[At-Large] U.S. seizure of .ORG domain name

Evan Leibovitch evan at telly.org
Thu Feb 3 22:12:29 UTC 2011


At one level, this outrage happens simply because of the ignorance of people
in thinking that generic names are not associated with a country.

The .com, .org, .net domains are widely thought of as "international" but in
fact they're not -- witness the miniscule use of the ".us" domain.
(Heck, even ".int" isn't truly international, as IANA is US-based and is
subject to the same takedown protocols as .com)

There is a part of me that hopes this action will alert people outside the
US that -- in order to stay outside the bounds of US law -- they need to use
non-US registries and registrars. One would think that some of the more
canny CCTLD operators might even use that issue in marketing.

So if online casinos are illegal in the US, it should be no surprise that
its legal system would take steps to shut down -- to whatever extent that it
could -- "onlinecasino.com". They'd have no jurisdiction, however on "
onlinecasino.co.uk" -- unless that registrant was foolish enough to use a
US-based registrar.

I don't agree that At-Large has much of a political role to play, in that no
country is going to listen to our complaints about content-related domain
seizures. And it's not within our ability -- let alone our expertise -- to
monitor and pass judgement on what content is illegal in all sovereign
countries.

Perhaps, though, we do have a role to play in educating users and
registrants about the choices they make when obtaining a domain, including
issues related to the home location of the registry and registrar. (This
need-to-know also extends to the location of the would-be registrant's
content hosting, but that's way out of ICANN's scope.)

Anything that helps educate the public that there is not a "default" TLD but
a set of choices -- each choice with certain benefits and risks -- is both
useful and within our ability to provide IMO.

