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<p>Hi all, <br>
</p>
<p>For those that haven't seen it, Alyssa is asking for more
discussion on the community networks proposal on the ARIN PPML
list. Now's the time to have your say! <br>
</p>
<p>Sign up here if you've not already done so: <br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.arin.net/participate/mailing_lists/index.html">https://www.arin.net/participate/mailing_lists/index.html</a><br>
</p>
<p>Susannah <br>
</p>
<div class="moz-forward-container"><br>
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<th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">Subject:
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<td>Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2017-2: Removal of
Community Networks</td>
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<th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">Date: </th>
<td>Tue, 13 Jun 2017 17:44:02 +0000</td>
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<th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">From: </th>
<td>Alyssa Moore <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:alyssa@alyssamoore.ca"><alyssa@alyssamoore.ca></a></td>
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<th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">To: </th>
<td>Owen DeLong <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:owen@delong.com"><owen@delong.com></a>, Jason Schiller
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jschiller@google.com"><jschiller@google.com></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th align="RIGHT" nowrap="nowrap" valign="BASELINE">CC: </th>
<td><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net">arin-ppml@arin.net</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:arin-ppml@arin.net"><arin-ppml@arin.net></a></td>
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<br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">
<p dir="ltr"
style="color:rgb(33,33,33);line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Hello PPML, </span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">
</span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">
</span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">I’d like to spark more discussion on the Removal of Community Networks proposal. </span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">
</span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">
</span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Here’s a brief history again (and thanks, Owen, for the first run at it). </span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">
</span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">
</span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">The policy was first implemented to </span></p>
<ol style="color:rgb(33,33,33);margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt">
<li dir="ltr"
style="list-style-type:lower-alpha;font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline">
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Encourage uptake of IPv6 in community networks</span></p>
</li>
<li dir="ltr"
style="list-style-type:lower-alpha;font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline">
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Reduce the threshold for qualification for community networks on small blocks of IPv6 </span></p>
</li>
<li dir="ltr"
style="list-style-type:lower-alpha;font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline">
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Provide some fee relief </span><span style="font-size:11pt;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">
</span></p>
</li>
</ol>
<p dir="ltr"
style="color:rgb(33,33,33);line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">As Owen noted, the fees at the time were much higher with a minimum commitment of $2500. </span></p>
<p dir="ltr"
style="color:rgb(33,33,33);line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"> </p>
<p dir="ltr"
style="color:rgb(33,33,33);line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">The fees now are much more accessible at: </span></p>
<div dir="ltr" style="color:rgb(33,33,33);margin-left:0pt">
<table style="border:none;border-collapse:collapse">
<colgroup><col width="115"><col width="68"><col width="205"><col
width="208"></colgroup><tbody>
<tr style="height:17.25pt">
<td
style="border-width:0.75pt;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(238,238,238);vertical-align:top;padding:4pt
6pt">
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:11pt"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;font-weight:700;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">3X-Small </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.arin.net/fees/fee_schedule.html#threex"
target="_blank" style="text-decoration-line:none"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:transparent;font-weight:700;text-decoration-line:underline;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">*</span></a></p>
</td>
<td
style="border-width:0.75pt;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(238,238,238);vertical-align:top;padding:4pt
6pt">
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:11pt;text-align:right"><span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">$250</span></p>
</td>
<td
style="border-width:0.75pt;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(238,238,238);vertical-align:top;padding:4pt
6pt">
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:11pt"><span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">/24 or smaller</span></p>
