<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
</head>
<body>
<p><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif">Yes, Roberto. We have
been signing Google and other platform waivers for some time.
When we do this, we agree to give up our right to our
information in return for using their services. Always made me
uncomfortable but I needed to use these services. When I sign
the ICANN waiver, I am giving up my right to sue them in return
for the permission to attend the meeting. Trouble is, I would be
attending this meeting as part of their voluntary workforce.
Something lopsided about that. Does ICANN need us there, or not?
<br>
</font></p>
<p>Sorry to be so provocative. The current version of the waiver is
much improved. The whole issue has, however, opened a whole new
box of questions about the relationship between ICANN and its
volunteers. Unintended consequences?</p>
<p>Marita<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2022-07-25 11:21 a.m., Roberto
Gaetano via At-Large wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:13D64EB0-3702-42FD-8CDE-61527AB5DCD7@hotmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div class="" style="word-wrap:break-word;
line-break:after-white-space">Bill,
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I fully understand that this is a legitimate
lawyer’s attitude - but I still get an odd feeling reading it.
For the record, I have signed the waiver without any problems,
as I sign all the agreement notes that I get from Google and
the like before doing just about anything on the internet.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Karl,</div>
<blockquote class="" style="margin:0 0 0 40px; border:none;
padding:0px">
<div class="">
<p class="" style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><i
class="">And where is the text of this waiver, a few
simple web searches have not revealed it (yet)?</i></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="">It appears during the process of registration for
on-site participation to ICANN 75, I have attached a copy
below.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Cheers,</div>
<div class="">Roberto</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
</div>
<div class="" style="word-wrap:break-word;
line-break:after-white-space">
<div class=""><br class="">
<div><br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On 22.07.2022, at 21:32, Bill Jouris via
At-Large <<a
href="mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="x_Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">Hi Roberto,
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I think it's more a matter of, not only if
something happens to us we cannot sue ICANN. But if
whatever happens is fatal (so we are not around to
sue), our estate/heis can't sue either. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Lawyers get paid to think up worst case
scenarios, and then write clauses to preempt them.
And in a country where there is a whole class of
lawyers who will offer to bring a suit for you, with
no charge unless they win (in which case, they get a
cut of the take), there's a lot of essentially
frivolous law suits filed by people for the same
reason people buy lottery tickets: small cost to them
and an outside chance of a big payday. But ICANN
still has to spend money defending those cases --
unless they can get the case dismissed out of hand via
a clause like this. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Cheers, </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Bill Jouris <br class="">
<br class="">
<div id="x_ymail_android_signature" class=""><a
id="x_ymail_android_signature_link"
href="https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">Sent from Yahoo
Mail on Android</a></div>
<br class="">
<blockquote class="" style="margin:0 0 20px 0">
<div class="" style="font-family:Roboto,sans-serif;
color:#6D00F6">
<div class="">On Fri, Jul 22, 2022 at 10:35 AM,
Roberto Gaetano</div>
<div class=""><<a
href="mailto:roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">roberto_gaetano@hotmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
</div>
<div class="" style="padding:10px 0 0 20px;
margin:10px 0 0 0; border-left:1px solid #6D00F6">
<div id="x_yiv3585886919" class="">
<div class="">Hi Bill
<div class="x_yiv3585886919"><br
class="x_yiv3585886919">
</div>
<div class="x_yiv3585886919">Not radical, but
with some imaginative clauses that sound
weird to the ears of somebody that is not a
lawyer and does not live in a country that
is particularly inclined to solve matters in
courts.</div>
<div class="x_yiv3585886919"><br
class="x_yiv3585886919">
</div>
<div class="x_yiv3585886919">Here is an
example that, if taken seriously, would
oblige me to ask some questions:</div>
<blockquote class="x_yiv3585886919"
style="margin:0 0 0 40px; border:none;
padding:0px">
<div class="x_yiv3585886919">
<div class="x_yiv3585886919"
style="margin:0px; font-stretch:normal;
line-height:normal; color:rgb(69,69,69)">
<i class="x_yiv3585886919">This
Liability Waiver and Release is
specifically binding upon my heirs and
assigns and is knowingly given.</i></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="x_yiv3585886919"><br
class="x_yiv3585886919">
</div>
<div class="x_yiv3585886919">Do I need to ask
my (hopefully future) heirs to also sign the
waiver? And if they don’t want, or even
produce an official document, signed in the
hands of a notary or other official
authority, that they specifically do not
acknowledge the obligation of being obliged
to comply with this clause - maybe saying
that they formally recommended that I take
this trip, what would happen? How can ICANN
enforce this clause in my jurisdiction -
actually, in the jurisdiction of my heirs -
in front of a formal statement of them prior
to the fact? And if I attach this document
of my heirs to my application, what would
ICANN do? Reject my registration because one
of the clauses of the waiver is not
enforceable?</div>
<div class="x_yiv3585886919"><br
class="x_yiv3585886919">
</div>
<div class="x_yiv3585886919">This is one more
reason for loving the ICANN community, never
a dull moment and a lot of fun :-)</div>
<div class="x_yiv3585886919"><br
class="x_yiv3585886919">
</div>
<div class="x_yiv3585886919">Cheers,</div>
<div class="x_yiv3585886919">Roberto</div>
<div class="x_yiv3585886919"><br
class="x_yiv3585886919">
</div>
<div class="x_yiv3585886919"><br
class="x_yiv3585886919">
<div class=""><br class="x_yiv3585886919">
<blockquote type="cite"
class="x_yiv3585886919">
<div class="x_yiv3585886919">On
22.07.2022, at 18:18, Bill Jouris via
At-Large <<a rel="nofollow noopener
noreferrer" target="_blank"
href="mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org"
class="x_yiv3585886919"
moz-do-not-send="true">at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br
class="x_yiv3585886919Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="x_yiv3585886919">As such
things go, this isn't a particularly
radical waiver. A bit wordier than
average, but nothing novel in
substance.
