[NA-Discuss] Update on Consumer Constituency Charter Changes
Michele Neylon :: Blacknight
michele at blacknight.ie
Fri May 6 16:50:24 UTC 2011
Darlene
This confused me as well
What's the actual difference between "consumers" and "users" ?
My thoughts would pretty much echo Darlene's (in this instance)
Regards
Michele
On 6 May 2011, at 17:40, Thompson, Darlene wrote:
> Hi Beau,
>
> I read everything below and have comments on the users/consumers issue. Perhaps I am too new at this game to fully understand the issue but it seems a little odd to me.
>
> If I go to the grocery store and buy food and then eat it, I've just consumed the food. If I go to a friend's house and they give me food for free and I eat it, I've just consumed the food.
>
> How does this differ for the internet? Whether the product is free or at a cost, we are still consuming them. Also, by encouraging competition, I then have a choice amongst the free products and will choose the one that suits my needs the best prior to consuming it. After consuming it, I may then choose to purchase the upgraded version (or not). I am still a consumer either way.
>
> Am I being extremely naïve and simplistic here?
>
> D
>
> Darlene A. Thompson
> Community Access Program Administrator
> Nunavut Dept. of Education / N-CAP
> P.O. Box 1000, Station 910
> Iqaluit, NU X0A 0H0
> Phone: (867) 975-5631
> Fax: (867) 975-5610
> E-mail: dthompson at gov.nu.ca
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: na-discuss-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:na-discuss-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Beau Brendler
> Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 11:58 AM
> To: na-discuss at atlarge-lists.icann.org
> Subject: [NA-Discuss] Update on Consumer Constituency Charter Changes
>
>
> Those interested in the Consumer Constituency, may I ask that you read the
> exchange between Rosemary Sinclair (in which she has excerpted the comments
> of others) below. Please offer any comments as soon as possible. I think
> most of us involved in this would like to see it move forward without too
> much further delay.
> Thanks
> Beau
>
> -----Forwarded Message-----
> From: Beau Brendler
> Sent: May 6, 2011 11:52 AM
> To: Rosemary Sinclair , Alex Gakuru , ncsg-ec at n4c.eu
> Subject: Re: : Update on Consumer Constituency Charter Changes
> Thanks for this.
> So the suggested new mission statement is this, correct?:
>
> The intended purpose of the Consumers Constituency is to serve as the
> conduit for consumer interests as they relate to those areas of the
> Internet within the scope of ICANN. As representatives of consumers, who
> are using the Internet to purchase or use goods and services, the
> Constituency will focus on aspects of DNS that impact on consumers such as
> safety, security, stability, usability, access and any other appropriate
> concerns to ensure these are adequately represented within ICANN policy
> development.
>
>
> The CC will work to promote competition, consumer trust, and consumer
> choice in the DNS marketplace.
> With your permission, I will forward this around to some folks who have
> been involved in the CC for a while and see what they think. My guess is
> that there will be no problem. I'd like to forward it to NA-Discuss,
> possibly other ICANN lists.
> I'll give you some thoughts in the form of pros and cons.
> Pros first:
> * Going back to the purchasing goods and services thing is fine with me.
> In fact, there was some language in the previous CC proposed charters that
> was very similar. There's a con to this as well, see below for cons.
> * Seems to me this is a good way to delineate what is in the purview of
> the NCUC and what is in the purview of CC. In fact, some people have
> suggested that we should call it "consumer protection constituency"
> instead of just consumer. I'm fine either way. However, the NCUC could
> rightly argue that their mission involves consumer protection as well,
> specifically on privacy issues, so I'll just note that here.
> * This language would certainly be easier for consumer organizations
> (Consumentenbond, Test-Achat, my former employer, etc.) to grab onto.
> * I like the reference presumably to the AOC in the part that says: "The
> CC will work to promote competition, consumer trust, and consumer choice
> in the DNS marketplace." Parroting some of the ICANN aspirational language
> would seem to be important at this phase in a bureaucratic and political
> sense.
> Cons next:
> * The terms "consumer" and "consumer choice" really seem to derail people.
> When Alex and I convened the meeting in San Francisco, most of the
> feedback we got was discomfort with these terms and their meaning. So
> there is still an audience out there in the community who don't yet
> understand where "end-users" or "regular folks" fit in to the mix here, or
> within the NCUC. Further, if we are going to use the word "consumer
> choice" in the mission, then I would be in favor of defining what exactly
> that means, because I don't really know, and neither did several members
> of the ICANN board I spoke to in SF. Does that refer to the pricing of
> services offered by registrars and registries, etc.? Similarly, what is
> meant by "competition"?