</td>
<td
style="border-width:0.75pt;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(238,238,238);vertical-align:top;padding:4pt
6pt">
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:11pt"><span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">/40 or smaller</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style="height:27pt">
<td
style="border-width:0.75pt;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(238,238,238);vertical-align:top;padding:4pt
6pt">
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:11pt"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;font-weight:700;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">2X-Small</span></p>
</td>
<td
style="border-width:0.75pt;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(238,238,238);vertical-align:top;padding:4pt
6pt">
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:11pt;text-align:right"><span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">$500</span></p>
</td>
<td
style="border-width:0.75pt;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(238,238,238);vertical-align:top;padding:4pt
6pt">
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:11pt"><span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Larger than /24,</span></p>
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:11pt"><span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">up to and including /22</span></p>
</td>
<td
style="border-width:0.75pt;border-style:solid;border-color:rgb(238,238,238);vertical-align:top;padding:4pt
6pt">
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:11pt"><span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Larger than /40,</span></p>
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:11pt"><span style="font-size:8.5pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">up to and including /36</span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div>
<p dir="ltr"
style="color:rgb(33,33,33);line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"> </p>
<p dir="ltr"
style="color:rgb(33,33,33);line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">At the meeting in New Orleans, we heard from a few folks who are involved in Community Nets. </span><span style="background-color:transparent;font-family:Arial;font-size:11pt;white-space:pre-wrap">At the mic, they expressed concern that: </span></p>
<p dir="ltr"
style="color:rgb(33,33,33);line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">
</span></p>
<ol style="color:rgb(33,33,33);margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt">
<li dir="ltr"
style="list-style-type:lower-alpha;font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline">
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">They didn’t know special provisions existed for Community Nets in the first place but were pleased that such provisions do exist</span></p>
</li>
<li dir="ltr"
style="list-style-type:lower-alpha;font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline">
<p dir="ltr"
style="line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">The definition in 2.11 is too restrictive. None of the self-identified community networks in attendance would have qualified under the definition - notably, the 100% volunteer-run requirement.</span></p>
</li>
</ol>
<p dir="ltr"
style="color:rgb(33,33,33);line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">
</span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">In further discussions, I’ve gleaned that the current fees are not a large concern, but that operators of community networks are pleased to be specifically recognized in the policy manual. </span></p>
<p dir="ltr"
style="color:rgb(33,33,33);line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"> </p>
<p dir="ltr"
style="color:rgb(33,33,33);line-height:1.38;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;background-color:transparent;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">It is my feeling, from this feedback, that any problem here may be more of an engagement and communications issue with community networks than a qualification and fee problem that can be solved in policy. This, admittedly is a challenge for the network operators with limited resources one one end, and for ARIN to be doing outreach on the other. </span></p>
<span style="color:rgb(33,33,33);background-color:transparent;font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">
</span><span style="color:rgb(33,33,33);background-color:transparent;font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Look forward to further discussion. </span><span style="color:rgb(33,33,33);background-color:transparent;font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">
</span><span style="color:rgb(33,33,33);background-color:transparent;font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">
</span><span style="color:rgb(33,33,33);background-color:transparent;font-size:11pt;font-family:Arial;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Alyssa </span><br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">On Wed, Mar 29, 2017 at 11:31 AM Owen DeLong <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:owen@delong.com">owen@delong.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
> On Mar 21, 2017, at 12:07 , Jason Schiller <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:jschiller@google.com"
target="_blank">jschiller@google.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> I would offer a friendly amendment to Scott's request to
open the<br>
