[NA-Discuss] Voting None of the Above Re: …

Garth Bruen at Knujon.com gbruen at knujon.com
Fri Jul 20 18:54:01 UTC 2012


<<My basic point is: Physician, heal thyself.>>

So that begs the question, are you part of the patient's body? What can you 
do to help the healing?

<<Sorry to be provocative but which of these positive achievements would you
like me to document first?>>

In sincere answer, I would encourage you to document what is obviously a 
problem within the organization when it comes to keeping it's disparate 
parts engaged and in peaceful dialogue. But what would be the agenda for 
such a posting? Who is the audience?

Then, I would encourage you to look here: http://www.atlarge.icann.org/ at 
the "record" number of policy initiatives which ICANN ignores at its own 
peril.

Review the RRR as Evan recommended. Give your assessment, add 
recommendations if you feel it needs improvement.

Then, go through this list: 
http://www.atlarge.icann.org/applications?tid_1=164&tid_2=791 and start 
contacting them one by one to ask them what their assessment of the group 
is? If they're not participating, why? What are their expectations? What is 
their work?

Let's get moving on something.





--------------------------------------------------
From: "Kieren McCarthy" <kierenmccarthy at gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 12:35 PM
To: "NA-Discuss Discuss" <na-discuss at atlarge-lists.icann.org>
Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss]Voting None of the Above Re: …

