[NA-Discuss] Update on Consumer Constituency Charter Changes

Beau Brendler beaubrendler at earthlink.net
Fri May 6 15:58:24 UTC 2011


   Those interested in the Consumer Constituency, may I ask that you read the
   exchange between Rosemary Sinclair (in which she has excerpted the comments
   of others) below. Please offer any comments as soon as possible. I think
   most of us involved in this would like to see it move forward without too
   much further delay.
   Thanks
   Beau

     -----Forwarded Message-----
     From: Beau Brendler
     Sent: May 6, 2011 11:52 AM
     To: Rosemary Sinclair , Alex Gakuru , ncsg-ec at n4c.eu
     Subject: Re: : Update on Consumer Constituency Charter Changes
     Thanks for this.
     So the suggested new mission statement is this, correct?:

     The intended purpose of the Consumers Constituency is to serve as the
     conduit for consumer interests as they relate to those areas of the
     Internet within the scope of ICANN.  As representatives of consumers, who
     are  using  the Internet to purchase or use goods and services, the
     Constituency will focus on aspects of DNS that impact on consumers such as
     safety, security, stability, usability, access and any other appropriate
     concerns to ensure these are adequately represented within ICANN policy
     development.


     The CC will work to promote competition, consumer trust, and consumer
     choice in the DNS marketplace.
     With your permission, I will forward this around to some folks who have
     been involved in the CC for a while and see what they think. My guess is
     that there will be no problem. I'd like to forward it to NA-Discuss,
     possibly other ICANN lists.
     I'll give you some thoughts in the form of pros and cons.
     Pros first:
     * Going back to the purchasing goods and services thing is fine with me.
     In fact, there was some language in the previous CC proposed charters that
     was very similar. There's a con to this as well, see below for cons.
     * Seems to me this is a good way to delineate what is in the purview of
     the NCUC and what is in the purview of CC. In fact, some people have
     suggested that we should call it "consumer protection constituency"
     instead of just consumer. I'm fine either way. However, the NCUC could
     rightly argue that their mission involves consumer protection as well,
     specifically on privacy issues, so I'll just note that here.
     * This language would certainly be easier for consumer organizations
     (Consumentenbond, Test-Achat, my former employer, etc.) to grab onto.
     * I like the reference presumably to the AOC in the part that says: "The
     CC will work to promote competition, consumer trust, and consumer choice
     in the DNS marketplace." Parroting some of the ICANN aspirational language
     would seem to be important at this phase in a bureaucratic and political
     sense.
     Cons next:
     * The terms "consumer" and "consumer choice" really seem to derail people.
     When  Alex and I convened the meeting in San Francisco, most of the
     feedback we got was discomfort with these terms and their meaning. So
     there is still an audience out there in the community who don't yet
     understand where "end-users" or "regular folks" fit in to the mix here, or
     within the NCUC. Further, if we are going to use the word "consumer
     choice" in the mission, then I would be in favor of defining what exactly
     that means, because I don't really know, and neither did several members
     of the ICANN board I spoke to in SF. Does that refer to the pricing of
     services offered by registrars and registries, etc.? Similarly, what is
     meant by "competition"?
     * Generally speaking, though the group Alex and I convened in SF was
     small, there was a lot of dissatisfaction with limiting the scope of the
     consumer  constituency  to  purchase of goods and services. I don't
     necessarily agree with that dissatisfaction. However, the more generalized
     proposed mission statement of the constituency that we came up with after
     SF, and that Milton is probably referring to in his comment, was literally
     "written" by the audience who attended that meeting on what the CC should
     be about, not by Alex or by me -- we really just shaped the feedback. So
     there is some alienation risk of that community, but I don't think that
     should hold us back from moving forward.
     * In other conversations with members of the ICANN board I had, there was
     limited to no agreement on what the word "consumer" means. So however we
     go forward, I think we have to be clear on how (and by whom) the plain old
     "end-user" or regular human being is being represented in GNSO policy
     making.
     * Can a reasonable argument be made, in light of the current NCUC mission
     language,  that the Consumer Constituency, with its emphasis on the
     purchasing of goods and services, etc., therefore be better aligned with
     commercial  or business interests? I'm not saying it should, but am
     wondering if that argument will be made. And I assume that issue would be
     addressed by the characteristics of the consumer constituency itself.
     *  This  purchasing  of goods and services language precedes Alex's
     involvement in the formation of the constituency, so I don't know what his
     comfort level with that language is. Alex, what do you think?

