<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">It is common in the discourse at ICANN to look at various existing power blocs and see how they can be improved. The discussion whether the CEO should vote or not is an example. Unfortunately, this is just one tree, and the improvements ICANN needs are more structural in nature and require a view of the forest.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I can see the point of having technical supporting organizations, who do after all have some expertise to offer decision makers. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The other groupings at ICANN are not providing expert advice, they are providing lobbying. But instead of lobbying ICANN with a common voice, they fight with each other. This is what happens when people are divided into groups. I’m not making this up, there are numerous studies showing that simply dividing a group of people into two groups will cause them to quite quickly become hostile toward each other other. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The best-known psychological study of this phenomenon is called The Robbers Cave, see <a href="https://www.thoughtco.com/robbers-cave-experiment-4774987" class="">https://www.thoughtco.com/robbers-cave-experiment-4774987</a>. In it, two randomly selected groups of boys were sent to a summer camp to see if they would co-operate or fight or something in between. The hypothesis for the study was "when two [or more] groups have conflicting aims… their members will become hostile
to each other even though the groups are composed of normal
well-adjusted individuals.” The study showed this to be so. It also showed that when the two groups were asked to work toward a common goal, hostility decreased substantially. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">ICANN is basically this study on steroids. Everyone wants to reform ICANN, everyone dislikes the lack of transparency, that secret hallway discussions do more to advance causes than open debate, that public input is clearly an onerous duty that the staff would much rather avoid, the half-truths and prevarications, and on and on. I haven’t met anyone who doesn’t like these and other characteristics of ICANN the organization. And yet nothing changes. The reason nothing changes is that these groups are more interested in their turf wars with one another than in tackling the issues with the now-entrenched paranoia and secrecy that characterizes staff interactions with participants. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">If you want to reform ICANN, it has very little to do with who gets a vote on the Board. If you want to reform it, you have to do away with these groupings and have everyone who is not staff in one big group who can speak with one voice. This would discourage distrust and hostility, and encourage participants to form common interest with those who feel the same way they do, without worrying about the official position of the intellectual property people, or the registrars, or ALAC, or whoever. Until the participants feel free to speak with one voice, they won’t, and staff will go on doing whatever they want because there is no will to hold them to account. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Unless you encourage democracy through structural change that encourages its formation and practice, you’ll never have it, or its attendant virtues such as transparency, co-operation, and the ability to mobilize against a common threat. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Until that is done, ICANN will continue to be the best governance that money can buy. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jul 28, 2022, at 10:58 AM, Karl Auerbach via At-Large <<a href="mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org" class="">at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class=""><p class="">I do agree with you that the question whether the President CEO
gets a *voting* seat on the board of directors is a relatively
small matter. (And I believe that a CEO/President does need to
usually sit among the board of directors and speak on matters -
his/her input is very important and ought to carry a lot of
weight.)</p><p class="">The road to an improved ICANN is not a short road. Removing the
President/CEO's ex-officio voting power on the board is but one,
small step.</p><p class="">But it is a step. And it is an easy step. And it is a step that
can be decided now but can put into practice later, perhaps at the
next re-making of the employment contract.</p><p class="">There are harder, bigger steps. For example, elimination of the
nominating committee process, which itself my require as a
pre-condition establishment of ICANN as the kind of member based
organization described by the California public-benefit/non-profit
law that gives legal existence to ICANN and that ICANN so
desperately tried to evade in the 1997-2000 time frame.</p><p class="">The Internet is facing some big issues, issues larger than ICANN
itself but for which ICANN may indicate paths best to avoid. Just
as ICANN seems excessively influenced by commercial actors the
Internet as a whole is being increasingly influenced by commercial
and national actors who care little whether the Internet (capital
'I') becomes a collection of "internets" (lower case 'i'), or
whether we continue to use IPv4/6 or something else like 5G or <span class="">Huawei</span>'s
new IP protocol designs. As we push harder for more security we
will increasingly need to face the question of maintenance and
repair and whether we will need to establish some means, some body
of people, who have special authorities and powers to penetrate
security to reach in, examine, and manipulate the net. Such a
"priesthood" of privileged actors might not bother large
commercial or national interests, but it ought to be of great
concern to individuals. And if our future bodies of i/Internet
governance are structured, as is ICANN, to enervate the public
voice, or to dilute it under layers of organizations and
procedures, then our voice in such decisions will be muted or
lost.</p><p class=""> --karl--<br class="">
</p><p class=""><br class="">
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 7/28/22 4:54 AM, Seun Ojedeji wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:CAD_dc6gdh+odxOLs78aw8br+RG_a2Kn0heqkiivGNYXzu4Q8sw@mail.gmail.com" class="">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" class="">
<div dir="auto" class="">Hello Karl,
<div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div dir="auto" class="">I hear you but the last I checked ICANN Board
membership is filled by the community in part and indirectly
filled by the community(through nomcom) for the rest of the
board members. It therefore seem that ICANN profile fits that
of an organisation whose CEO should be a voting member. </div>
<div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div dir="auto" class="">I really don't think the CEO power is derived
from that single vote; if the CEO is already acting powerful
and beyond control of the Board, that single vote won't be the
breaker IMO the power must have been wielded elsewhere and
perhaps with support of the Board majority </div>
<div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div dir="auto" class="">Regards<br class="">
<div data-smartmail="gmail_signature" dir="auto" class="">Sent from
my mobile<br class="">
Kindly excuse brevity and typos<br class="">
Every word has consequences.<br class="">
Every silence does too!</div>
</div>
