[Registrants-rights] Update on ICANN meeting on the RAA

Mon Apr 23 13:39:41 UTC 2012

Hi Holly:
Our point of insertion in the process is critical to success, given our
lack of standing to enter the negotiations itself.

Two approaches  to action: 1) Go for impact, meaning take the problem that
will have the greatest impact in solution or 2) Go for the low-hanging
fruit, meaning one we know have the greatest reserve of support.

In either case, we must identify the jurisdiction[s] in which the problem
is centred so we can devise the most effective process to solution and
offer that as our definitive output.

So, if we believe the that the principal problem for registrants is that of
uneven operational practice, then a binding code of practice universally
applied is the thing for us to work.  If we believe it is a customer
service problem, then lets devise a baseline service-level agreement that
is readily adopted, easy to understand and track.

Best,
- Carlton

==============================
Carlton A Samuels
Mobile: 876-818-1799
*Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround*
=============================

On Mon, Apr 23, 2012 at 12:44 AM, Holly Raiche <h.raiche at internode.on.net>wrote:

> Hi Everyone
>
> Finally have time to go through my emails.
>
> And there is a lot to say on complaint handling:
>
> I am amused by the reference to auDA.  Their jurisdiction begins and ends
> at our fair shores (which are way beyond most of you).  But if you remember
> Costa Rica, and the ICANN Ombudsman's presentation - saying of the
> complaints he gets, 80% are outside his jurisdiction.  You would also
> remember a presentation by Pam Little (Compliance area, ICANN), about the
> complaints they get - the second highest area of complaints is customer
> service).  So there is a whole area of complaint handling and customer
> service that are dealt with (admittedly not perfectly) in Oz, but probably
> less well in other areas.
>
> So, as I have said before, there is plenty to do.  The RAA does mention a
> Code of Practice (which doesn't exist) which could be developed.   There is
> certainly scope for a guide for registrants, which includes complaint
> handling - something ICANN doesn't do.
>
> So first - where the negotiations are up to.  Next, what should be on the
> list - what else was recommended by the RAA Working Groups.  Next step - a
> Code of practice including dealing with registrant complaints
>
> Holly
>
>
> On 19/04/2012, at 3:09 AM, Beau Brendler wrote:
>
> > I believe Michele might be referring to this, from [
> http://www.auda.org.au/basics/can-i-register-before-hosting-is-arranged/#what-are-my-consumer-rights
> ]:
> >
> > "What are my consumer rights as a registrant?
> > As a domain name registrant, you have the right to:
> >
> > * choose your own registrar or reseller
> > * if using a reseller, know which registrar your domain name is
> registered with
> > * be made aware of all material terms and conditions and all charges for
> the domain name registration, before registering your domain name
> > * transfer your domain name between registrars and resellers
> > * have a complaint heard fairly by the registrar, and if dissatisfied
> with the result, have the complaint referred to auDA.
> > * All auDA accredited registrars and their resellers must comply with a
> Code of Practice (http://www.auda.org.au/policies/auda-2004-04/) which
> aims to promote best practice and ethical behaviour within the domain name
> industry."
> >
> > BTW, auDA's code of practice, while relatively brief, includes a
> reference that incorporates any other Australian government's codes of
> practices on this issue. So, by extension, there are some interesting codes
> of practice within Australia's government that may bear some review by this
> WG, including its National Health and Medical Research Council's [
> http://www.nhmrc.gov.au/guidelines/publications/r39]
> >
> > Some of this is obviously outside this WG's scope, though there are some
> points regards C of I we may want to review.
> >
> > General question for the group: referencing auDA's point, "have a
> complaint heard fairly by the registrar, and if dissatisfied with the
> result, have the complaint referred to auDA."
> >
> > Is there an international body that a registrant could address its
> complaints to? Obviously we could not refer someone in, say, Romania with a
> registrar dispute, to auDA. Those of us in at-large know that the best
> route would not be to refer them to ICANN.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> >> From: "Michele Neylon :: Blacknight" <michele at blacknight.ie>
> >> Sent: Apr 18, 2012 12:54 PM
> >> To: Beau Brendler <beaubrendler at earthlink.net>, "Garth Bruen at
> Knujon.com" <gbruen at knujon.com>
> >> Cc: "registrants-rights at atlarge-lists.icann.org" <
> registrants-rights at atlarge-lists.icann.org>, holly Raiche <
> h.raiche at internode.on.net>, Cintra Sooknanan <cintra.sooknanan at gmail.com>
> >> Subject: RE: [Registrants-rights] Update on ICANN meeting on the RAA
> >>
> >> Thanks Beau
> >>
> >> +1 and all that
> >>
> >> "Bad actors" hurt us all and if we can educate people (in the broadest
> sense) as to what they should / shouldn't do / use etc etc. then it can
> only help
> >>
> >> On a related note - have any of you looked at the materials that AUDA
> produced?