     -----Original Message-----
     From: Rosemary Sinclair
     Sent: May 5, 2011 9:02 PM
     To: Alex Gakuru , Beau Brendler , ncsg-ec at n4c.eu
     Subject: : Update on Consumer Constituency Charter Changes

   Hi Alex and Beau


   Here are some comments/discussion from NCSG EC on the proposed Consumer
   Charter


   Iâve included the latest comments from email discussion below for you to see
   how our thinking has been evolving


   We think itâs best for you to have a look now and let us know how youâd like
   to proceedâ¦


   Cheers


   Rosemary


   Milton wrote: 


   But in that case they are not âconsumersâ they are âusersâ. What I am trying
   to avoid is a fragmentation of âuserâ representation across NCUC and CC.
   Each âconstituencyâ should have a clearly circumscribed domain and not
   purport to speak for each other.

    

   ROSEMARY wrote:


   but some goods and services may be "free" ....so I included "use"


   From: Milton L Mueller [mailto:mueller at syr.edu]

   Sent: Thursday, 28 April 2011 1:15 AM

   To: ncsg-ec at n4c.eu; Avri Doria

   Subject: [ncsg-ec] RE: Rosemary - Update on Consumer Constituency Charter
   Changes


   This looks just about right to me. The purchase of goods and services seems
   an  inalienable  part  of  our  concept  of  âconsumerâ so I like this
   clarification. But I am still confused by the phrase âwho are using the
   internet to purchase _or use_ goods and servicesâ ?? Is that an inadvertent
   typo,  or are you referring to digital goods or services that are used
   online? If the latter, then we still donât need the extra âor useâ because
   before you can use goods and services as a consumer you need to purchase
   them.



   From: Rosemary Sinclair [mailto:Rosemary.Sinclair at atug.org.au]

   Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 8:52 PM

   To: ncsg-ec at n4c.eu; Avri Doria

   Subject:  [ncsg-ec] Rosemary - Update on Consumer Constituency Charter
   Changes


   Hi all


   Always an interesting processâ¦clarifying the focus

   Also raises question of where NCUC Charter review is up toâ¦.

   Iâve made some changes to Mission to try to capture some of info below on
   Consumer Policy


   1.1              Mission[KB1]


   The  intended purpose of the Consumers Constituency is to serve as the
   conduit for consumer interests as they relate to those areas of the Internet
   within the scope of ICANN.  As representatives of consumers, who are using
   the Internet to purchase or use goods and services, the Constituency will
   focus on aspects of DNS that impact on consumers such as safety, security,
   stability, usability, access and any other appropriate concerns to ensure
   these are adequately represented within ICANN policy development.


   The CC will work to promote competition, consumer trust, and consumer choice
   in the DNS marketplace




   To compare with âNon-commercialââ¦.NCUC Charter draft saysâ¦


   The purposes of the Noncommercial Users Constituency are to represent

   the views and interests of those who engage in noncommercial speech

   and activity on the Internet. It is further created to provide a voice and

   representation in ICANN processes to non-profit organizations and

   individuals that serve non-commercial interests and provide services such

   as education, community organizing, promotion of the arts, public interest

   policy advocacy, children's welfare, religion, scientific research, human

   rights and the advancement of the Internet as a global communications

   system for all segments of society.