> I think it may be worth recapping what has happened in the past week 
> (which
> is why I perhaps mistakenly started trying to engage again with NARALO).
>
>
> * The (former) chair sent an aggressive email to a member who said he was
> going to stand against him in the chair election. It was sent to the
> mailing list by mistake.
>
> * The secretariat complained on the same mailing list that she was being
> bullied by the chair
>
> * Chair and secretariat then publicly exchanged insults and formally
> complained to ICANN's Ombudsman.
>
> * The chair resigned.
>
> * A member (myself) asked some basic questions about the organization's
> outreach work. They were met aggressively by another elected
> representative, and then backed up by the secretariat.
>
> * There are four positions up for election and only one person is standing
> for each. Recruitment for more people to stand appears to have been
> confined to the same mailing list on which all the unpleasantries of the
> past week have played out.
>
>
> Sorry to be provocative but which of these positive achievements would you
> like me to document first?
>
> My basic point is: Physician, heal thyself.
>
>
>
> Kieren
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 9:12 AM, Garth Bruen at Knujon.com <
> gbruen at knujon.com> wrote:
>
>> Yes, we need more of a front-facing presence but before we can publicize
>> and recruit we need to have purpose and define meaning. Which is why I 
>> ask
>> that the focus be placed on documenting positive achievements first.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------**--------------------
>> From: "Kieren McCarthy" <kierenmccarthy at gmail.com>
>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 11:36 AM
>>
>> To: "NA-Discuss Discuss" 
>> <na-discuss at atlarge-lists.**icann.org<na-discuss at atlarge-lists.icann.org>
>> >
>> Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss]Voting None of the Above Re: …
>>
>>  Hi Garth, all
>>>
>>> So here's the thing. If elected to a key post in a grassroots
>>> organization,
>>> being asked questions like: how many members do you have, how many
>>> subscribers, what level of engagement -- should be an opportunity to
>>> demonstrate effectiveness (especially when seeking re-election) and the
>>> answers should be immediately accessible.
>>>
>>> If asked about a Facebook page, or a Twitter account, or a report of the
>>> recent meeting which is the organization's entire reason for existing,
>>> then
>>> the answers should already be known and easily provided, perhaps with a
>>> certain amount of pride.
>>>
>>> This basic level of commitment by elected representatives is the
>>> foundation
>>> on which other things can be built. If there is such a foundation and if
>>> questions from members are seen as a positive and useful form of
>>> engagement, then you will find that not only I but a lot of other people
>>> would be willing to help out, to do work (without insisting on being 
>>> paid
>>> for it), and to promote the organization.
>>>
>>>
>>> Kieren
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 20, 2012 at 7:48 AM, Garth Bruen at Knujon.com <
>>> gbruen at knujon.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>  Kieren, I think your critique of what needs to be done is correct but
>>>> there is difference between saying "this must be done by you" and "this
>>>> must be done and I will do this part of it" among a group of 
>>>> volunteers.
>>>>
>>>> We're all aware of the weak volume of participation, and this can be
>>>> fixed.
>>>>
>>>> What can't be denied is the quality of participation. The expertise and
>>>> dedication among this group is remarkable. Before joining At-Large I 
>>>> was
>>>> running my volunteer effort with success in specific areas. But since
>>>> working with At-Large that success has improved and I've had the honor 
>>>> of
>>>> helping others within the group with various efforts.
>>>>
>>>> We've made positive policy changes and gotten the attention of the 
>>>> board,
>>>> staff and "others." Registrars regularly lurk on this thread along with
>>>> anonymous (NON)At-Large support ICANN staff. That's pretty shocking and
>>>> wouldn't happen if we were not having an impact. No one inside the 
>>>> inner
>>>> circle would care what we said otherwise.
>>>>
>>>> If you can use your far-reaching voice to highlight the success of this
>>>> group it would help get new interest and support for existing
>>>> initiatives.
>>>> Interview some members and document what they do, so then readers will
>>>> see
>>>> how their Internet problems could also be addressed.
>>>>
>>>> -Garth
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------****--------------------
>>>>
>>>> From: "Kieren McCarthy" <kierenmccarthy at gmail.com>
>>>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 9:40 AM
>>>> To: "NA-Discuss Discuss" 
>>>> <na-discuss at atlarge-lists.**ic**ann.org<http://icann.org>
>>>> <na-discuss at atlarge-**lists.icann.org<na-discuss at atlarge-lists.icann.org>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Voting None of the Above Re: …
>>>>
>>>>  Well I think you've both just answered the question as to why there 
>>>> are
>>>>
>>>>> so few people engaged in NARALO.
>>>>>
>>>>> Kieren
>>>>>
>>>>> [from mobile device]
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 20, 2012, at 3:50 AM, "Thompson, Darlene" 
>>>>> <DThompson1 at GOV.NU.CA>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  +1
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Very well said.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> D
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Darlene A. Thompson
>>>>>> CAP Administrator
>>>>>> N-CAP/Department of Education
>>>>>> P.O. Box 1000, Station 910
>>>>>> Iqaluit, NU  X0A 0H0
>>>>>> Phone:  (867) 975-5631
>>>>>> Fax:  (867) 975-5610
>>>>>> dthompson at gov.nu.ca
>>>>>> ______________________________****__________
>>>>>> From: 
>>>>>> na-discuss-bounces at atlarge-**l**ists.icann.org<http://lists.icann.org>
>>>>>> <na-discuss-**bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.**org<na-discuss-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org>
>>>>>> >[
>>>>>> na-discuss-bounces at atlarge-**l**ists.icann.org<http://lists.icann.org>
>>>>>> <na-discuss-**bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.**org<na-discuss-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org>
>>>>>> >]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> on behalf of Evan Leibovitch [evan at telly.org]
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, July 20, 2012 2:20 AM
>>>>>> To: Kieren McCarthy
>>>>>> Cc: NA-Discuss Discuss