> >>
> >> M
> >>
> >> --
> >> Mr Michele Neylon
> >> Blacknight Solutions
> >> Hosting & Colocation, Brand Protection
> >> http://www.blacknight.com/
> >> http://blog.blacknight.com/
> >> http://mneylon.tel/
> >> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072
> >> Locall: 1850 929 929
> >> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
> >> Fax. +353 (0) 1 4811 763
> >> Twitter: http://twitter.com/mneylon
> >> -------------------------------
> >> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business
> Park,Sleaty
> >> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland  Company No.: 370845
> >>
> >> ________________________________________
> >> From: Beau Brendler [beaubrendler at earthlink.net]
> >> Sent: 18 April 2012 17:52
> >> To: Garth Bruen at Knujon.com; Michele Neylon :: Blacknight
> >> Cc: registrants-rights at atlarge-lists.icann.org; holly Raiche; Cintra
> Sooknanan
> >> Subject: Re: [Registrants-rights] Update on ICANN meeting on the RAA
> >>
> >> Michele does have a point -- we will need the registrars' cooperation
> if this WG is going to have any success. And I know a number of them are
> certainly willing -- if for no other reason than to weed out bad actors --
> to do so.
> >>
> >> I will keep the "rally the troops" encomiums to a minimum. We have no
> enemies here except criminals.
> >>
> >> Beau
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: "Garth Bruen at Knujon.com" <gbruen at knujon.com>
> >>> Sent: Apr 18, 2012 10:16 AM
> >>> To: "Michele Neylon :: Blacknight" <michele at blacknight.ie>, Beau
> Brendler <beaubrendler at earthlink.net>
> >>> Cc: registrants-rights at atlarge-lists.icann.org, holly Raiche <
> h.raiche at internode.on.net>, Cintra Sooknanan <cintra.sooknanan at gmail.com>
> >>> Subject: Re: [Registrants-rights] Update on ICANN meeting on the RAA
> >>>
> >>> Michele,
> >>>
> >>> I don't see anything in Beau's statement that casts Registrars as the
> >>> "enemy"
> >>>
> >>> The name of the group is "Registrants Rights" which are poorly
> defined. The
> >>> responsibilities are pretty clear (if not enforced).
> >>>
> >>> -Garth
> >>>
> >>> --------------------------------------------------
> >>> From: "Michele Neylon :: Blacknight" <michele at blacknight.ie>
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 9:42 AM
> >>> To: "Beau Brendler" <beaubrendler at earthlink.net>
> >>> Cc: <registrants-rights at atlarge-lists.icann.org>
> >>> Subject: Re: [Registrants-rights] Update on ICANN meeting on the RAA
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 18 Apr 2012, at 14:32, Beau Brendler wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Thanks, Holly.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You wrote: "Should we assign tasks and start having targets?"
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You also wrote: "...a detailed look at the RAA (2009 version plus the
> >>>>> latest on the negotiations).  It became clear to us (thank you Garth
> for
> >>>>> your detailed work on this) that the RAA cannot be used to enforce
> WHOIS
> >>>>> accuracy requirements."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> To these statements I write, yes and yes.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> My suggestion for the WG's first step is to analyze and agree upon
> >>>>> changes in the language to the 10 May 2002 Registrar Advisory
> Concerning
> >>>>> WHOIS data accuracy
> >>>>> (http://www.icann.org/en/news/announcements/advisory-10may02-en.htm
> ).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This is a one-page doc that is frequently used as a loophole to
> >>>>> circumvent the spirit of the RAA.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I have my own opinions on this doc. However, I am not a lawyer. I
> would
> >>>>> like our co-chair, Cintra Sooknanan, who is a lawyer, to convene a
> >>>>> lawyers' reading of this document right away, with an eye toward
> vagaries
> >>>>> of language. We should each look at it and contribute our own
> comments to
> >>>>> this list.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> By Prague, I believe we should a) announce that this working group
> >>>>> requires substantial updating of this 10-year-old advisory (ten
> years on
> >>>>> the Internet is equivalent to going back to soup cans and string for
> the
> >>>>> telephone system) and b) present our version of how it should be
> updated.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I believe this will show the registrar community that this WG means
> >>>>> business and is not just about creating a watery set of
> "aspirational"
> >>>>> feel-good statements that may or may not be appended to some archived
> >>>>> report somewhere.
> >>>>
> >>>> Beau
> >>>>
> >>>> With all due respect if you treat us (registrars) as the "enemy" it's
> not
> >>>> going to help anyone.
> >>>>
> >>>> Registrants should have rights - yes
> >>>> But they also have responsibilities
> >>>>
> >>>> And most registrars aren't going to trample over their registrants
> for a
> >>>> small short term gain
> >>>>
> >>>> regards
> >>>>
> >>>> Michele (AKA dirty filthy registrar)
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>> From: Cintra Sooknanan <cintra.sooknanan at gmail.com>
> >>>>>> Sent: Apr 18, 2012 9:18 AM
> >>>>>> To: Holly Raiche <h.raiche at internode.on.net>
