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    <p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Yes, Roberto. We have
        been signing Google and other platform waivers for some time.
        When we do this, we agree to give up our right to our
        information in return for using their services. Always made me
        uncomfortable but I needed to use these services. When I sign
        the ICANN waiver, I am giving up my right to sue them in return
        for the permission to attend the meeting. Trouble is, I would be
        attending this meeting as part of their voluntary workforce.
        Something lopsided about that. Does ICANN need us there, or not?
        <br>
      </font></p>
    <p>Sorry to be so provocative. The current version of the waiver is
      much improved. The whole issue has, however, opened a whole new
      box of questions about the relationship between ICANN and its
      volunteers. Unintended consequences?</p>
    <p>Marita<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2022-07-25 11:21 a.m., Roberto
      Gaetano via At-Large wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:13D64EB0-3702-42FD-8CDE-61527AB5DCD7@hotmail.com">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div class="" style="word-wrap:break-word;
        line-break:after-white-space">Bill,
        <div class=""><br class="">
        </div>
        <div class="">I fully understand that this is a legitimate
          lawyer’s attitude - but I still get an odd feeling reading it.
          For the record, I have signed the waiver without any problems,
          as I sign all the agreement notes that I get from Google and
          the like before doing just about anything on the internet.</div>
        <div class=""><br class="">
        </div>
        <div class=""><br class="">
        </div>
        <div class="">Karl,</div>
        <blockquote class="" style="margin:0 0 0 40px; border:none;
          padding:0px">
          <div class="">
            <p class="" style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><i
                class="">And where is the text of this waiver, a few
                simple web searches have not revealed it (yet)?</i></p>
          </div>
        </blockquote>
        <div class="">It appears during the process of registration for
          on-site participation to ICANN 75, I have attached a copy
          below.</div>
        <div class=""><br class="">
        </div>
        <div class="">Cheers,</div>
        <div class="">Roberto</div>
        <div class=""><br class="">
        </div>
      </div>
      <div class="" style="word-wrap:break-word;
        line-break:after-white-space">
        <div class=""><br class="">
          <div><br class="">
            <blockquote type="cite" class="">
              <div class="">On 22.07.2022, at 21:32, Bill Jouris via
                At-Large <<a
                  href="mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org"
                  class="" moz-do-not-send="true">at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a>>
                wrote:</div>
              <br class="x_Apple-interchange-newline">
              <div class="">Hi Roberto, 
                <div class=""><br class="">
                </div>
                <div class="">I think it's more a matter of, not only if
                  something happens to us we cannot sue ICANN.  But if
                  whatever happens is fatal (so we are not around to
                  sue), our estate/heis can't sue either. </div>
                <div class=""><br class="">
                </div>
                <div class="">Lawyers get paid to think up worst case
                  scenarios, and then write clauses to preempt them. 
                  And in a country where there is a whole class of
                  lawyers who will offer to bring a suit for you, with
                  no charge unless they win (in which case, they get a
                  cut of the take), there's a lot of essentially
                  frivolous law suits filed by people for the same
                  reason people buy lottery tickets: small cost to them
                  and an outside chance of a big payday.  But ICANN
                  still has to spend money defending those cases --
                  unless they can get the case dismissed out of hand via
                  a clause like this. </div>
                <div class=""><br class="">
                </div>
                <div class="">Cheers, </div>
                <div class=""><br class="">
                </div>
                <div class="">Bill Jouris <br class="">
                  <br class="">
                  <div id="x_ymail_android_signature" class=""><a
                      id="x_ymail_android_signature_link"
href="https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature"
                      class="" moz-do-not-send="true">Sent from Yahoo
                      Mail on Android</a></div>
                  <br class="">
                  <blockquote class="" style="margin:0 0 20px 0">
                    <div class="" style="font-family:Roboto,sans-serif;
                      color:#6D00F6">
                      <div class="">On Fri, Jul 22, 2022 at 10:35 AM,
                        Roberto Gaetano</div>
                      <div class=""><<a
                          href="mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com"
                          class="" moz-do-not-send="true">roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com</a>>
                        wrote:</div>
                    </div>
                    <div class="" style="padding:10px 0 0 20px;
                      margin:10px 0 0 0; border-left:1px solid #6D00F6">
                      <div id="x_yiv3585886919" class="">
                        <div class="">Hi Bill
                          <div class="x_yiv3585886919"><br
                              class="x_yiv3585886919">
                          </div>
                          <div class="x_yiv3585886919">Not radical, but
                            with some imaginative clauses that sound
                            weird to the ears of somebody that is not a
                            lawyer and does not live in a country that
                            is particularly inclined to solve matters in
                            courts.</div>
                          <div class="x_yiv3585886919"><br
                              class="x_yiv3585886919">
                          </div>
                          <div class="x_yiv3585886919">Here is an
                            example that, if taken seriously, would
                            oblige me to ask some questions:</div>
                          <blockquote class="x_yiv3585886919"
                            style="margin:0 0 0 40px; border:none;
                            padding:0px">
                            <div class="x_yiv3585886919">
                              <div class="x_yiv3585886919"
                                style="margin:0px; font-stretch:normal;
