[At-Large] US v John Doe 1 & Others [Defendants]

John R. Levine johnl at iecc.com
Sun Nov 27 01:34:13 UTC 2011

>> Actually, it says the RIRs on which the order was served.  Was this order served
>> directly on RIPE?  If so, how?  There are treaties about this kind of stuff, it's not
>> as straightforward as you might think.
> The Dutch Police served it on RIPE.  Whether that's proper service is a more nuanced
> question, but once RIPE had actual knowledge of it, it couldn't just ignore it.  There
> was, after all, an order of the Dutch police ordering RIPE to comply with the US court
> order.  Whether a reasonable person (including a reasonable organization for this purpose)
> would just comply with the police order is a different question, but most reasonable
> persons don't just ignore local law enforcement orders.

Well, yes, they had to follow an order of the local police.  I don't see 
why anyone finds that surprising.  As someone else noted, RIPE has not 
said they were served with a US court order, so I see no reason to assume
that they were.

>> Yes, I know some of the people involved.  Is it your opinion that there is something
>> unusual or improper about governments cooperating in a criminal investigation?
> Of course not, but that isn't the issue, is it?  Can the Dutch government, through the
> police, order a non-governmental organization to comply with an order of a US court?

Beats me.  That's an issue of local Dutch law and perhaps interpretations 
whatever treaties are in effect, not a mystical issue of whether RIPE is 
subject to US law.

John Levine, johnl at iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. http://jl.ly

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