[At-Large] Fwd: [council] Final Issue Report on New gTLD Subsequent Procedures

Kan Kaili kankaili at gmail.com
Sat Dec 19 20:57:53 UTC 2015

Thanks a lot, Alan and Dev Anand.

Now, it seems like there were some serious disagreements on this issue from the very begining, not exactly a consensus as usual.  I will try to study these documents you provided.

Thanks again.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dev Anand Teelucksingh" <devtee at gmail.com>
To: "Alan Greenberg" <alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca>
Cc: "Kan Kaili" <kankaili at gmail.com>; "Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond" <ocl at gih.com>; "Carlton Samuels" <carlton.samuels at gmail.com>; "John R. Levine" <johnl at iecc.com>; "At-Large Worldwide" <at-large at atlarge-lists.icann.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2015 2:47 AM
Subject: Re: [At-Large] Fwd: [council] Final Issue Report on New gTLD Subsequent Procedures

Dear Kaili

Just to post the link to the recordings of The Board Session at the
ICANN 41 meeting on Monday which passed the resolution to launch the
gTLD program: http://singapore41.icann.org/node/24505

It wasn't just George Sadowsky who voted no, Bruce Tonkin and Mike
Silber also abstained.

Dev Anand

On Sat, Dec 19, 2015 at 12:40 PM, Alan Greenberg
<alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca> wrote:
> Hi Kaili,
> If you were at that meeting *AND* remember what was said, I don't think you
> are eligible to be called a newcomer any more!
> For better or worse, ICANN preserves pretty much everything. You can find
> that transcript at
> http://singapore41.icann.org/meetings/singapore2011/transcript-board-new-gtlds-20jun11-en.txt
> , If you search for the second occurrence of "sadowsky", you will find what
> you are looking for. It was a rather unusual Board meeting held immediately
> after the opening session on Monday. I always presumed it was held on the
> Monday instead of the traditional end-of-the-week time to allow time for
> partying and self-congratulations.
> To find pretty much everything available from past meetings, go to the
> Meetings site at https://meetings.icann.org/en/. It is always (hopefully)
> pointed to from the ICANN home page in the box talking about the upcoming
> meeting. from there, click on the top navigation menu item "Calendar and
> Archives". The ICANNnn links point to the specific meeting site.
> Alan
> At 19/12/2015 11:13 AM, Kan Kaili wrote:
> Talking about the new gTLD program, I remember attending the 2011 ICANN 41
> in Singapore.  As I remember, that time George Sadowski was the only Board
> member who voted against it.  Maybe some of his opinions, as well as records
> of the debate, could shed some light for new comers like me to better
> understand the issue.
> I just wonder where I can find this.  Anybody can help?  Thank you.
> Kaili Kan
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Carlton Samuels
> To: Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond
> Cc: John R. Levine ; At-Large Worldwide
> Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2015 10:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [At-Large] Fwd: [council] Final Issue Report on New gTLD
> Subsequent Procedures
> I can attest to all that Olivier has recorded here.  Our colleague Evan
> Leibovitch, as penholder on the ALAC statement on PAG had a greater task
> keeping us focused on the priority topics than finding grist for what was
> wrong with the details of the program, at least from our perspective.
> We were the first to call the Morality and Public Order clause odious and an
> assault on common sense.  And despite the severe criticism the ALAC, to its
> credit, did not back off our interest in the Applicant Support initiative.
> This never met expectations. But at least we were in the fight. We should be
> proud of the body of work from the ALAC in that period.
> -Carlton
> ==============================
> Carlton A Samuels
> Mobile: 876-818-1799
> Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround
> =============================
> On Fri, Dec 18, 2015 at 1:06 PM, Olivier MJ Crepin-Leblond <ocl at gih.com>
> wrote:
> Dear Christopher,
> sorry I am only picking this up now - it was filed in the wrong folder.
> My comments below:
> On 09/12/2015 20:08, Christopher Wilkinson wrote:
>> Hmmm … following a brief readd (there are 160 pp.), it would appear:
>> 1.  That there was no attempt to update the 2010 economic studies, which
>> were considered to be adequate.
> The economic study (which can be found at
> https://www.icann.org/news/announcement-2010-12-03-en ) was published in
> two parts, such was the pressure on ICANN to be able to tick the
> "economic study" box that had been set along the path to launching the
> new gTLD process. From memory, a public consultation on these reports
> was never launched. The only ALAC comment relating to the Applicant
> Guidebook & the new gTLD program was here:
> http://atlarge.icann.org/correspondence/statement-agbv5-08dec10-en.pdf
> As you can see, the ALAC was not happy about a number of things which
> then came back to bite ICANN later on. "told you so"
> In the meantime, read the economic study and you'll see how naive and
> rushed it is.
>> 2.  There is one reference to an opinion that the demand for new gTLDs was
>> 'illusory'. Not clear whether this refers to the demand from Registries or
>> from Registrants.
> There was a demand for new gTLDs from potential applicants. Some
> applicants had already "sold" their program to investors and clients. I
> have strong memories of the ICANN public forum having scores of people
> queueing up asking the Board to give the new gTLD program the go ahead,
> and that the applicant guidebook was good enough to be signed off. The
> ALAC view, as you can see from above, was that it wasn't ready. That
> introduced some tension all around, with some people accusing the ALAC
> that it was against new gTLDs and that this position was counter to
> Internet end users out there who couldn't register domain names in an
> already crowded space. The ALAC stood by its position but was completely
> ignored. Moreover you'll note that there's a complete fumble on ICANN's
> part with regards to Registrant Rights & Responsibilities with a botched
> "Registrant Benefits" part and "Registrant Rights" sub-part. Anyway ---
> very poor follow-up on this on ICANN's part.
> As a result, I am shedding no tears for any failed new gTLD. I am sorry
> for the end users that are going to be affected and I think that the
> ALAC needs to watch this very closely, to make sure end users who have
> registered domains in new gTLDs are treated well. The ALAC's relevant
> working groups should keep a watch over that. Unfortunately the most
> active participants are already flat out on ICANN Accountability & other
> things, but the WGs would benefit from sharp eyes & tongues.
>> 3.  There are several references to the financial evaluation of the
>> applicants. However, one may wonder what that consisted of as applied to
>> 800+ applicants (and still counting).
>>      I would have to ask how many qualified financial analysts would have
>> been required to do a serious job on so many applications in such a short
>> period of time.
>>      In my time it was called risk analysis; nowadays it is called 'stress
>> tests'.
>> The gist of the report seems to be to recommend a massive new PDP to
>> review and propose what to do next. Every conceivable topic is included,
>> except the economics of the DNS markets and the financial position of the
>> Registries. Perhaps some prioritisation is called for.
> At-Large participants will need to be part of that PDP. Expect it to
> start soon as once again there are forces out there that want another
> application round of Ponz... I mean new gTLDs to start as soon as possible.
> Kindest regards,
> Olivier
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