[NA-Discuss] Susan Crawford Op-ed on new gTLDs

Garth Bruen at Knujon.com gbruen at knujon.com
Mon Jan 9 17:47:07 UTC 2012

Hmmm. I never said never. The ignore referred to this specific case of 
At-Large advice on the new gTLD program which is the subject of the article.

As we have discussed already Kurt omitted reference to ALAC in his testimony 
about consensus, likely because there was documented dissent. Further claims 
of consensus as restated in Crawford's piece are subject to question.

From: "Avri Doria" <avri at ella.com>
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2012 12:00 PM
To: "NA Discuss" <na-discuss at atlarge-lists.icann.org>
Subject: Re: [NA-Discuss] Susan Crawford Op-ed on new gTLDs

> On 9 Jan 2012, at 10:37, Garth Bruen at Knujon.com wrote:
>> The idea that the U.S. Gov't
>> wants to and could stop IDNs is unrealistic and not what I've seen in the
>> debates so far, it's a misleading opener.
> Well if they succeeded in derailing the program, it would have derailed 
> the IDN program as well.  They did not make and excpetions, or even 
> recognition, of other countries and their needs.  Typical for the US, 
> perhaps, but significant nonetheless.
>> I also take issue with her assertion that "ICANN operates by consensus" 
>> when
>> ALACs advice is ignored.
> First the consensus is rough consensus as defined by the procedures.  If 
> anyone expects that nothing will happen without their approval, they are 
> misunderstanding what ICANN Consensus means.  And yes, I wish she had use 
> a modifier on consensus so that people would not be led into the 
> expectation of Full Consensus.
> And second I object to the great myth that is being created that ICANN 
> ALWAYS ignored ALAC advice.  Like any absolute, it only takes a single 
> counterexample to make the sentence appear to be untrue.  And I think a 
> lot can be said that the JAS/ASP program is a huge counter-example. 
> Without ALAC and others pushing on it, nothing would be happening on this 
> front.  And while 14 applications supported is definitely short of what we 
> would all like to see, even this would never have happened without ALAC's 
> advice and perseverance.  I am also sure that other examples can be found. 
> I know for a fact that the GNSO has listened to the liaison advice that it 
> gets from people like Alan and Brett.
> Now if you want to say Registrars never ever  listened to ALAC and ICANN 
> never listens to anyone on the subject of Registrar behavior or to ALAC on 
> the issues on enforcement, you may be on safer ground, I don't know as I 
> have not followed the ALAC-Regsitrar-ICANN interaction on this particular 
> topic.
> I think we need to be much more specific in our use of absolute statements 
> like: they never listen to us.
> avri
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