[NA-Discuss] Update on Consumer Constituency Charter Changes
Dharma Dailey
dharma at ethoswireless.com
Fri May 6 17:21:09 UTC 2011
I find this a super interesting question. Will be interested to see
how it evolves in the ICANN context. A few thoughts.
In the US context (which is what I'm familiar with) "Consumers" are
long established actors that are recognized in specific ways by
regulators, courts, etc. in a way that "users" are not. So addressing
"user" issues, may, at times, be most pragmatically addressed by
translating "user" to "consumer." I don't know anything about
international law, but what I have surmised is that ICANN brokers a
series of cascading contracts. "Consumers" are likely also understood
in a specific ways in international contract law. If that is the
case, it is quite pragmatic to consider how "consumer" issues play out
in relation to those contracts.
Of course, something is lost in translation as "consumer" and "user"
are not completely equivalent. For example, an Internet user who
connects via a public access center or only uses the internet at work
or school would likely not be considered as "consumers." These
numbers are quite large. In the US, for example, as many as 1/3 of
people don't have broadband at home.
Since first attending ICANN, I have been puzzled about what "consumer"
and/or what "user" is most impacted by ICANN. As a qualitative
research looking a user behaviors, "All of them!" is unsatisfying
answer. There must be certain transactions or practices as either a
user or consumer when ICANN has more or less impact on me. I would
love to see that mapped out.
-Dharma Dailey
On May 6, 2011, at 12:50 PM, Michele Neylon :: Blacknight wrote:
> Darlene
>
> This confused me as well
>
> What's the actual difference between "consumers" and "users" ?
>
> My thoughts would pretty much echo Darlene's (in this instance)
>
> Regards
>
> Michele
>
> On 6 May 2011, at 17:40, Thompson, Darlene wrote:
>
>> Hi Beau,
>>
>> I read everything below and have comments on the users/consumers
>> issue. Perhaps I am too new at this game to fully understand the
>> issue but it seems a little odd to me.
>>
>> If I go to the grocery store and buy food and then eat it, I've
>> just consumed the food. If I go to a friend's house and they give
>> me food for free and I eat it, I've just consumed the food.
>>
>> How does this differ for the internet? Whether the product is free
>> or at a cost, we are still consuming them. Also, by encouraging
>> competition, I then have a choice amongst the free products and
>> will choose the one that suits my needs the best prior to consuming
>> it. After consuming it, I may then choose to purchase the upgraded
>> version (or not). I am still a consumer either way.
>>
>> Am I being extremely naïve and simplistic here?
>>
>> D
>>
>> Darlene A. Thompson
>> Community Access Program Administrator
>> Nunavut Dept. of Education / N-CAP
>> P.O. Box 1000, Station 910
>> Iqaluit, NU X0A 0H0
>> Phone: (867) 975-5631
>> Fax: (867) 975-5610
>> E-mail: dthompson at gov.nu.ca
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: na-discuss-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:na-discuss-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org
>> ] On Behalf Of Beau Brendler
>> Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 11:58 AM
>> To: na-discuss at atlarge-lists.icann.org
>> Subject: [NA-Discuss] Update on Consumer Constituency Charter Changes
>>
>>
>> Those interested in the Consumer Constituency, may I ask that you
>> read the
>> exchange between Rosemary Sinclair (in which she has excerpted the
>> comments
>> of others) below. Please offer any comments as soon as possible. I
>> think
>> most of us involved in this would like to see it move forward
>> without too
>> much further delay.
>> Thanks
>> Beau
>>
>> -----Forwarded Message-----
>> From: Beau Brendler
>> Sent: May 6, 2011 11:52 AM
>> To: Rosemary Sinclair , Alex Gakuru , ncsg-ec at n4c.eu
>> Subject: Re: : Update on Consumer Constituency Charter Changes
>> Thanks for this.
>> So the suggested new mission statement is this, correct?:
>>
>> The intended purpose of the Consumers Constituency is to serve
>> as the
>> conduit for consumer interests as they relate to those areas of
>> the
>> Internet within the scope of ICANN. As representatives of
>> consumers, who
>> are using the Internet to purchase or use goods and services,
>> the
>> Constituency will focus on aspects of DNS that impact on
>> consumers such as
>> safety, security, stability, usability, access and any other
>> appropriate
>> concerns to ensure these are adequately represented within ICANN
>> policy
>> development.