> >>>>>> Cc: registrants-rights at atlarge-lists.icann.org
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Registrants-rights] Update on ICANN meeting on the RAA
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hello everyone,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thank you very much Holly for this report. I have updated the wiki
> space
> >>>>>> accordingly
> >>>>>>
> https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/At-Large+Registrants+Rights+and+Responsibilities
> .
> >>>>>> One small point of clarification, I believe there was an error in
> >>>>>> Natalia
> >>>>>> Benitez (ISOC Paraguay) is correctly Natalia Enciso. I believe Beau
> or
> >>>>>> Matt
> >>>>>> has updated the mailing list to include these members, but I will
> >>>>>> confirm
> >>>>>> this.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Beau and I are currently working with Matt to setup the monthly
> calls
> >>>>>> for
> >>>>>> this working group. We are also in the process of drafting the
> charter
> >>>>>> and
> >>>>>> proposed timeline to be approved by the working group.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> In the meantime, please go through the Essential Reading and
> Documents
> >>>>>> section listed on the link above. I know this will just be a
> refresher
> >>>>>> for
> >>>>>> some :)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Kind regards
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Cintra Sooknanan
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 12:02 AM, Holly Raiche
> >>>>>> <h.raiche at internode.on.net>wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hi Everyone
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Some of us - Carlton Samuels (ALAC), Beau Brendler (NARALO) Yrjo
> >>>>>>> Lansipuro
> >>>>>>> (ISOC Finland) Seth Greene (ISOC) Natalia Benitez (ISOC Paraguay)
> and
> >>>>>>> myself met briefly during the ICANN meeting just to start a
> discussion
> >>>>>>> on
> >>>>>>> where to from here.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The suggested tasks include
> >>>>>>> - a review of the outputs from the GNSO Subteams A and B
> (attached) to
> >>>>>>> see
> >>>>>>> where we are up to with what was recommended
> >>>>>>> - a detailed look at the RAA (2009 version plus the latest on the
> >>>>>>> negotiations).  It became clear to us (thank you Garth for your
> >>>>>>> detailed
> >>>>>>> work on this) that the RAA cannot be used to enforce WHOIS accuracy
> >>>>>>> requirements
> >>>>>>> - any other issues we should raise, including ICANN compliance
> >>>>>>> activities
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Once we have worked through the documents, the goals should be
> tied to
> >>>>>>> both the output of the WHOIS review team report and the AoC.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Beau - has this captured the bulk of what we talked about?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Should we assign tasks and start having targets?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Kind regards
> >>>>>>> Holly Raiche
> >>>>>>> h.raiche at internode.on.net
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>> Registrants-rights mailing list
> >>>>>>> Registrants-rights at atlarge-lists.icann.org
> >>>>>>>
> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/registrants-rights
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> RAA WG Online: https://st.icann.org/RAA-Policy
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> Registrants-rights mailing list
> >>>>>> Registrants-rights at atlarge-lists.icann.org
> >>>>>> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/registrants-rights
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> RAA WG Online: https://st.icann.org/RAA-Policy
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Registrants-rights mailing list
> >>>>> Registrants-rights at atlarge-lists.icann.org
> >>>>> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/registrants-rights
> >>>>>
> >>>>> RAA WG Online: https://st.icann.org/RAA-Policy
> >>>>
> >>>> Mr Michele Neylon
> >>>> Blacknight Solutions ♞
> >>>> Hosting & Colocation, Brand Protection
> >>>> ICANN Accredited Registrar
> >>>> http://www.blacknight.com/
> >>>> http://blog.blacknight.com/
> >>>> http://blacknight.biz
> >>>> http://mneylon.tel
> >>>> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072
> >>>> US: 213-233-1612
> >>>> Locall: 1850 929 929
> >>>> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
> >>>> Facebook: http://fb.me/blacknight
> >>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/mneylon
> >>>> -------------------------------
> >>>> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business
> >>>> Park,Sleaty
> >>>> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland  Company No.: 370845
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Registrants-rights mailing list
> >>>> Registrants-rights at atlarge-lists.icann.org
> >>>> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/registrants-rights
> >>>>
> >>>> RAA WG Online: https://st.icann.org/RAA-Policy
> >>>
> >>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Registrants-rights mailing list
> Registrants-rights at atlarge-lists.icann.org
> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/registrants-rights
>
> RAA WG Online: https://st.icann.org/RAA-Policy
>