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss]       Voting None of the Above Re: …
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 19 July 2012 12:39, Kieren McCarthy <kierenmccarthy at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *At the risk at getting embroiled in pointless name-calling, John I
>>>>>> think
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  you are demonstrating precisely the mindset that is behind the 
>>>>>> reason
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> only one person is standing for each of the four positions.*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kieren, you *are* getting embrolied in pointless name calling.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Funny that you suddenly seem so interested in At-Large issues when it
>>>>>> comes
>>>>>> to our internals.  We've been active in promoting end-user
>>>>>> sensibilities
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> WHOIS, gTLD, trademark, internationalization and other issues. I've
>>>>>> personally been trying -- practically begging, since before Prague --
>>>>>>  to
>>>>>> get you to even LOOK at the R3 white paper At-Large has produced, an
>>>>>> broadly-crafted attempt to make ICANN more representative of (and
>>>>>> accountable to) the world at large. You've been WAY too busy for 
>>>>>> that.
>>>>>> But
>>>>>> not too busy to gawk at an unfortunate personal issue, and pass
>>>>>> judgement
>>>>>> on a consensus process that seems to work for most. Like most
>>>>>> decision-making systems, it's imperfect. But it does result in NARALO
>>>>>> members' initiating more than its share of ALAC policy initiatives, 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> still being the one of the only regions with a formal acceptance of
>>>>>> participants who aren't part of an ALS.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And yet... Rather than focus on the substance of what we're actually
>>>>>> trying
>>>>>> to say -- which you have completely ignored to date -- you seek to
>>>>>> dwell
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> the "what gives you the right to say it?" approach.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry there wasn't any tabloid fodder for you on Monday (the first
>>>>>> NARALO
>>>>>> call you've attended ... ever?). No meltdown. Not even raised voices.
>>>>>> Just
>>>>>> talk about policy, planning for the Toronto meeting, and ensuring the
>>>>>> everyone who had something to say on our internal issues was heard,
>>>>>> Smoothly run and ended on time. But judging from your takeaway
>>>>>> comments,
>>>>>> Plan B appears to be focusing on why At-Large doesn't function more
>>>>>> like
>>>>>> Amway.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *So here are some questions:*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Really? REALLY?
>>>>>> Are you really asking volunteers to provide the research that you 
>>>>>> will
>>>>>> then
>>>>>> turn around and sell to others?
>>>>>> And then complain that we don't have enough time for <insert your pet
>>>>>> issue
>>>>>> here>?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If your questions are intended to discover holes in ICANN's At-Large
>>>>>> outreach strategies, you'll have an easy time of it once you do the
>>>>>> research. If your intentions are indeed constructive, you're welcome 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> join us in advocating At-Large growth through anywhere near the kind 
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> resources that ICANN expends to grow its pool of registrars and TLDs.
>>>>>> But
>>>>>> the tone just appears as building a case for diverting our limited
>>>>>> volunteer resources away from understanding and shaping the ICANN
>>>>>> labyrinth, and towards recruitment. No thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My ALS (and a number of others) was discovered and brought in by 
>>>>>> Jacob
>>>>>> Malthouse, an ICANN staffer whose job it was to go out and engage
>>>>>> members
>>>>>> of the public who'd never heard of ICANN -- let alone cared about 
>>>>>> it --
>>>>>>  and
>>>>>> convince them to get them involved. Jacob's job was difficult; too 
>>>>>> bad
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> can't ask him about it because his position no longer exists, so it's
>>>>>> no
>>>>>> surprise the job isn't being done anymore. NARALO has made proposals 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> duplicate this task using volunteers instead of staff, but our 
>>>>>> request
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> get even basic expenses covered for this project has been turned down
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> two (or it it three?) years in a row.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *These are basic questions, basic steps for a grassroots 
>>>>>> organization.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  And they all cost $0.*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How sad that you consider volunteer time to be worthless. Mine isn't.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Evan
>>>>>> ------
>>>>>> NA-Discuss mailing list
>>>>>> NA-Discuss at atlarge-lists.**ica**nn.org <http://icann.org><
>>>>>> NA-Discuss at atlarge-**lists.icann.org<NA-Discuss at atlarge-lists.icann.org>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> https://atlarge-lists.icann.****org/mailman/listinfo/na-****discuss<
>>>>>> https://atlarge-lists.**icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-**discuss<https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org
>>>>>> ------
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> ------
>>>>> NA-Discuss mailing list
>>>>> NA-Discuss at atlarge-lists.**ica**nn.org <http://icann.org> <
>>>>> NA-Discuss at atlarge-lists.**icann.org<NA-Discuss at atlarge-lists.icann.org>
>>>>> >
>>>>> https://atlarge-lists.icann.****org/mailman/listinfo/na-****discuss<
>>>>> https://atlarge-lists.**icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-**discuss<https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss>
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org
>>>>> ------
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  ------
>>> NA-Discuss mailing list
>>> NA-Discuss at atlarge-lists.**icann.org 
>>> <NA-Discuss at atlarge-lists.icann.org>
>>> https://atlarge-lists.icann.**org/mailman/listinfo/na-**discuss<https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss>
>>>
>>> Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org
>>> ------
>>>
>>>
> ------
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>
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