>>
>>
>> The CC will work to promote competition, consumer trust, and
>> consumer
>> choice in the DNS marketplace.
>> With your permission, I will forward this around to some folks
>> who have
>> been involved in the CC for a while and see what they think. My
>> guess is
>> that there will be no problem. I'd like to forward it to NA-
>> Discuss,
>> possibly other ICANN lists.
>> I'll give you some thoughts in the form of pros and cons.
>> Pros first:
>> * Going back to the purchasing goods and services thing is fine
>> with me.
>> In fact, there was some language in the previous CC proposed
>> charters that
>> was very similar. There's a con to this as well, see below for
>> cons.
>> * Seems to me this is a good way to delineate what is in the
>> purview of
>> the NCUC and what is in the purview of CC. In fact, some people
>> have
>> suggested that we should call it "consumer protection
>> constituency"
>> instead of just consumer. I'm fine either way. However, the NCUC
>> could
>> rightly argue that their mission involves consumer protection as
>> well,
>> specifically on privacy issues, so I'll just note that here.
>> * This language would certainly be easier for consumer
>> organizations
>> (Consumentenbond, Test-Achat, my former employer, etc.) to grab
>> onto.
>> * I like the reference presumably to the AOC in the part that
>> says: "The
>> CC will work to promote competition, consumer trust, and
>> consumer choice
>> in the DNS marketplace." Parroting some of the ICANN
>> aspirational language
>> would seem to be important at this phase in a bureaucratic and
>> political
>> sense.
>> Cons next:
>> * The terms "consumer" and "consumer choice" really seem to
>> derail people.
>> When Alex and I convened the meeting in San Francisco, most of
>> the
>> feedback we got was discomfort with these terms and their
>> meaning. So
>> there is still an audience out there in the community who don't
>> yet
>> understand where "end-users" or "regular folks" fit in to the
>> mix here, or
>> within the NCUC. Further, if we are going to use the word
>> "consumer
>> choice" in the mission, then I would be in favor of defining
>> what exactly
>> that means, because I don't really know, and neither did several
>> members
>> of the ICANN board I spoke to in SF. Does that refer to the
>> pricing of
>> services offered by registrars and registries, etc.? Similarly,
>> what is
>> meant by "competition"?
>> * Generally speaking, though the group Alex and I convened in SF
>> was
>> small, there was a lot of dissatisfaction with limiting the
>> scope of the
>> consumer constituency to purchase of goods and services. I
>> don't
>> necessarily agree with that dissatisfaction. However, the more
>> generalized
>> proposed mission statement of the constituency that we came up
>> with after
>> SF, and that Milton is probably referring to in his comment, was
>> literally
>> "written" by the audience who attended that meeting on what the
>> CC should
>> be about, not by Alex or by me -- we really just shaped the
>> feedback. So
>> there is some alienation risk of that community, but I don't
>> think that
>> should hold us back from moving forward.
>> * In other conversations with members of the ICANN board I had,
>> there was
>> limited to no agreement on what the word "consumer" means. So
>> however we
>> go forward, I think we have to be clear on how (and by whom) the
>> plain old
>> "end-user" or regular human being is being represented in GNSO
>> policy
>> making.
>> * Can a reasonable argument be made, in light of the current
>> NCUC mission
>> language, that the Consumer Constituency, with its emphasis on
>> the
>> purchasing of goods and services, etc., therefore be better
>> aligned with
>> commercial or business interests? I'm not saying it should, but
>> am
>> wondering if that argument will be made. And I assume that issue
>> would be
>> addressed by the characteristics of the consumer constituency
>> itself.
>> * This purchasing of goods and services language precedes
>> Alex's
>> involvement in the formation of the constituency, so I don't
>> know what his
>> comfort level with that language is. Alex, what do you think?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rosemary Sinclair
>> Sent: May 5, 2011 9:02 PM
>> To: Alex Gakuru , Beau Brendler , ncsg-ec at n4c.eu
>> Subject: : Update on Consumer Constituency Charter Changes
>>
>> Hi Alex and Beau
>>
>>
>> Here are some comments/discussion from NCSG EC on the proposed
>> Consumer
>> Charter
>>
>>
>> Iâve included the latest comments from email discussion below for
>> you to see
>> how our thinking has been evolving
>>
>>
>> We think itâs best for you to have a look now and let us know how
>> youâd like
>> to proceedâ¦
>>
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>>
>> Rosemary
>>
>>
>> Milton wrote:
>>
>>
>> But in that case they are not âconsumersâ they are âusersâ. What I
>> am trying
>> to avoid is a fragmentation of âuserâ representation across NCUC
>> and CC.