- Evan





On 3 February 2011 16:08, Yassin Mshana <ymshana2003 at hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> This is Unspeakable!!!
> It is commonly knowledge that No one Nation or State should interfere with
> events beyond its boundaries - unfortunately there are no boundaries when it
> comes to the Internet.
> Internet-based businesses are lucrative yes! It is time a Government to
> change/review its Customs/Revenue Collection systems not to take actions
> that affect the rest of the Internet communities.
> The GAC should see into this to avoid similar attacks to such a neutral
> media.
> Time for a Change is overdue on this.
>
>
> > Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 08:44:01 +0100
> > From: patrick at vande-walle.eu
> > To: at-large at atlarge-lists.icann.org
> > Subject: Re: [At-Large] U.S. seizure of .ORG domain name
> >
> >
> >
> > I support this, too.
> >
> > I am not discussing here if the site infringed
> > on US laws. This is apparently the case. However, the decision to take
> > down the domain has consequences well outside the territorial boundaries
> > where US laws apply. It gets even worse when there is one court decision
> > of a sovereign country which says that the site is legal. AFAIK, Spain
> > is not a banana republic. I am convinced that due diligence and fairness
> > where followed by Spanish courts.
> >
> > I find it grossly impolite, to say
> > the least, to impose one's legal and moral values to the entire world.
> > This is what needs to transpire from our complaint.
> >
> > Over here, when
> > court decisions order to block web sites, local ISPs are told to either
> > block DNS queries for the domain or null route the IP address. I am not
> > saying this is ideal or even effective. But at least, the impact does
> > not spread beyond the territorial limits of the laws.
> >
> > Patrick
> >
> > >> I
> > would support this.
> > >>
> > >> Btw, the USG has used similar tactics to take
> > down domains that are used for
> > >> online gaming centred on Antigua in
> > the Caribbean . Online gaming is legal
> > >> in Antigua but it matters not
> > to US interests.
> > >>
> > >> Antigua has sought relief at the WTO on areas of
> > WTO jurisdiction and she
> > >> has repeatedly prevailed. Still has not
> > mattered to our Uncle Sam.
> > >>
> > >> Carlton
> > >>
> > >>
> > ==============================
> > >> Carlton A Samuels
> > >> Mobile:
> > 876-818-1799
> > >> Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment &
> > Turnaround
> > >> =============================
> > >>
> > >> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011
> > at 8:58 AM, Adam Peake wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> I propose the At Large/ALAC
> > protest the U.S. government's seizure of
> > >>> domain name
> > Rojadirecta.org.
> > >>>
> > >>> Rojadirecta is a popular sports streaming and
> > P2P download site.
> > >>> Rojadirecta is a legitimate Spanish business. Two
> > Spanish courts have
> > >>> ruled the site operates legally.
> > >>>
> > >>> It
> > seems the U.S. Government Homeland Security's Immigration and
> > >>>
> > Customs Enforcement (ICE) division used the TLD as the means of
> > >>>
> > seizure in an attempt to take down the site. If the action was
> > >>>
> > against the registrar then a registrant would at least have a choice
> > >>>
> > of jurisdiction. But this action on ORG, and the actions on .COM
> > >>>
> > names last November essentially means the U.S. government considers
> > >>>
> > COM, NET and ORG to be nothing more than ccTLDs subject to U.S. whim
> > >>>
> > (this isn't a legal action, there has been no court case, no due
> > >>>
> > process.)
> > >>>
> > >>> Rojadirecta is now available under other TLDs
> > >>>
> >
> > >>> as well its original IP address
> > >>> .
> > >>>
> > >>> Expect there will be
> > a lot written about this, this article's ok as a
> > >>> starting point:
> > >>>
> > <
> > >>>
> >
> http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110201/10252412910/homeland-security-seizes-spanish-domain-name-that-had-already-been-declared-legal.shtml
> > [4]
> > >>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>> I hope At Large will issue a statement
> > protesting the use of the TLD
> > >>> registry as a means of takedown. That
> > it recommends when the NET, ORG
> > >>> and COM contracts are renegotiated
> > they should move to a jurisdiction
> > >>> where such unilateral action by a
> > government is not possible. That
> > >>> the new applicant guidebook require
> > applicants to only locate in
> > >>> jurisdictions where such unilateral
> > action by a government is not
> > >>> possible.
> > >>>
> > >>> Legitimate
> > businesses should not be subject to the whim of a U.S. agency.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > Adam
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> At-Large
> > mailing list
> > >>> At-Large at atlarge-lists.icann.org [5]
> > >>>
> > https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large [6]
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org [7]
> > >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > >> At-Large mailing
> > list
> > >> At-Large at atlarge-lists.icann.org [9]
> > >>
> > https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large [10]
> > >>
> > >>
> > At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org [11]
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > > At-Large mailing
> > list
> > > At-Large at atlarge-lists.icann.org [12]
> > >
> > https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large [13]
> > >
> > >
> > At-Large Official Site: http://atlarge.icann.org [14]
> >
> > --
> > Blog:
> > http://patrick.vande-walle.eu
> > Twitter:
> > http://twitter.vande-walle.eu
> >
> >
> >
> > Links:
> > ------
> > [1]
> > http://www.rojadirecta.me
> > [2] http://www.rojadirecta.es
> > [3]
> > http://www.rojadirecta.in
> > [4]
> >
> http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110201/10252412910/homeland-security-seizes-spanish-domain-name-that-had-already-been-declared-legal.shtml
> > [5]
> > mailto:At-Large at atlarge-lists.icann.org
> > [6]
> > https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
> > [7]
> > http://atlarge.icann.org
> > [8] mailto:ajp at glocom.ac.jp
> > [9]
> > mailto:At-Large at atlarge-lists.icann.org
> > [10]
> > https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
> > [11]
> > http://atlarge.icann.org
> > [12]
> > mailto:At-Large at atlarge-lists.icann.org
> > [13]
> > https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/at-large
> > [14]
> > http://atlarge.icann.org
> > _______________________________________________
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-- 
Evan Leibovitch, Toronto Canada
Em: evan at telly dot org
Sk: evanleibovitch
Tw: el56



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