[At-Large] Sonoma Valley Hospital loses 3-letter domain name to hijackers

Sat Aug 24 05:38:48 UTC 2019

Hi,
I think Karl has made a good suggestion as to where the discussion should
begin, and whois information is being covered already with the GDPR
discussion.
 We can focus on the number of years before renewal. 100 years as suggested
might be too long, but I also think it should be more than 10 years, maybe
20 years.
Thanks

Abdulkarim

On Sat, Aug 24, 2019 at 5:05 AM Jonathan Zuck <JZuck at innovatorsnetwork.org>
wrote:

> Of course thus is all different under gdpr so hardly worth the discussion
>
> Jonathan Zuck
> Executive Director
> Innovators Network Foundation
> www.Innovatorsnetwork.org
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* At-Large <at-large-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org> on behalf of
> Karl Auerbach <karl at cavebear.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, August 23, 2019 6:15:50 PM
> *To:* Evan Leibovitch <evan at telly.org>
> *Cc:* ICANN At-Large list <at-large at atlarge-lists.icann.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [At-Large] Sonoma Valley Hospital loses 3-letter domain
> name to hijackers
>
> Let's not let the word "property" or "ownership" color this discussion -
> those words tend to drag-in a lot of preconceived notions.
>
> In law (at least in the US) there really is no such thing as
> "ownership".  Rather various people (and governments, and other legally
> recognized entities such as corporations) may have various (and often
> overlapping) kinds of rights and duties with respect to a thing.  We
> generally accord the word "owner" to whoever/whatever has the biggest
> collection of those rights/duties.
>
> Your concept of ICANN "owning" all domain names is interesting, however,
> because there can be multiple domain name systems, that would require a
> context such as "all domain names registered under such-and-such root
> zone file".   Moreover, usually such a vast grant of ownership tends to
> require a governmental level of delegation - the days of Conquistadors
> planting flags are largely in our past.  ;-)
>
> Given ICANN's history of kow-towing to certain industrial/governmental
> interests would we really want to accord this additional level of
> authority?
>
> Moving on...
>
> I find it better to consider the rights/duties surrounding domain names
> as contractual rights/duties.  That tends to remove any lingering
> preconceptions that come from words like "property".
>
> ICANN as it is presently established does operate on the basis of
> contract rights and duties.  (What is typically missing in the world of
> ICANN is the concept of "third party beneficiary" rights, which is the
> legal notion that a person - an intended or explicity beneficiary of the
> contract - but who is outside the contractual relationship may have the
> power to enforce terms of that contract.)
>
> Getting back to whois...
>
> I would assert that the data mining of whois has been a source of abuse
> of domain name registrants to at least the same degree, and perhaps a
> greater degree, than any asserted abuse by spammers. Virtually every
> person I know who has domain names has become the subject of a the
> hurricane of scam phone calls and emails originating from whois mined
> contact information.  And that hurricane does not stop - I'm still
> getting stuff that is based on whois information that became obsolete
> 30+ years ago.  A large number of people have turned off their
> telephones - a fact that recognizes that ill-minded people are modern
> day Vandals who are undermining our modern culture as much as the elder
> Vandals undermined Classical Rome.
>
> You raise the scenario of a person having to pay money to report a
> crime.  It is true that there is no $$ fee for that, but there are laws
> that make false reports a crime - make a false report and you could end
> up in jail yourself.
>
> There is no friction, no penalty, no nothing against anonymously
> perusing whois and redistributing that information.  There are sometimes
> some notices of dubious legal applicability and enforceability.  But
> when was the last time you read about a whois data miner going to jail
> or suffering a penalty?
>
> There's a balance to be made here.  However the status quo is anything
> but a balance.  The access to whois is free and easy, without penalty,
> cost, or friction; it can be made anonymously on a whim or mere
> curiosity - or as part of a mechanized data scraping operation.  On the
> other side there is a violation of privacy, without prior-notice that
> the privacy will be violated, note of who violated that privacy, or what
> accusation, if any, is being made to justify that intrusion.
>
> Is if no wonder that registry privacy services are so popular?
>
>          --karl--
>
>
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