>> Each âconstituencyâ should have a clearly circumscribed domain and
>> not
>> purport to speak for each other.
>>
>>
>>
>> ROSEMARY wrote:
>>
>>
>> but some goods and services may be "free" ....so I included "use"
>>
>>
>> From: Milton L Mueller [mailto:mueller at syr.edu]
>>
>> Sent: Thursday, 28 April 2011 1:15 AM
>>
>> To: ncsg-ec at n4c.eu; Avri Doria
>>
>> Subject: [ncsg-ec] RE: Rosemary - Update on Consumer Constituency
>> Charter
>> Changes
>>
>>
>> This looks just about right to me. The purchase of goods and
>> services seems
>> an inalienable part of our concept of âconsumerâ so I like
>> this
>> clarification. But I am still confused by the phrase âwho are
>> using the
>> internet to purchase _or use_ goods and servicesâ ?? Is that an
>> inadvertent
>> typo, or are you referring to digital goods or services that are
>> used
>> online? If the latter, then we still donât need the extra âor useâ
>> because
>> before you can use goods and services as a consumer you need to
>> purchase
>> them.
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Rosemary Sinclair [mailto:Rosemary.Sinclair at atug.org.au]
>>
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 8:52 PM
>>
>> To: ncsg-ec at n4c.eu; Avri Doria
>>
>> Subject: [ncsg-ec] Rosemary - Update on Consumer Constituency
>> Charter
>> Changes
>>
>>
>> Hi all
>>
>>
>> Always an interesting processâ¦clarifying the focus
>>
>> Also raises question of where NCUC Charter review is up toâ¦.
>>
>> Iâve made some changes to Mission to try to capture some of info
>> below on
>> Consumer Policy
>>
>>
>> 1.1 Mission[KB1]
>>
>>
>> The intended purpose of the Consumers Constituency is to serve as
>> the
>> conduit for consumer interests as they relate to those areas of
>> the Internet
>> within the scope of ICANN. As representatives of consumers, who
>> are using
>> the Internet to purchase or use goods and services, the
>> Constituency will
>> focus on aspects of DNS that impact on consumers such as safety,
>> security,
>> stability, usability, access and any other appropriate concerns to
>> ensure
>> these are adequately represented within ICANN policy development.
>>
>>
>> The CC will work to promote competition, consumer trust, and
>> consumer choice
>> in the DNS marketplace
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> To compare with âNon-commercialââ¦.NCUC Charter draft saysâ¦
>>
>>
>> The purposes of the Noncommercial Users Constituency are to
>> represent
>>
>> the views and interests of those who engage in noncommercial speech
>>
>> and activity on the Internet. It is further created to provide a
>> voice and
>>
>> representation in ICANN processes to non-profit organizations and
>>
>> individuals that serve non-commercial interests and provide
>> services such
>>
>> as education, community organizing, promotion of the arts, public
>> interest
>>
>> policy advocacy, children's welfare, religion, scientific
>> research, human
>>
>> rights and the advancement of the Internet as a global
>> communications
>>
>> system for all segments of society.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>>
>>
>> Rosemary Sinclair
>>
>> Managing Director, ATUG
>>
>> Chairman, INTUG
>>
>> T: +61 2 94958901 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting
>> +61 2
>> 94958901 end_of_the_skype_highlighting F: +61 2 94193889
>>
>> M: +61 413734490 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting
>> +61
>> 413734490 end_of_the_skype_highlighting
>>
>> Email: rosemary.sinclair at atug.org.au
>>
>> Skype: rasinclair
>>
>>
>> Please visit the ATUG website for Updates and Information www.atug.com.au
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rosemary Sinclair
>> Sent: Friday, 22 April 2011 3:29 PM
>> To: Avri Doria; ncsg-ec at n4c.eu
>> Subject: RE: [!! SPAM] SPAM-LOW: Fwd: [ncsg-ec] Fwd: Forward:
>> Update on
>> Consumer Constituency Charter Changes
>>
>>
>> Hi Avri and everyone
>>
>>
>> I've made a couple of comments in the "Mission" section...looking
>> for a link
>> to the AOC ....which I have always seen as a mechanism for
>> mainstreaming the
>> consumer interests in ICANN processes....just a thought!