> * Generally speaking, though the group Alex and I convened in SF was
> small, there was a lot of dissatisfaction with limiting the scope of the
> consumer constituency to purchase of goods and services. I don't
> necessarily agree with that dissatisfaction. However, the more generalized
> proposed mission statement of the constituency that we came up with after
> SF, and that Milton is probably referring to in his comment, was literally
> "written" by the audience who attended that meeting on what the CC should
> be about, not by Alex or by me -- we really just shaped the feedback. So
> there is some alienation risk of that community, but I don't think that
> should hold us back from moving forward.
> * In other conversations with members of the ICANN board I had, there was
> limited to no agreement on what the word "consumer" means. So however we
> go forward, I think we have to be clear on how (and by whom) the plain old
> "end-user" or regular human being is being represented in GNSO policy
> making.
> * Can a reasonable argument be made, in light of the current NCUC mission
> language, that the Consumer Constituency, with its emphasis on the
> purchasing of goods and services, etc., therefore be better aligned with
> commercial or business interests? I'm not saying it should, but am
> wondering if that argument will be made. And I assume that issue would be
> addressed by the characteristics of the consumer constituency itself.
> * This purchasing of goods and services language precedes Alex's
> involvement in the formation of the constituency, so I don't know what his
> comfort level with that language is. Alex, what do you think?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rosemary Sinclair
> Sent: May 5, 2011 9:02 PM
> To: Alex Gakuru , Beau Brendler , ncsg-ec at n4c.eu
> Subject: : Update on Consumer Constituency Charter Changes
>
> Hi Alex and Beau
>
>
> Here are some comments/discussion from NCSG EC on the proposed Consumer
> Charter
>
>
> Iâve included the latest comments from email discussion below for you to see
> how our thinking has been evolving
>
>
> We think itâs best for you to have a look now and let us know how youâd like
> to proceedâ¦
>
>
> Cheers
>
>
> Rosemary
>
>
> Milton wrote:
>
>
> But in that case they are not âconsumersâ they are âusersâ. What I am trying
> to avoid is a fragmentation of âuserâ representation across NCUC and CC.
> Each âconstituencyâ should have a clearly circumscribed domain and not
> purport to speak for each other.
>
>
>
> ROSEMARY wrote:
>
>
> but some goods and services may be "free" ....so I included "use"
>
>
> From: Milton L Mueller [mailto:mueller at syr.edu]
>
> Sent: Thursday, 28 April 2011 1:15 AM
>
> To: ncsg-ec at n4c.eu; Avri Doria
>
> Subject: [ncsg-ec] RE: Rosemary - Update on Consumer Constituency Charter
> Changes
>
>
> This looks just about right to me. The purchase of goods and services seems
> an inalienable part of our concept of âconsumerâ so I like this
> clarification. But I am still confused by the phrase âwho are using the
> internet to purchase _or use_ goods and servicesâ ?? Is that an inadvertent
> typo, or are you referring to digital goods or services that are used
> online? If the latter, then we still donât need the extra âor useâ because
> before you can use goods and services as a consumer you need to purchase
> them.
>
>
>
> From: Rosemary Sinclair [mailto:Rosemary.Sinclair at atug.org.au]
>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 8:52 PM
>
> To: ncsg-ec at n4c.eu; Avri Doria
>
> Subject: [ncsg-ec] Rosemary - Update on Consumer Constituency Charter
> Changes
>
>
> Hi all
>
>
> Always an interesting processâ¦clarifying the focus
>
> Also raises question of where NCUC Charter review is up toâ¦.
>
> Iâve made some changes to Mission to try to capture some of info below on
> Consumer Policy
>
>
> 1.1 Mission[KB1]
>
>
> The intended purpose of the Consumers Constituency is to serve as the
> conduit for consumer interests as they relate to those areas of the Internet
> within the scope of ICANN. As representatives of consumers, who are using
> the Internet to purchase or use goods and services, the Constituency will
> focus on aspects of DNS that impact on consumers such as safety, security,
> stability, usability, access and any other appropriate concerns to ensure
> these are adequately represented within ICANN policy development.
