is there for all to see without 
> their permission. 

And indeed, this proves the point that the WHOIS is basically useless,
full of fake data. My secret hope would be that one day we would have a
WHOIS database so accurate that we would have Ussama Bin Laden's real home
address in the WHOIS. But that will never happen, because we know that
those would want to hide themselves will always find ways to fake their
identity. This is as old as humanity. If you would ever convince ICANN to
prohibit the use of proxy and privacy services, you would see people using
other ways to hide themselves for good and not so good reasons. 

> At the moment the greatest threat to privacy is irresponsible private 
> and proxy registrations: There, I've said it.

Please define "irresponsible". It is irresponsible for me, as an
individual, to not want my private home address and phone number out on
display to the whole wide world ?  

> Since we are now also talking about "hired guns" and "e-vigilante": 
> What happens if you notify a registrar and the authorities of 
> nefarious websites with fake registration details and they do nothing 

The registrars and registries I know (YMMV, of course) would take
appropriate actions if presented with evidence by a relevant authority.
Obviously, they are far less reactive with complaints originating from
lesser known organizations. Their job is to provide a technical service,
not to be the judges themselves. 

> It is also easy passing the buck, but delivering nothing constructive 
> to a recognized problematic issue. However, if we are to pass the 
> buck, how about then slapping a $20 surcharge onto domains for law 
> enforcement agencies worldwide that are now supposed to be the garbage 
> collectors in a system with ills they themselves have asked to be 
> corrected and were not? I

Conceptually, cybercriminality is just another form of crime. There are
laws, and agencies to enforce them. As I said earler, this is what we pay
taxes for. Maybe we do not pay enough. But I do not see why honest domain
name registrants should pay a surcharge in order to give authorities enough
resources to catch a few criminals that happen to use domain names. Would
you agree to pay a surcharge on your checking account fees in order to help
fight money laundering ? 

This is an issue for the whole society, just like any other form of
selling of counterfeit goods. Domain names are just a tool for a business.
We need to fight the criminal business, whatever tool they use. And this is
far outside the remit of ICANN. 

Patrick

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