>>
>>
>> I have just "dumped" the words where I think they might go...not
>> attempt at
>> elegance
>>
>>
>> Not sure how we get a view from Alex/Beau on how they feel about
>> this.....
>>
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>>
>> Rosemary
>>
>>
>>
>> Rosemary Sinclair
>>
>> Managing Director, ATUG
>>
>> Chairman, INTUG
>>
>> T: +61 2 94958901 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting
>> +61 2
>> 94958901 end_of_the_skype_highlighting F: +61 2 94193889
>>
>> M: +61 413734490 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting
>> +61
>> 413734490 end_of_the_skype_highlighting
>>
>> Email: [1]rosemary.sinclair at atug.org.au
>>
>> Skype: rasinclair
>>
>>
>> Please visit the ATUG website for Updates and Information [2]www.atug.com.au
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________________
>>
>> From: Avri Doria [mailto:avri at psg.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, 21 April 2011 7:16 AM
>> To: Rosemary Sinclair
>> Subject: [!! SPAM] SPAM-LOW: Fwd: [ncsg-ec] Fwd: Forward: Update
>> on Consumer
>> Constituency Charter Changes
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>> From: Avri Doria <[3]avri at acm.org>
>>
>> Date: 14 April 2011 16:43:07 GMT+02:00
>>
>> To: NCSG EC <[4]ncsg-ec at n4c.eu>
>>
>> Subject: [ncsg-ec] Fwd: Forward: Update on Consumer Constituency
>> Charter
>> Changes
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>> Alex Gakuru and Beau Brendler have finished the merging of their
>> respective
>> groups and are submitting their charter for the Consumer
>> Constituency for
>> NCSG Executive Committee review and approval.
>>
>>
>> Please review and let's discuss on the list.
>>
>>
>> thanks
>>
>>
>> a.
>>
>>
>>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>> From: Alex Gakuru <[5]gakuru at gmail.com>
>>
>> Date: 14 April 2011 14:54:18 GMT+02:00
>>
>> To: Avri Doria <[6]avri at acm.org>
>>
>> Cc: Konstantinos Komaitis <[7]k.komaitis at strath.ac.uk>, Robin
>> Gross
>> <[8]robin at ipjustice.org>, Milton L Mueller <[9]mueller at syr.edu>
>>
>> Subject: Re: Forward: Update on Consumer Constituency Charter
>> Changes
>>
>> Dear Avri,
>> I requested your advice after San Francisco CC meeting via below
>> message.
>> Could it have been lost to your spam filters?
>> At this point, yes, please accept it a formal submission to NCSG
>> Policy and
>> excuse the route?
>> regards,
>> Alex
>>
>> References
>>
>> 1. mailto:rosemary.sinclair at atug.org.au
>> 2. http://www.atug.com.au/
>> 3. mailto:avri at acm.org
>> 4. mailto:ncsg-ec at n4c.eu
>> 5. mailto:gakuru at gmail.com
>> 6. mailto:avri at acm.org
>> 7. mailto:k.komaitis at strath.ac.uk
>> 8. mailto:robin at ipjustice.org
>> 9. mailto:mueller at syr.edu
>> ------
>> NA-Discuss mailing list
>> NA-Discuss at atlarge-lists.icann.org
>> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss
>>
>> Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org
>> ------
>>
>> ------
>> NA-Discuss mailing list
>> NA-Discuss at atlarge-lists.icann.org
>> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss
>>
>> Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org
>> ------
>
> Mr Michele Neylon
> Blacknight Solutions
> Hosting & Colocation, Brand Protection
> ICANN Accredited Registrar
> http://www.blacknight.com/
> http://blog.blacknight.com/
> http://invadeeurope.eu/
> http://rss.me/
> http://mneylon.tel
> Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072
> US: 213-233-1612
> UK: 0844 484 9361
> Locall: 1850 929 929
> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/mneylon
>
> PS: Check out our latest offers on domains & hosting: http://domainoffers.me/
> -------------------------------
> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business
> Park,Sleaty
> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
>
>
>
>
>
> ------
> NA-Discuss mailing list
> NA-Discuss at atlarge-lists.icann.org
> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/na-discuss
>
> Visit the NARALO online at http://www.naralo.org
> ------
More information about the NA-Discuss
mailing list