<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Sorry. Such waivers were not required in the past and tons of organizations have meetings that do not require such waivers of liability.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">John More<br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Apr 30, 2022, at 9:13 AM, Salanieta T. Tamanikaiwaimaro via At-Large <<a href="mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org" class="">at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="auto" class="">Dear All,</div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">To be clear, removal of the indemnity will just mean more virtual meetings and less physical meetings which saves money for ICANN and is a win win for everyone.</div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">No organisation in their right mind will want to be liable for claims against it especially when hosting events.</div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">This would also mean the end of At Large in an indirect way as volunteers prefer volunteering for the sheer love of the opportunity to meet and discuss their work issues. </div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">Sometimes, we have to pick which battles are worth fighting for.</div><div dir="auto" class=""><br class=""></div><div dir="auto" class="">Sala</div><div class=""><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 at 11:00, Roberto Gaetano via At-Large <<a href="mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org" class="">at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a>> wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space" class="">I have already commented on the matter, and I would like to formally support Marita’s points.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I would also like to add that, while the formal justification by ICANN for the waiver is the COVID situation, the waiver itself covers areas that have nothing to do with the pandemic. Particularly puzzling for me is the following sentence:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 40px;border:none;padding:0px" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin:0px;font-stretch:normal;line-height:normal" class=""><i class="">I agree to indemnify and hold ICANN and its affiliate harmless from and against </i><i class="">any claims, suits, causes of action, loss, liability, damage or costs, including court </i><i class="">cost and attorneys’ fees, and fees to enforce this Agreement, that ICANN may </i><i class="">incur arising from my involvement in the Event.</i></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">IANAL, but my understanding is that I should indemnify ICANN for any legal action, even if brought forward by third parties, if there is any relation to my “involvement” in the event (and may I stress “involvement”, not “participation” or “attendance”). And that can be related to anything, even injuries caused by the fall of a loosely fixed object.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">My question is how could I continue trusting ICANN when ICANN shows this distrust in my participation as volunteer? Regardless the final result of the matter, something has definitively been broken. And I fully agree with Alfredo Calderón, how can we explain this to the newcomers? I have myself a responsibility towards newcomers, as NextGen Mentor, and could not refuse to sign the waiver because this would have meant deprive my mentees from a personal presence and support in Den Haag - but I am furious about this situation.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Cheers,</div><div class="">Roberto</div></div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space" class=""><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 30.04.2022, at 01:29, Maureen Hilyard via At-Large <<a href="mailto:at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org" target="_blank" class="">at-large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">Dear At-Large Community<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">If you have been following the At-Large community discussion list, you will have noted the concern that has been raised about a waiver that ICANN is imposing on the volunteer community to provide their signature to the document, as a prerequisite to being granted travel sponsorship to attend F2F ICANN Meetings. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The waiver absolves ICANN of any responsibility for an ICANN participant'sgetting ill or is harmed in any way, even if it is ICANN's fault. This is the core concern for us as volunteers. It is seen as an unreasonable ask of volunteers who have always known that they have to take responsibility for themselves not only when attending ICANN meetings, but also when they participate in other F2F meetings and working group activities that occur in between ICANN meetings. We can appreciate that ICANN needs to protect itself, but while doing so they should not abdicate their duty of care to all those members of the ICANN community who have dedicated many years to providing personal inputs into ICANN's important work - to produce policy that will help to protect the DNS. It is taken for granted that "years" is the normal measurement in time which is required to produce formal outputs from ICANN.