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, 27 Jul 2022, 20:42
Karl Auerbach, <<a href="mailto:karl@cavebear.com" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">karl@cavebear.com</a>>
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class=""><p class="">I agree with you that the voice of the President of a
corporation is often a voice that ought to be heard and
considered by the board of directors.</p><p class="">However, a President that is allowed to sit at, hear, and
contribute to meetings of the board is not not the same as
a President who can do those things *and* vote.</p><p class="">Many, but not all, corporations do find it useful to
allow a President/CEO to be a voting board member.<br class="">
</p><p class="">ICANN, however, has long had an imbalance with a weak
board facing a powerful executive staff.</p><p class="">In such a situation a staff vote, i.e. the President's
vote, on the board, merely increases that imbalance by
weakening the chosen board and strengthening the executive
staff.</p><p class="">Were ICANN to have a stronger board - a likely result
were the board picked by the public through direct
elective processes - then perhaps the President could have
a vote. But given the present institutional board
selection process it is unwise to increase the
staff/executive dominance.</p><p class=""> --karl--</p><p class=""><br class="">
</p>
<div class="">On 7/27/22 11:19 AM, Seun Ojedeji wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div dir="auto" class="">Hello Roberto,
<div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div dir="auto" class="">Just as you've noted instances where the
CEO may be embarrassed if an issue he voted went a
different direction, there are instances that I
believe the CEO will be glad he contributed his voice
through voting. </div>
<div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div dir="auto" class="">The CEO's vote is just 1 out of the
other votes to be cast hence if his vote made a
difference then you know it's a really contentious
matter. In an organisation as ICANN it's not good
practice to put the face of the organisation (i.e the
CEO in an observer role - non voting).</div>
<div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div dir="auto" class="">That said, most reasonable CEOs don't
actively use their voting right towards a direction,
they largely abstain but I think the CEO should have
the opportunity to exercise his opinion through voting
when he considers it necessary.</div>
<div dir="auto" class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div dir="auto" class="">Regards<br class="">
<br class="">
<div data-smartmail="gmail_signature" dir="auto" class="">Sent
from my mobile<br class="">
Kindly excuse brevity and typos<br class="">
Every word has consequences.<br class="">
Every silence does too!</div>
</div>
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, 27 Jul 2022,
10:42 Roberto Gaetano via At-Large, <<a href="mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a>>
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space" class="">
Karl,
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Following on your “off-topic” (I changed the
subject line) I wold like to add a bit of history.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">You wrote:</div>
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class=""><p class=""><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif" class="">A
lot of our BWG proposals are still quite
relevant, for instance, not putting the
President/CEO into a seat on the board of
directors ….</font></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">When I was chairing the Board Review WG, I
argued against having the CEO as a voting member
rather than ex-officio observer. Besides any
governance model, having to vote on issues that he
would have been called to execute could put the
CEO in an embarrassing position: what if he voted
against, and the motion passed? This was, IMHO,
not just a theoretical exercise, but something
that could really happen on politically sensitive
issues, like the .xxx delegation (in that case,
Paul abstained, and the application was rejected
by one or two votes).</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">My approach was considered, but the Chair
argued that for the current CEO the provision was
built in the contract, and could not be changed,
but this would have been taken into account for
the next CEO. Then I left the Board, and lost
track of the later events, but it looks that the
situation still remains unchanged.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Cheers,</div>
<div class="">Roberto</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On 26.07.2022, at 21:39, Karl Auerbach
via At-Large <<a href="mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="">
<div class="">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class=""><p class="">I'm going to be somewhat diverging from
the main topic....<br class="">
</p>
<div class="">On 7/26/22 8:14 AM, Marita Moll
wrote:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" class=""><p class=""><font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif" class="">And so it is with ICANN. It
exists -- a unique multistakeholder
governance system. Lots of things
wrong with it. But it exists. So,
for those who want to, they can keep
working at it, keep looking for
improvement, keep challenging the
system.</font></p>
</blockquote><p class=""><font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif" class="">I've long been in opposition to
the "stakeholder" model of
governance. I was horrified when I
first saw it </font><font face="Times
New Roman, Times, serif" class=""><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif" class="">just
after Jon Postel died</font>, and
became more horrified watching Joe
Sims of Jones Day ramming it down our
collective throats. In the Boston
Working Group proposal for "NewCo" we
tried to mitigate some of the worst
aspects.</font></p><p class=""><font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif" class="">See <a href="https://cavebear.com/archive/bwg/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">
https://cavebear.com/archive/bwg/</a>
for the Boston Working Group
proposals.</font></p><p class=""><font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif" class="">A lot of our BWG proposals are
still quite relevant, for instance,
not putting the President/CEO into a
seat on the board of directors and
moving some ICANN powers into the
Articles of Incorporation and
requiring exercise of those powers to
be approved by more than merely the
board (in those days that larger body
could have been "the members" but
ICANN sank that ship long ago - but it
can be, and ought to be, re-floated.)<br class="">
</font></p><p class=""><font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif" class="">My most recent piece in
opposition to stakeholder based
systems may be found here:</font></p><p class=""><font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif" class="">Democracy Versus Stakeholderism
- <a href="https://www.cavebear.com/cavebear-blog/stakeholder_sock_puppet/" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">
https://www.cavebear.com/cavebear-blog/stakeholder_sock_puppet/</a><br class="">
</font></p><p class=""><font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif" class=""> --karl--</font></p><p class=""><font face="Times New Roman, Times,
serif" class=""><br class="">
</font></p>
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