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I agree with you Bill,<br>
<br>
There is no evidence that such a TLD is usefull and brings an added
value. There is evidence that DNS abusers stand near in the back
office of Dot.Zip though.<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Louis Houle</pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Le 2023-05-29 à 17:31, Bill Jouris via
NA-Discuss a écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:731316.2136233.1685395877804@mail.yahoo.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div class="ydp8766fd63yahoo-style-wrap"
style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif;font-size:16px;"> </div>
<blockquote style="margin: 0 0 0 40px; border: none; padding:
0px;">
<div class="ydp8766fd63yahoo-style-wrap"
style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">"<span><span
style="font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif;"> It appears that some ICANN stakeholders
feel they can make money from an expanded TLD namespace
and potentially add value to end users too." </span></span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="ydp8766fd63yahoo-style-wrap"
style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span
style="font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif;"><br>
</span></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span
style="font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif;">I am struggling to see the potential added
value of a TLD like .ZIP. Well, except for someone
desiring to propagate some malware, of course. How much
money from DNS Abusers there may be to be made, I don't
know. But it appears that someone thinks there are enough
would-be DNS Abusers out there to make such a TLD
profitable. </span></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span
style="font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif;"><br>
</span></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span
style="font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif;">I would say that, if someone wants to
register a TLD which duplicates a widely used file
extension, the burden should be on them to make a very,
very persuasive case for why such a TLD is needed. If
ICANN's current procedures do not provide for such a
review, well then the procedures are clearly in need of
revision.</span></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span
style="font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif;"><br>
</span></span></div>
<div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><span
style="font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif;">Bill Jouris</span></span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yahoo_quoted_5423375043" class="yahoo_quoted">
<div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial,
sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
<div> On Monday, May 29, 2023 at 05:49:44 AM PDT, David Mackey
via NA-Discuss <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org"><na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org></a>
wrote: </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div id="yiv7826900065">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Evan,
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>Thank you for bringing up the topic of TLD and
File Extension namespace collisions. I had not
considered this topic before, but I believe
it merits attention. </div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>The ZIP domain is only one example of the more
general problem where TLD and File Extension
namespaces. Other examples coming from ccTLD
namespace are .PL (Poland vs Perl Script) and .SH
(Saint Helena and Shell Script). An interesting
detailed discussion on this complexity can be found
<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect"
target="_blank"
href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35930160"
moz-do-not-send="true">here</a>. The fact there
are already namespace collisions, does not diminish
the need for us to pay attention to it when
expanding TLD namespace. </div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>From a strictly end user's perspective, I think
it's safe to conclude that TLD and File Extension
namespace collisions do have the potential to add
cognitive load to an end user's ability to safely
navigate domain name space. </div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>ICANN's policy development takes into account a
number of different stakeholders. It appears that
some ICANN stakeholders feel they can make money
from an expanded TLD namespace and potentially add
value to end users too. As with many things in life,
there are tradeoffs to be made. </div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>I don't have a strong opinion about ICANN policy
at the moment, but it does seem wise for those
stakeholders that wish to make money from a new TLD
namespace asset (e.g. ZIP), to be aware of end user
harms that can result from their new asset. </div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>An end user market that does not trust a new
domain name because of abuse due to File Extension
confusion will diminish the value of the new TLD
asset for any business which chooses to purchase
this asset. Yes, marketing can cover up DNS abuse
problems, but it may be wise for business
stakeholders to avoid the use of high risk new
domain names to achieve their business goals. This
type of feedback is not directly connected to ICANN
policy of course, but market forces can be useful.
The ICANN End User community can help raise
awareness, which you have started with your email,
even if we don't have effective policy mechanisms in
place to avoid potential future problems. </div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>By the way, is NA-Discuss the right mailing list
for this discussion? Would this thread be better in
the CPWG mailing list?</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
<div>David</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
<br clear="none">
<div class="yiv7826900065gmail_quote">
<div id="yiv7826900065yqt16248"
class="yiv7826900065yqt0458059709">
<div dir="ltr" class="yiv7826900065gmail_attr">On
Mon, May 29, 2023 at 7:34 AM Louis Houle via
NA-Discuss <<a rel="nofollow noopener
noreferrer" shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a>>
wrote:<br clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;"
class="yiv7826900065gmail_quote">
<div> Indeed. And as Ross pointed it, I can't see
the real benefits of such a TLD but I do see the
risks it brings!<br clear="none">
<pre>Louis Houle</pre>
<div>Le 2023-05-28 à 20:12, Jonathan Zuck via
NA-Discuss a écrit :<br clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"> Certainly seems
worthwhile to me and outweighs the value of
having a .zip domain
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div
id="yiv7826900065m_-5747761940736362124ms-outlook-mobile-signature"><b>Jonathan
Zuck</b>
<div><i>Director</i>, Future of Work Project</div>
<div>Innovators Network Foundation</div>
<div><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer"
shape="rect" target="_blank"
href="http://www.InnovatorsNetwork.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">www.InnovatorsNetwork.org</a></div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%;">
<div dir="ltr"
id="yiv7826900065m_-5747761940736362124divRplyFwdMsg"><font
style="font-size:11pt;" face="Calibri,
sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b>
Evan Leibovitch <a rel="nofollow noopener
noreferrer" shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:evan@telly.org"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:evan@telly.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><evan@telly.org></a><br
clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, May 28, 2023 8:09:11
PM<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> Jonathan Zuck <a rel="nofollow
noopener noreferrer" shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org></a><br
clear="none">
<b>Cc:</b> NARALO Discussion List <a
rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer"
shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org></a><br
clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [NA-Discuss]
Protecting the public interest: dot-zip</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:tahoma,
sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);"> Very
likely the name collision assessment
came up clean -- against other domains.</div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,
sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);"> But
that's not the issue here.</div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,
sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);"> Is
there any requirement for applicants to
do due diligence regarding collisions
with other common non-DNS computer uses
of the applied string?</div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,
sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);"> <br
clear="none">
</div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,
sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);"> There
are some precedents, notably dot-onion
being unavailable to reduce collision
with the TOR network (which is certainly
out of ICANN's jurisdiction).<br
clear="none">
</div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,
sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);"> But I
don't know if, for instance, there would
be any inherent ICANN-based opposition
to anyone applying for, say, dot-exe or
dot-bat (which, like zip, is also a
dictionary word).</div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,
sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);"> <br
clear="none">
</div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,
sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);">
Perhaps there is room to develop advice
to have a mechanism that measures
evaluates conflict not just with other
domains, but also common computer uses
that could if implemented cause pubic
confusion or harm.<br clear="none">
</div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,
sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);"> There
are a LOT of file extensions and not all
need to be protected, but surely the
most common file extensions (and perhaps
also command-line utilities) need
protections.</div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,
sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);"> I see
that dot-run is delegated, which could
affect Linux systems (which run a lot of
the Internet's infrastructure).</div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,
sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);"> So is
dot-mov which is a popular Apple file
extension for videos.<br clear="none">
</div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,
sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);"> <br
clear="none">
</div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,
sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);">
Anyway, I leave it with NARALO's ALAC
reps to determine if this issue is
sufficiently end-user to care about and
investigate.<br clear="none">
</div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,
sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);"> <br
clear="all">
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div
style="text-align:center;">
<div
style="text-align:left;">Evan
Leibovitch, <span
style="font-size:12.8px;">Toronto
Canada</span></div>
<div
style="text-align:left;"><span
style="font-size:12.8px;">@evanleibovitch / </span> <span
style="font-size:12.8px;">@el56</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br clear="none">
</div>
<br clear="none">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">On Sun, May 28, 2023 at
7:35 PM Jonathan Zuck <<a
rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer"
shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">JZuck@innovatorsnetwork.org</a>>
wrote:<br clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex;">
<div>
<div>I wonder what sort of risk
assessment .ZIP has for the name
collision study.</div>
<div
id="yiv7826900065m_-5747761940736362124x_m_864610406444416246ms-outlook-mobile-signature">
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<b>Jonathan Zuck</b>
<div><i>Director</i>, Future of Work
Project</div>
<div>Innovators Network Foundation</div>
<div><a rel="nofollow noopener
noreferrer" shape="rect"
target="_blank"
href="http://www.InnovatorsNetwork.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">www.InnovatorsNetwork.org</a></div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
<hr
style="display:inline-block;width:98%;">
<div dir="ltr"
id="yiv7826900065m_-5747761940736362124x_m_864610406444416246divRplyFwdMsg"><font
style="font-size:11pt;"
face="Calibri, sans-serif"
color="#000000"><b>From:</b>
NA-Discuss <<a rel="nofollow
noopener noreferrer"
shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">na-discuss-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a>>
on behalf of Evan Leibovitch via
NA-Discuss <<a rel="nofollow
noopener noreferrer"
shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a>><br
clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, May 27,
2023 4:18:34 PM<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> NARALO Discussion List
<<a rel="nofollow noopener
noreferrer" shape="rect"
ymailto="mailto:na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">na-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a>><br
clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> [NA-Discuss]
Protecting the public interest:
dot-zip</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:tahoma,
sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);">While
my hopes that ALAC will champion
this are dim, and ICANN itself
is even less likely to act, I
draw your attention to a policy
goof that is already causing
public harm and is likely to
cause far more.</div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,
sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);"><br
clear="none">
</div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,
sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);">Now
anyone can buy a dot-zip
second-level domain, ie evan.zip
or naralo.zip<br clear="none">
</div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,
sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);"><br
clear="none">
</div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,
sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);">As
anyone who works with computers
should know, long before dot-zip
was a domain it was a very
popular computer-file extension
to denote something that
contained a file (or collection
of files) in compressed form.
Such a collection could easily
contain malicious data or code.<br
clear="none">
</div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,
sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);"><br
clear="none">
</div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,
sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);">Is
anyone seeing the problem?
People could be sent
"attachments" that are really
URLs and URLs that are really
attachments. The potential for
end-user confusion and harm is
immense.<br clear="none">
</div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,
sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);"><br
clear="none">
</div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,
sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);">Here
are two videos that explain the
situation well:<br clear="none">
<a rel="nofollow noopener
noreferrer" shape="rect"
target="_blank"
href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCVJsz7EODA"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCVJsz7EODA</a><br
clear="none">
<a rel="nofollow noopener
noreferrer" shape="rect"
target="_blank"
href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V82lHNsSPww"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V82lHNsSPww</a></div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,
sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);"><br
clear="none">
</div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,
sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);">Is
anyone in domain-world looking
at this?</div>
<div style="font-family:tahoma,
sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);"><br
clear="none">
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div
style="text-align:center;">
<div
style="text-align:left;">Evan
Leibovitch, <span
style="font-size:12.8px;">Toronto Canada</span></div>
<div
style="text-align:left;"><span
style="font-size:12.8px;">@evanleibovitch / </span> <span
style="font-size:12.8px;">@el56</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<br clear="none">
<fieldset></fieldset>
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Visit the NARALO online at <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.naralo.org">http://www.naralo.org</a>
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