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">During the At-Large community discussions, a raft of reasons developed which related to how this waiver that has been imposed as a pre-requisite to any travel support, impacts volunteer communities throughout ICANN. These reasons were noted and transformed into a list of 10 reasons why the waiver is not one of the best decisions that has come out of ICANN - more especially because it did not adhere to one of its core principles "the bottom-up, multistakeholder model". </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I have called the ALAC members together to make a decision about the waiver (the invitations for them to do so is below) to seek their support for "<b class="">the waiver and the expectation that it is signed before any travel sponsorship is provided, to be withdrawn</b>" Although we have to consider that this course of action may not be actionable before ICANN74, we would ultimately like to return to what was the practice of the past when the community was trusted. We have always known that we were attending ICANN meetings at our own risk and would not have earlier contemplated taking action against ICANN for any illness or harm that might befall us if it was the fault of the individual during an ICANN meeting. There was also some need to address the section that had been identified as a key sticking point "<i style="font-family:ArialMT" class="">I knowingly and freely assume all risks related to illness and infectious diseases, including but not limited to COVID-19, <b class="">even if arising from the negligence or fault of ICANN</b> "</i></div><div class=""><i style="font-family:ArialMT;font-size:16px" class=""><br class=""></i></div><div class="">I already have a majority of the ALAC members who have immediately added their support to my request to submit Marita's 10 reasons why the waivers should be removed, <b class="">as the basis of our Advice to the Board that the waiver be withdrawn</b>. In case they are otherwise engaged, other ALAC members still have a bit of time to respond (by Sunday 1 May 23.59utc) before the request is formally submitted as ALAC advice to the Board.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><b class="">Although many of our community already participated earlier, I would hope that others in our At-Large community will also support this request. Please let me know if you would like to add your name to our letter of Advice to the Board.</b></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Maureen</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">---------- Forwarded message ---------</div><div class=""><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">From: <strong class="gmail_sendername" dir="auto">Maureen Hilyard</strong> <span dir="auto" class=""><<a href="mailto:maureen.hilyard@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">maureen.hilyard@gmail.com</a>></span><br class="">Date: Fri, Apr 29, 2022 at 11:14 PM<br class="">Subject: Advice to the Board?<br class="">To: ALAC Members <<a href="mailto:ALAC-members@icann.org" target="_blank" class="">ALAC-members@icann.org</a>><br class=""></div><br class=""><br class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">Dear ALAC members<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">It has been suggested that we propose Marita's email to the community as ADVICE to the Board of the community's feelings about the waiver, so that the Board has to officially respond.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Earlier messages of concern about other issues about volunteer support have only been noted because they were not formal advice, even though they reflected many discussions by the At-Large community, particularly during the pandemic. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">If you have any concerns about this summary list, please let me know before Sunday 23.59UTC. I think it is an important issue and that we need to make sure that it is given the consideration that it deserves. I realise that any change may not happen for ICANN74 but if can address these issues for future meetings we will have achieved something at least.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I look forward to a yay or nay from members about sending this as advice.</div><div class="">Regards</div><div class="">Maureen</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div style="font-size:0.875rem;padding:20px 0px 0px;font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif" class=""><br class=""><span class=""></span><table cellpadding="0" style="border-collapse:collapse;margin-top:0px;width:auto;font-size:0.875rem;letter-spacing:0.2px;display:block" class=""><tbody style="display:block" class=""><tr style="height:auto;display:flex" class=""><td style="white-space:nowrap;padding:0px;vertical-align:top;width:695.906px;line-height:20px;display:block;max-height:20px" class=""><table cellpadding="0" style="border-collapse:collapse;table-layout:fixed;width:695.906px" 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no-repeat;padding:0px;vertical-align:baseline;height:20px;width:20px;border:none;margin:0px 0px 0px auto;display:flex;opacity:0.54" class=""></div></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></div><div id="m_6293310114729335624m_-5064686965629134025m_7693110267995074368m_7166478101159470868gmail-:abk" style="font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:inherit" class=""><div class=""></div><div class=""></div><div class=""></div><div class=""></div></div><div style="font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:inherit" class=""><div class=""></div><div id="m_6293310114729335624m_-5064686965629134025m_7693110267995074368m_7166478101159470868gmail-:a82" class=""></div><div