> question up more generally... (we should not confuse if
a policy<br>
> is being used, with if it is needed).<br>
><br>
> Can "Community Networks" please chime into this thread<br>
> and explain one (or all) of the following:<br>
><br>
> 1. Why are you (or other communities networks in general)<br>
> having or had trouble getting resources?<br>
<br>
This section was put in place to attempt to provide a
mechanism by which community networks could gain access<br>
to IPv6 resources for the following reasons:<br>
<br>
1. Encourage the use of IPv6 by community
networks.<br>
2. Provide an avenue by which the board could
provide a reduced fee structure for community networks.<br>
(The board has, so far, elected not to do so)<br>
3. Lower the barrier to qualification for
relatively small blocks of IPv6 address space for operators<br>
of community networks.<br>
<br>
At the time the policy was introduced into the NRPM, the
barrier to entry for a community network (which would be<br>
treated as an ISP) was a minimum commitment of $2,500 per year
(IIRC, possibly even $5,000).<br>
<br>
Many community networks struggle to fund pizza for a monthly
meeting.<br>
<br>
Several representatives of community networks, myself
included, approached the board and were told that “The board<br>
would need a definition of community networks in policy before
it could provide any fee relief to such organizations.”<br>
<br>
The policy half was put in place and then the board declined
to provide any of the requested fee relief. Since then,<br>
several changes (reductions) in fees have occurred.<br>
<br>
Today, fees are likely no longer a significant barrier to
community networks use of this policy. However, that is a<br>
very recent event and I would like to see us give community
networks some time to determine whether this is a useful<br>
avenue or not.<br>
<br>
Further, since this is an IPv6-only policy, it may well be
that most community networks still don’t perceive it as<br>
practical to implement an IPv6 based network and so aren’t
ready to take advantage of the policy yet, preferring instead<br>
to focus on whatever mechanism they are using to deal with
IPv4.<br>
<br>
> 2. Is the current policy is sufficient for you<br>
> (and other community networks like you)<br>
> to get space without sections 2.11 and 6.5.9?<br>
<br>
From the perspective of the community networks I’ve been
actively involved in, it’s a mixed bag. There are still<br>
advantages to preserving these sections in some instances.<br>
<br>
<br>
> 3. Do you (and others like you) believe they should<br>
> qualify under "Community Networks" but do not because<br>
> the definition is overly narrow?<br>
> [explain how we might extend the definition to cover you]<br>
<br>
From the perspective of the community networks I’ve been
actively involved in, policy was not the problem,<br>
cost was the problem. The policy as is is helpful, but was not
helpful enough. Recent general changes to<br>
the fee structure would now make taking advantage of the
policy economically viable to some of these<br>
networks.<br>
<br>
> 4. Did you get space under a different policy,<br>
> but still believe you would have been better served<br>
> if you were able to fit under the "Communities Networks"<br>
> definition?<br>
<br>
From the perspective of the community networks I’ve been
actively involved in, no. Economics being the<br>
primary barrier, no other policy would work, either. Yes, we
would have been better served under the<br>
community networks definition _IF_ such service had been
economically viable, but that was not the<br>
case until recent changes.<br>
<br>
> Please note if you think you should be considered a
community network,<br>
<br>
> and why. (e.g. I am Your Neighborhood Net. We should be
considered a<br>
> community network because we offer "free" WiFi to our
community. We<br>
> hold monthly meetings that cost $10 / person, but half of
that covers the<br>
> price of the pizza, the rest is a donation for our ISP
fees and replacement<br>
> equipment. Occasionally, a community member will buy and
donate an<br>
> access point so they can get better coverage, or speed.
Neither<br>
> Your Neighborhood Net, nor people associated with it make
any money)<br>
<br>
All of the community networks I’ve been involved in had no
cost to attend their monthly meetings,<br>
provided free wifi to some service community, depended on
donations from local ISPs or other businesses<br>
(service donations) for connectivity, and if there was pizza
at the meeting, it was funded by everyone<br>
chipping in for the pizza. The equipment was generally donated
and/or purchased with donations from<br>
individual organizers/volunteers involved in the community
network. Space and power for the equipment<br>
was donated by individuals, companies, and in some cases,
civic entities (water districts, police,<br>
EMA, etc.).<br>
<br>
Many of these networks were/are operated by Amateur Radio
operators and often had some connection and/or<br>
intent to provide services for ARES/RACES and/or local
emergency management authorities.<br>
<br>
> Please ask any community networks you know to chime in on
this thread!<br>
<br>
Though I am no longer directly actively involved in any of
these networks, I hope that the above<br>
historical and current information is useful to the
discussion.<br>
<br>
Owen<br>
<br>
<br>
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</div>
<div dir="ltr">-- <br>
</div>
<div data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">Alyssa Moore<br>
403.437.0601<br>
</div>
</div>
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