<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Hi Hank<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Thanks for confirming my points.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">As PSL states: "It is in the interest of Internet registries to see that their section of the list is up to date.”. Exactly. It is up to the contracted parties to deal with the matter, not the Internet user community.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">xkcd's picture expresses colourfully - although in B&W - what I stated, we are sometimes at the mercy of creative developers upon which some bits and pieces of the Internet infrastructure might have been built. This affects users, of course, but the solution is not to be found in users’ approach, nor in ICANN’s supposed supervisory powers, but in a self-managed behaviour of the software industry. It is upon this industry to develop according to standards and not to personal intuitions of developers, to make sure that a maintenance path is designed and enforced, that audit trails are implemented, etc. What the mainstream IT industry has learned at its own expenses at the eve of the year 2000 seems to be still ignored by large part of the commercial Internet software development industry, where creative approaches are the rule to bring fast to the market products that are poorly tested, not even to speak about adherence to standards.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I am not neglecting that we have a problem, I am just saying that At-Large is not the right place where to raise the issue asking for solutions.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Cheers,</div><div class="">Roberto</div><div class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 13.09.2023, at 19:22, Hank Nussbacher via At-Large <<a href="mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org" class="">at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta charset="UTF-8" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">On 13/09/2023 17:55, Roberto Gaetano via At-Large wrote:</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Welcome to the world of PSL -<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="https://publicsuffix.org/" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">https://publicsuffix.org/</a><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">xkcd nailed it:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/2347:_Dependency" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/2347:_Dependency</a><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Regards,</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><span style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Hank</span><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><br style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=""><blockquote type="cite" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class="">Folks,<br class=""><br class="">While I agree with Evan that most Internet users don’t know and don’t care about some less used TLDs - in the same way as most drivers and car buyers don’t know and don’t care about some less used car brands - I am missing something about the “problem" that started this thread, i.e.:<br class=""><br class=""> */Developers of major pieces of internet software, including the<br class=""> world’s most-popular messaging app, may be relying on seriously<br class=""> outdated lists of top-level domains./*<br class=""><br class=""><br class="">There is one single authoritative source of information, maintained by IANA, that is the root zone file. Why on earth should ICANN maintain a second one? This fancy tendency by developers (I can say that, as I have been in that business for decades) to rely on alternate sources of information and/or make incorrect assumptions (like assuming that TLDs are max 3 chars long, except for ARPA) is the root cause of most of the problems.<br class=""><br class="">By the way, when we say “One world, one Internet” we implicitly condemn having alternate or secondary sources of information about the Internet components.<br class=""><br class="">Cheers,<br class="">Roberto<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">On 13.09.2023, at 15:50, Evan Leibovitch via At-Large <<a href="mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org" class="">at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a>> wrote:<br class=""><br class="">Can't say that I'm surprised. Welcome to the totally predictable consequences of ICANN's:<br class=""><br class=""> * Insisting that it's not a regulator<br class=""> * Making "global" decisions without weight of international treaty<br class=""> * Expanding the gTLD space *well* beyond that which benefits<br class=""> Internet users.<br class=""><br class="">At-Large's most useful activity is to document and publicize the list of gTLDs unrecognized by the Android library, and to encourage ICANN to engage with Android developers to update the library.<br class=""><br class="">It should be telling that nobody has noticed this problem that has existed since 2015, and that the news appeared in an industry news site rather than in the IT mainstream. That tells me that most Internet end-users don't know and don't care about these other domains.<br class=""><br class="">There's a lesson here to be learned.<br class=""><br class="">Evan Leibovitch, Toronto Canada<br class="">@evanleibovitch / @el56<br class=""><br class=""><br class="">On Tue, Sep 12, 2023 at 10:43 AM Dev Anand Teelucksingh via At-Large <<a href="mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org" class="">at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a>> wrote:<br class=""><br class=""> "*Developers of major pieces of internet software, including the<br class=""> world’s most-popular messaging app, may be relying on seriously<br class=""> outdated lists of top-level domains.*<br class=""><br class=""> That’s the picture that seems to be emerging from one new gTLD<br class=""> operator’s quest to discover why WhatsApp doesn’t recognize its<br class=""> TLD, and many others including major dot-brands, as valid."<br class=""><br class=""> ....When most social media apps detect the user has inputted a<br class=""> URL or domain name, they automatically “linkify” it so it can be<br class=""> easily clicked or tapped without the need for copy/paste.<br class=""><br class=""> But when Rami Schwartz of new gTLD .tube discovered that .tube<br class=""> URLs sent via WhatsApp, said to have two billion users, were not<br class=""> being linkified, despite the TLD being delegated by ICANN almost<br class=""> eight years ago, he set out to find out why.<br class=""><br class=""> Schwartz compiled a spreadsheet (.xlsx) listing which gTLDs are<br class=""> recognized by WhatsApp and which are not and discovered a rough<br class=""> cut-off point in November 2015. TLDs delegated before then are<br class=""> linkified, those delegated after were not......This means that,<br class=""> for example, .microsoft domains linkify but .amazon and .apple<br class=""> domains do not; .asia domains linkify but .africa and .arab<br class=""> domains do not; .london works but .abudhabi doesn’t. Even<br class=""> .verisign missed the cut-off.<br class=""><br class=""> If WhatsApp users include a “www.” or “http://” then the app will<br class=""> linkify the domain, even if the specified TLD does not exist.<br class=""><br class=""> .....During the course of a discussion<br class=""> <<a href="https://github.com/publicsuffix/list/issues/1807" class="">https://github.com/publicsuffix/list/issues/1807</a>> on the web<br class=""> site of the Public Suffix List — which maintains an open-source<br class=""> list of all TLDs and the levels at which names may be registered<br class=""> — it was discovered that the problem may be deeper rooted than<br class=""> the WhatsApp app.<br class=""><br class=""> It turns out a library in the Android operating system<br class=""> <<a href="https://cs.android.com/android/platform/superproject/main/+/main:frameworks/base/core/java/android/util/Patterns.java;l=114" class="">https://cs.android.com/android/platform/superproject/main/+/main:frameworks/base/core/java/android/util/Patterns.java;l=114</a>><br class=""> contains a hard-coded list of valid TLDs which hasn’t been<br class=""> updated since November 24, 2015"<br class=""><br class=""> Read full article :<br class=""> <a href="https://domainincite.com/29054-is-this-why-whatsapp-hates-some-tlds-but-not-others" class="">https://domainincite.com/29054-is-this-why-whatsapp-hates-some-tlds-but-not-others</a><br class=""><br class=""><br class=""> Regards,<br class=""><br class=""> Dev Anand Teelucksingh<br class=""> _______________________________________________<br class=""> At-Large mailing list<br class=""> <a href="mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org" class="">At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a><br class=""> <a href="https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large" class="">https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large</a><br class=""><br class=""> At-Large Official Site: <a href="http://atlarge.icann.org" class="">http://atlarge.icann.org</a><br class=""> _______________________________________________<br class=""> By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing<br class=""> of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing<br class=""> list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy<br class=""> (<a href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy" class="">https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy</a>) and the website Terms of<br class=""> Service (<a href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos" class="">https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos</a>). 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