<div class="x_yiv3585886919"><br
class="x_yiv3585886919">
</div>
<div class="x_yiv3585886919">Bill
Jouris <br class="x_yiv3585886919">
<br class="x_yiv3585886919">
<div
id="x_yiv3585886919ymail_android_signature"
class="x_yiv3585886919"><a
rel="nofollow noopener
noreferrer"
id="x_yiv3585886919ymail_android_signature_link"
target="_blank"
href="https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature"
class="x_yiv3585886919"
moz-do-not-send="true">Sent from
Yahoo Mail on Android</a></div>
<br class="x_yiv3585886919">
<blockquote class="x_yiv3585886919"
style="margin:0 0 20px 0">
<div class="x_yiv3585886919"
style="font-family:Roboto,sans-serif;
color:#6D00F6">
<div class="x_yiv3585886919">On
Fri, Jul 22, 2022 at 8:20 AM,
Marita Moll via At-Large</div>
<div class="x_yiv3585886919"><<a
rel="nofollow noopener
noreferrer" target="_blank"
href="mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org" class="x_yiv3585886919"
moz-do-not-send="true">at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a>>
wrote:</div>
</div>
<div class="x_yiv3585886919"
style="padding:10px 0 0 20px;
margin:10px 0 0 0;
border-left:1px solid #6D00F6">
_______________________________________________<br
class="x_yiv3585886919"
clear="none">
At-Large mailing list<br
class="x_yiv3585886919"
clear="none">
<a rel="nofollow noopener
noreferrer" shape="rect"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org"
class="x_yiv3585886919"
moz-do-not-send="true">At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a><br
class="x_yiv3585886919"
clear="none">
<a rel="nofollow noopener
noreferrer" shape="rect"
target="_blank"
href="https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large"
class="x_yiv3585886919"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large</a><br
class="x_yiv3585886919"
clear="none">
<br class="x_yiv3585886919"
clear="none">
At-Large Official Site: <a
rel="nofollow noopener
noreferrer" shape="rect"
target="_blank"
href="http://atlarge.icann.org/"
class="x_yiv3585886919"
moz-do-not-send="true">
http://atlarge.icann.org</a><br
class="x_yiv3585886919"
clear="none">
_______________________________________________<br
class="x_yiv3585886919"
clear="none">
By submitting your personal
data, you consent to the
processing of your personal data
for purposes of subscribing to
this mailing list accordance
with the ICANN Privacy Policy (<a
rel="nofollow noopener
noreferrer" shape="rect"
target="_blank"
href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy"
class="x_yiv3585886919"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy</a>)
and the website Terms of Service
(<a rel="nofollow noopener
noreferrer" shape="rect"
target="_blank"
href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos"
class="x_yiv3585886919"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos</a>).
You can visit the Mailman link
above to change your membership
status or configuration,
including unsubscribing, setting
digest-style delivery or
disabling delivery altogether
(e.g., for a vacation), and so
on.
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br
class="x_yiv3585886919">
At-Large mailing list<br
class="x_yiv3585886919">
<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer"
target="_blank"
href="mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org"
class="x_yiv3585886919"
moz-do-not-send="true">At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a><br
class="x_yiv3585886919">
<a
href="https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large</a><br
class="x_yiv3585886919">
<br class="x_yiv3585886919">
At-Large Official Site: <a
href="http://atlarge.icann.org"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">http://atlarge.icann.org</a><br
class="x_yiv3585886919">
_______________________________________________<br
class="x_yiv3585886919">
By submitting your personal data, you
consent to the processing of your
personal data for purposes of
subscribing to this mailing list
accordance with the ICANN Privacy
Policy (<a
href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy</a>)
and the website Terms of Service (<a
href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos</a>).
You can visit the Mailman link above
to change your membership status or
configuration, including
unsubscribing, setting digest-style
delivery or disabling delivery
altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and
so on.</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="x_yiv3585886919">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br
class="">
At-Large mailing list<br class="">
<a href="mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a><br
class="">
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large">https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large</a><br class="">
<br class="">
At-Large Official Site: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://atlarge.icann.org">http://atlarge.icann.org</a><br
class="">
_______________________________________________<br
class="">
By submitting your personal data, you consent to the
processing of your personal data for purposes of
subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the
ICANN Privacy Policy
(<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy">https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy</a>) and the website
Terms of Service (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos">https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos</a>).
You can visit the Mailman link above to change your
membership status or configuration, including
unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or
disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation),
and so on.</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
At-Large mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org">At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large">https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large</a>
At-Large Official Site: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://atlarge.icann.org">http://atlarge.icann.org</a>
_______________________________________________
By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy">https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy</a>) and the website Terms of Service (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos">https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos</a>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.</pre>
</blockquote>
</body>
</html>