id="m_6293310114729335624m_-5064686965629134025m_7693110267995074368m_7166478101159470868gmail-:abl" style="direction:ltr;margin:8px 0px 0px;padding:0px;font-size:0.875rem" class=""><div id="m_6293310114729335624m_-5064686965629134025m_7693110267995074368m_7166478101159470868gmail-:a81" style="font-variant-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:small;line-height:1.5;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;overflow:hidden" class=""><div class=""></div><div class=""><div class=""></div><p class=""><font color="#0000ff" class="">With apologies to former late show host David Letterman and thanks to all those who provided input, here are my top 10 reasons why this waiver is a bad idea for ICANN and for the community: <br class=""></font></p><div class=""><br class=""></div><p style="margin-bottom:0cm" class=""><font color="#0000ff" class="">10. It is insensitive to the global community as it can be interpreted as an exportation of U.S.-based litigious culture</font></p><p style="margin-bottom:0cm" class=""><font color="#0000ff" class="">9. It disregards the fact that participants at ICANN meetings have always willingly and knowingly accepted personal responsibility for health issues that arise during meetings</font></p><p style="margin-bottom:0cm" class=""><font color="#0000ff" class="">8. It is a disincentive to attending ICANN meetings in person, thereby damaging the ability of the community to work together</font></p><p style="margin-bottom:0cm" class=""><font color="#0000ff" class="">7. Concerns which have arisen throughout the community about the broad scope of the waiver are not being addressed – including legal opinions warning potential participants against signing.</font></p><p style="margin-bottom:0cm" class=""><font color="#0000ff" class="">6. No one is taking ownership of this waiver. The Board position on it is unclear</font></p><p style="margin-bottom:0cm" class=""><font color="#0000ff" class="">5. There has been no general explanation to the community or any attempt seek buy-in for this waiver</font></p><p style="margin-bottom:0cm" class=""><font color="#0000ff" class="">4. This kind of blanket waiver could be unenforceable and in that case, serves only as intimidation</font></p><p style="margin-bottom:0cm" class=""><font color="#0000ff" class="">3. The waiver infringes on individual rights</font></p><p style="margin-bottom:0cm" class=""><font color="#0000ff" class="">2. ICANN appears to be abandoning its duty of care to the participating community who are voluntarily contributing their time and energy to fulfilling ICANN's mandate to operate as a bottom-up multistakeholder organization</font></p><p style="margin-bottom:0cm" class=""><b class=""><font color="#0000ff" class="">Top reason why this waiver is a really bad idea:</font></b></p><p style="margin-bottom:0cm" class=""><b class=""><font color="#0000ff" class="">1. It leaves a lasting unpleasant taste in the mouths of participants contributing to ICANN's multistakeholder model -- which is presented as a source of pride and accomplishment to the internet governance community.</font></b></p><p style="margin-bottom:0cm" class=""><font color="#0000ff" class="">Marita (now signing off on this topic -- thanks for bearing with me)</font></p></div></div></div></div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div>
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By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (<a href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy</a>) and the website Terms of Service (<a href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" class="">https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos</a>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.</blockquote></div></div>-- <br class=""><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="">"<span style="background-color:transparent;font-family:Georgia;font-size:1.575em;color:rgb(61,61,61)" class="">The entrance of Your words gives light;</span></div><div style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 36pt; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 1em; vertical-align: baseline; line-height: 34px; color: rgb(61, 61, 61); font-family: "Source Sans Pro", sans-serif;" class=""><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-size:1.575em;vertical-align:baseline;background:transparent;font-family:Georgia" class="">It gives understanding to the </span><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-size:1.575em;vertical-align:baseline;background:transparent;font-family:Georgia" class="">simple".<br class=""></span></div><div style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 36pt; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 1em; vertical-align: baseline; line-height: 34px; color: rgb(61, 61, 61); font-family: "Source Sans Pro", sans-serif;" class=""><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px;border:0px;outline:0px;font-size:1.575em;vertical-align:baseline;background:transparent;font-family:Georgia" class="">Psalms 119:130</span></div></div></div></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br class="">At-Large mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org" class="">At-Large@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a><br class="">https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large<br class=""><br class="">At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org<br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy) and the website Terms of Service (https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.</div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></body></html>