[NA-Discuss] Discussion Lists are For Discussion Right?

[Dharma Dailey]

Evan,

I read Greg's post last night and had the exact opposite reaction that  
you had.   I thought,  "This is an informative, clearly written piece  
on an important issue that concerns internet users which is  
understandable for general audience--- a model of what we should be  
doing on ICANN issues."  -and I learned something from it.

I respectfully object to your concept of what is appropriate for this  
list.  This list is called "North America DISCUSS."   The only   
constant about internet users is that they are always changing in  
usage patterns, in demographics, and in expectations.   How are we to  
represent internet users effectively in ICANN or elsewhere if we  
aren't up to speed on what's going on out there?

Glenn posted a message to a discussion list, he wasn't standing in  
front of the board telling them that ICANN should change it's mission  
to saving the whales.   I don't recall a decision by NARALO to limit  
topics on the NARALO list.  If one exists, can you please reference  
it?   Members of NARALO are intelligent adults, it should be a matter  
of their discretion what the list is used for.   If you cut off  
discussion, you cut off fresh ideas, fresh perspectives.   I am in  
favor of a discussion policy that allows for the occasional off-topic  
topic thus  creating a culture where people feel free to put what they  
feel is important and relevant out there.

Who decides what is important and relevant?    I shared an empty issue  
map with blanks for  "this is in the ICANN domain, and this is not"   
"this is important to internet users and this is not"  "ICANN can  
influence this outcome somewhat, solely or not at all"  for precisely  
this reason.    My observation is that those most active in At-Large  
have such conceptual maps in their head, but have not undertaken a  
systematic process to unpack the assumptions of those models.    
Instead of taking a step back to do so, we all get front and center  
seats via our mailbox to non-stop bickering, "YOU should be doing  
this, YOU should be doing that.  Why didn't YOU take my  
suggestion?"    Please don't assume that because you have a conceptual  
framework for what is in ICANN's domain and what isn't  that everyone  
has that same conceptual framework in their own head.   There is both  
a learning curve AND a gray area.   I believe that individual's  
assumptions about what is important vis a vis ICANN and how to effect  
change on what is important vis a vis issues concerning internet users  
is 95% of the bickering that goes on in At-Large.  Better to get these  
things out in the air for discussion with open inquiry than make a  
declaration which shuts down discussion.

Even for issues which are clearly in ICANN's domain, we shouldn't  
automatically assume that trying to influence the ICANN board or other  
members of the ICANN community is the most effective way to net a  
positive outcome for internet users.    In my conceptual map, I  
believe positive change for internet users vis a vis ICANN will be  
effected by having more internet users know what ICANN is, what  
decisions fall at it's door, current topics of importance.   But no  
one in ICANN, or At-Large, or anywhere else can dictate to internet  
users what they believe to be important.  In order to create  
meaningful education on ICANN issues, we have to do come by the work  
honestly by making logical connections between the concerns of  
internet users and the role that ICANN plays in those concerns.    
There is MUCH groundwork to do to make those connections logical for  
-- I won't say average user b/c I don't know what the average user is  
these days-- someone in an internet cafe in Bejing?  -- but I can say  
with certainty for the internet users which I am connected to.

   My day job, in part, entails surveying people to discern their  
concerns around the internet.  By far and away among those that I work  
with --community based networks, community media outfits, and media  
policy groups comprised of traditionally marginalized populations----  
the absolute number one concern is Access, followed by Net Neutrality  
-- which they as  view as subset of access.   Which is why, when I  
hear the argument -- which I'm sure you've all heard- that ICANN  
issues doesn't have anything to do with internet users, I don't  
argue.  I am simply in a process of inquiry reserving judgement,  
trying to probe how internet users concerns and ICANN policy connect  
with each other.

It  seems that I am in a minority in believing that educating internet  
users is at least as important as writing positions to the board on  
current issues,  A position which I cheerfully accept.  All I ask is  
that simple accommodation is made-  such as space for discussion on  
the email list for issues of concern to internet users-  which allows  
that work to progress.

Best Regards,
Dharma





On Dec 17, 2008, at 4:12 AM, Evan Leibovitch wrote:

> Glenn McKnight wrote:
>> http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/12/16/canada-spam.html
>> Canada source of over 9 billion spam messages a day:
> Hi Glenn,
>
> Please keep in mind that this list is for the discussion of
> ICANN-specific topics related to domain names and numbers. While this
> includes a great many issues such as phishing and domain warehousing,
> there are many Internet governance related issues -- such as spam,
> freedom of speech and net neutrality -- that are beyond its mandate.
>
> There are certainly people on this list with a wide range of interests
> that certainly include the topics listed above,  indeed we even have
> some ALSs here whose primary mission is spam reduction. However, ICANN
> lists are not really the appropriate venue for their discussion.
>
> Also, when wanting to alert the list to topical news stories, sending
> the headline and link usually suffices. Copying the whole story can  
> be a
> waste of bandwidth -- especially for those not interested in the topic
> -- not to mention possible copyright violation.
>
> - Evan
>
>
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