>
>
> The CC will work to promote competition, consumer trust, and consumer choice
> in the DNS marketplace
>
>
>
>
> To compare with âNon-commercialââ¦.NCUC Charter draft saysâ¦
>
>
> The purposes of the Noncommercial Users Constituency are to represent
>
> the views and interests of those who engage in noncommercial speech
>
> and activity on the Internet. It is further created to provide a voice and
>
> representation in ICANN processes to non-profit organizations and
>
> individuals that serve non-commercial interests and provide services such
>
> as education, community organizing, promotion of the arts, public interest
>
> policy advocacy, children's welfare, religion, scientific research, human
>
> rights and the advancement of the Internet as a global communications
>
> system for all segments of society.
>
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
>
>
> Rosemary Sinclair
>
> Managing Director, ATUG
>
> Chairman, INTUG
>
> T: +61 2 94958901 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting +61 2
> 94958901 end_of_the_skype_highlighting F: +61 2 94193889
>
> M: +61 413734490 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting +61
> 413734490 end_of_the_skype_highlighting
>
> Email: rosemary.sinclair at atug.org.au
>
> Skype: rasinclair
>
>
> Please visit the ATUG website for Updates and Information www.atug.com.au
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rosemary Sinclair
> Sent: Friday, 22 April 2011 3:29 PM
> To: Avri Doria; ncsg-ec at n4c.eu
> Subject: RE: [!! SPAM] SPAM-LOW: Fwd: [ncsg-ec] Fwd: Forward: Update on
> Consumer Constituency Charter Changes
>
>
> Hi Avri and everyone
>
>
> I've made a couple of comments in the "Mission" section...looking for a link
> to the AOC ....which I have always seen as a mechanism for mainstreaming the
> consumer interests in ICANN processes....just a thought!
>
>
> I have just "dumped" the words where I think they might go...not attempt at
> elegance
>
>
> Not sure how we get a view from Alex/Beau on how they feel about this.....
>
>
> Cheers
>
>
> Rosemary
>
>
>
> Rosemary Sinclair
>
> Managing Director, ATUG
>
> Chairman, INTUG
>
> T: +61 2 94958901 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting +61 2
> 94958901 end_of_the_skype_highlighting F: +61 2 94193889
>
> M: +61 413734490 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting +61
> 413734490 end_of_the_skype_highlighting
>
> Email: [1]rosemary.sinclair at atug.org.au
>
> Skype: rasinclair
>
>
> Please visit the ATUG website for Updates and Information [2]www.atug.com.au
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
>
> From: Avri Doria [mailto:avri at psg.com]
> Sent: Thursday, 21 April 2011 7:16 AM
> To: Rosemary Sinclair
> Subject: [!! SPAM] SPAM-LOW: Fwd: [ncsg-ec] Fwd: Forward: Update on Consumer
> Constituency Charter Changes
>
>
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> From: Avri Doria <[3]avri at acm.org>
>
> Date: 14 April 2011 16:43:07 GMT+02:00
>
> To: NCSG EC <[4]ncsg-ec at n4c.eu>
>
> Subject: [ncsg-ec] Fwd: Forward: Update on Consumer Constituency Charter
> Changes
>
>
> Hi,
>
>
> Alex Gakuru and Beau Brendler have finished the merging of their respective
> groups and are submitting their charter for the Consumer Constituency for
> NCSG Executive Committee review and approval.
>
>
> Please review and let's discuss on the list.
>
>
> thanks
>
>
> a.
>
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> From: Alex Gakuru <[5]gakuru at gmail.com>
>
> Date: 14 April 2011 14:54:18 GMT+02:00
>
> To: Avri Doria <[6]avri at acm.org>
>
> Cc: Konstantinos Komaitis <[7]k.komaitis at strath.ac.uk>, Robin Gross
> <[8]robin at ipjustice.org>, Milton L Mueller <[9]mueller at syr.edu>
>
> Subject: Re: Forward: Update on Consumer Constituency Charter Changes
>
> Dear Avri,
> I requested your advice after San Francisco CC meeting via below message.
> Could it have been lost to your spam filters?
> At this point, yes, please accept it a formal submission to NCSG Policy and
> excuse the route?
> regards,
> Alex
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:rosemary.sinclair at atug.org.au
> 2. http://www.atug.com.au/
> 3. mailto:avri at acm.org
> 4. mailto:ncsg-ec at n4c.eu
> 5. mailto:gakuru at gmail.com
> 6. mailto:avri at acm.org
> 7. mailto:k.komaitis at strath.ac.uk
> 8. mailto:robin at ipjustice.org
> 9. mailto:mueller at syr.edu
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Mr Michele Neylon
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