                                line-height:normal; color:rgb(69,69,69)">
                                <i class="x_yiv3585886919">This
                                  Liability Waiver and Release is
                                  specifically binding upon my heirs and
                                  assigns and is knowingly given.</i></div>
                            </div>
                          </blockquote>
                          <div class="x_yiv3585886919"><br
                              class="x_yiv3585886919">
                          </div>
                          <div class="x_yiv3585886919">Do I need to ask
                            my (hopefully future) heirs to also sign the
                            waiver? And if they don’t want, or even
                            produce an official document, signed in the
                            hands of a notary or other official
                            authority, that they specifically do not
                            acknowledge the obligation of being obliged
                            to comply with this clause - maybe saying
                            that they formally recommended that I take
                            this trip, what would happen? How can ICANN
                            enforce this clause in my jurisdiction -
                            actually, in the jurisdiction of my heirs -
                            in front of a formal statement of them prior
                            to the fact? And if I attach this document
                            of my heirs to my application, what would
                            ICANN do? Reject my registration because one
                            of the clauses of the waiver is not
                            enforceable?</div>
                          <div class="x_yiv3585886919"><br
                              class="x_yiv3585886919">
                          </div>
                          <div class="x_yiv3585886919">This is one more
                            reason for loving the ICANN community, never
                            a dull moment and a lot of fun :-)</div>
                          <div class="x_yiv3585886919"><br
                              class="x_yiv3585886919">
                          </div>
                          <div class="x_yiv3585886919">Cheers,</div>
                          <div class="x_yiv3585886919">Roberto</div>
                          <div class="x_yiv3585886919"><br
                              class="x_yiv3585886919">
                          </div>
                          <div class="x_yiv3585886919"><br
                              class="x_yiv3585886919">
                            <div class=""><br class="x_yiv3585886919">
                              <blockquote type="cite"
                                class="x_yiv3585886919">
                                <div class="x_yiv3585886919">On
                                  22.07.2022, at 18:18, Bill Jouris via
                                  At-Large <<a rel="nofollow noopener
                                    noreferrer" target="_blank"
                                    href="mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org"
                                    class="x_yiv3585886919"
                                    moz-do-not-send="true">at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a>>
                                  wrote:</div>
                                <br
                                  class="x_yiv3585886919Apple-interchange-newline">
                                <div class="x_yiv3585886919">As such
                                  things go, this isn't a particularly
                                  radical waiver.  A bit wordier than
                                  average, but nothing novel in
                                  substance.  
                                  <div class="x_yiv3585886919"><br
                                      class="x_yiv3585886919">
                                  </div>
                                  <div class="x_yiv3585886919">Bill
                                    Jouris <br class="x_yiv3585886919">
                                    <br class="x_yiv3585886919">
                                    <div
                                      id="x_yiv3585886919ymail_android_signature"
                                      class="x_yiv3585886919"><a
                                        rel="nofollow noopener
                                        noreferrer"
                                        id="x_yiv3585886919ymail_android_signature_link"
                                        target="_blank"
href="https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature"
                                        class="x_yiv3585886919"
                                        moz-do-not-send="true">Sent from
                                        Yahoo Mail on Android</a></div>
                                    <br class="x_yiv3585886919">
                                    <blockquote class="x_yiv3585886919"
                                      style="margin:0 0 20px 0">
                                      <div class="x_yiv3585886919"
                                        style="font-family:Roboto,sans-serif;
                                        color:#6D00F6">
                                        <div class="x_yiv3585886919">On
                                          Fri, Jul 22, 2022 at 8:20 AM,
                                          Marita Moll via At-Large</div>
                                        <div class="x_yiv3585886919"><<a
                                            rel="nofollow noopener
                                            noreferrer" target="_blank"
href="mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org" class="x_yiv3585886919"
                                            moz-do-not-send="true">at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a>>
                                          wrote:</div>
                                      </div>
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                                        style="padding:10px 0 0 20px;
                                        margin:10px 0 0 0;
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      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
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<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large">https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large</a>

At-Large Official Site: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://atlarge.icann.org">http://atlarge.icann.org</a>
_______________________________________________
By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy">https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy</a>) and the website Terms of Service (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos">https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos</a>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.</pre>
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