   Cheers



   Rosemary Sinclair

   Managing Director, ATUG

   Chairman, INTUG

   T:  +61  2  94958901  begin_of_the_skype_highlighting            +61 2
   94958901      end_of_the_skype_highlighting  F: +61 2 94193889

   M:    +61   413734490   begin_of_the_skype_highlighting            +61
   413734490      end_of_the_skype_highlighting

   Email: rosemary.sinclair at atug.org.au

   Skype: rasinclair


   Please visit the ATUG website for Updates and Information www.atug.com.au



   -----Original Message-----
   From: Rosemary Sinclair
   Sent: Friday, 22 April 2011 3:29 PM
   To: Avri Doria; ncsg-ec at n4c.eu
   Subject: RE: [!! SPAM] SPAM-LOW: Fwd: [ncsg-ec] Fwd: Forward: Update on
   Consumer Constituency Charter Changes


   Hi Avri and everyone


   I've made a couple of comments in the "Mission" section...looking for a link
   to the AOC ....which I have always seen as a mechanism for mainstreaming the
   consumer interests in ICANN processes....just a thought!


   I have just "dumped" the words where I think they might go...not attempt at
   elegance


   Not sure how we get a view from Alex/Beau on how they feel about this.....


   Cheers


   Rosemary



   Rosemary Sinclair

   Managing Director, ATUG

   Chairman, INTUG

   T:  +61  2  94958901  begin_of_the_skype_highlighting            +61 2
   94958901      end_of_the_skype_highlighting  F: +61 2 94193889

   M:    +61   413734490   begin_of_the_skype_highlighting            +61
   413734490      end_of_the_skype_highlighting

   Email: [1]rosemary.sinclair at atug.org.au

   Skype: rasinclair


   Please visit the ATUG website for Updates and Information [2]www.atug.com.au

   ______________________________________________________________________

   From: Avri Doria [mailto:avri at psg.com]
   Sent: Thursday, 21 April 2011 7:16 AM
   To: Rosemary Sinclair
   Subject: [!! SPAM] SPAM-LOW: Fwd: [ncsg-ec] Fwd: Forward: Update on Consumer
   Constituency Charter Changes




   Begin forwarded message:

   From: Avri Doria <[3]avri at acm.org>

   Date: 14 April 2011 16:43:07 GMT+02:00

   To: NCSG EC <[4]ncsg-ec at n4c.eu>

   Subject: [ncsg-ec] Fwd: Forward: Update on Consumer Constituency Charter
   Changes


   Hi,


   Alex Gakuru and Beau Brendler  have finished the merging of their respective
   groups and are submitting their charter for the Consumer Constituency for
   NCSG Executive Committee review and approval.


   Please review and let's discuss on the list.


   thanks


   a.



   Begin forwarded message:

   From: Alex Gakuru <[5]gakuru at gmail.com>

   Date: 14 April 2011 14:54:18 GMT+02:00

   To: Avri Doria <[6]avri at acm.org>

   Cc:  Konstantinos  Komaitis  <[7]k.komaitis at strath.ac.uk>, Robin Gross
   <[8]robin at ipjustice.org>, Milton L Mueller <[9]mueller at syr.edu>

   Subject: Re: Forward: Update on Consumer Constituency Charter Changes

   Dear Avri,
   I requested your advice after San Francisco CC meeting via below message.
   Could it have been lost to your spam filters?
   At this point, yes, please accept it a formal submission to NCSG Policy and
   excuse the route?
   regards,
   Alex

References

   1. mailto:rosemary.sinclair at atug.org.au
   2. http://www.atug.com.au/
   3. mailto:avri at acm.org
   4. mailto:ncsg-ec at n4c.eu
   5. mailto:gakuru at gmail.com
   6. mailto:avri at acm.org
   7. mailto:k.komaitis at strath.ac.uk
   8. mailto:robin at ipjustice.org
   9. mailto:mueller at syr.edu



More information about the NA-Discuss mailing list