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    <p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">I am with Vanda on
        this one. I was on the board of CIRA, which manages the .ca
        domain name. CEO advises the board, attends all meetings, but
        does not vote. I think it would be a governance improvement if
        this was corrected at ICANN when the next contract comes around.
        This has nothing to do with Goran or his tenure. I think it is
        just a better model. As Vanda says, he might even agree. What is
        being gained here from the potential conflict of interest?<br>
      </font></p>
    <p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Marita</font><br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2022-07-28 8:50 a.m., Vanda
      Scartezini via At-Large wrote:<br>
    </div>
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        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US">Hi
            all, I am in several not for profit boards and In none of
            them the CEO is a vote member. The CEO participate ex oficio
            – but not vote, as Karl said, some times the CEO can be put
            in an embarrassing situation which is not a good governance
            at all. See no reason to change this even in the contract. I
            do not believe Goran will be against it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt" lang="EN-US">This
            is just good governance  ( good practice)</span><span
            style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
          1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
          <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span
                style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From:
              </span></b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">At-Large
              <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org"><at-large-bounces@atlarge-lists.icann.org></a> on behalf
              of Alan Greenberg via At-Large
              <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org"><at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org></a><br>
              <b>Date: </b>Wednesday, 27 July 2022 15:07<br>
              <b>To: </b>Roberto Gaetano
              <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com"><roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com></a>, Karl Auerbach
              <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:karl@cavebear.com"><karl@cavebear.com></a><br>
              <b>Cc: </b>At Large
              <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org"><at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org></a><br>
              <b>Subject: </b>Re: [At-Large] Voting seat for CEO Was:
              Re: ICANN75: Mandatory Funded Traveler Registration for
              Roberto Gaetano<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Roberto, the
            excuse of it being in the CEO contract is twaddle! If that
            was accepted by Board members, it is shameful. If the change
            is warranted (and good) - as I believe it was and is, even
            if the contract was inviolate, the Bylaws could be written
            with a transition clause saying it applied to future CEOs.<br>
            <br>
            Alan<br>
            <br>
            At 2022-07-27 05:41 AM, Roberto Gaetano via At-Large wrote:<br>
            <br>
            <br>
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Karl, <br>
              <br>
              Following on your â€śoff-topic” (I changed the subject
              line) I wold like to add a bit of history.<br>
              <br>
              You wrote:<br>
              <br>
              <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><br>
              </span><span
                style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New
                Roman",serif">A lot of our BWG proposals are still
                quite relevant, for instance, not putting the
                President/CEO into a seat on the board of directors ….</span><span
                style="font-size:11.0pt">><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          </blockquote>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><br>
              When I was chairing the Board Review WG, I argued against
              having the CEO as a voting member rather than ex-officio
              observer. Besides any governance model, having to vote on
              issues that he would have been called to execute could put
              the CEO in an embarrassing position: what if he voted
              against, and the motion passed? This was, IMHO, not just a
              theoretical exercise, but something that could really
              happen on politically sensitive issues, like the .xxx
              delegation (in that case, Paul abstained, and the
              application was rejected by one or two votes).<br>
              <br>
              My approach was considered, but the Chair argued that for
              the current CEO the provision was built in the contract,
              and could not be changed, but this would have been taken
              into account for the next CEO. Then I left the Board, and
              lost track of the later events, but it looks that the
              situation still remains unchanged.<br>
              <br>
              Cheers,<br>
              Roberto<br>
              <br>
              <br>
              <br>
              <br>
              <br>
              <o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">On
                26.07.2022, at 21:39, Karl Auerbach via At-Large <<a
                  href="mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org"
                  moz-do-not-send="true">
                  at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a>> wrote:<br>
                <br>
                I'm going to be somewhat diverging from the main
                topic....<br>
                On 7/26/22 8:14 AM, Marita Moll wrote:<br>
                <br>
                <o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><br>
                </span><span
                  style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New
                  Roman",serif">And so it is with ICANN. It exists
                  -- a unique multistakeholder governance system. Lots
                  of things wrong with it. But it exists. So, for those
                  who want to, they can keep working at it, keep looking
                  for improvement, keep challenging the system.</span><span
                  style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </blockquote>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><br>
              </span><span
                style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New
                Roman",serif">I've long been in opposition to the
                "stakeholder" model of governance.  I was horrified when
                I first saw it just after Jon Postel died</span><span
                style="font-size:11.0pt">, and became more horrified
                watching Joe Sims of Jones Day ramming it down our
                collective throats.  In the Boston Working Group
                proposal for "NewCo" we tried to mitigate some of the
                worst aspects.<br>
                <br>
              </span><span
                style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New
                Roman",serif">See <a
                  href="https://cavebear.com/archive/bwg/"
                  moz-do-not-send="true">
                  https://cavebear.com/archive/bwg/</a> for the Boston
                Working Group proposals.<br>
              </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><br>
              </span><span
                style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New
                Roman",serif">A lot of our BWG proposals are still
                quite relevant, for instance, not putting the
                President/CEO into a seat on the board of directors and
                moving some ICANN powers into the Articles of
                Incorporation and requiring exercise of those powers to
                be approved by more than merely the board (in those days
                that larger body could have been "the members" but ICANN
                sank that ship long ago - but it can be, and ought to
                be, re-floated.)<br>
              </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><br>
              </span><span
                style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New
                Roman",serif">My most recent piece in opposition to
                stakeholder based systems may be found here:<br>
              </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><br>
              </span><span
                style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New
                Roman",serif">Democracy Versus Stakeholderism -
                <a
                  href="https://www.cavebear.com/cavebear-blog/stakeholder_sock_puppet/"
                  moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.cavebear.com/cavebear-blog/stakeholder_sock_puppet/</a><br>
              </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><br>
              </span><span
                style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New
                Roman",serif">            --karl--<br>
              </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><br>
              </span><span
                style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Times New
                Roman",serif"><br>
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      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
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By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy">https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy</a>) and the website Terms of Service (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos">https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos</a>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.</pre>
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