[NA-Discuss] Update on Consumer Constituency Charter Changes

Michele Neylon :: Blacknight michele at blacknight.ie
Fri May 6 16:50:24 UTC 2011


Darlene

This confused me as well

What's the actual difference between "consumers" and "users" ?

My thoughts would pretty much echo Darlene's (in this instance)

Regards

Michele

On 6 May 2011, at 17:40, Thompson, Darlene wrote:

> Hi Beau,
> 
> I read everything below and have comments on the users/consumers issue.  Perhaps I am too new at this game to fully understand the issue but it seems a little odd to me.
> 
> If I go to the grocery store and buy food and then eat it, I've just consumed the food.  If I go to a friend's house and they give me food for free and I eat it, I've just consumed the food.
> 
> How does this differ for the internet?  Whether the product is free or at a cost, we are still consuming them.  Also, by encouraging competition, I then have a choice amongst the free products and will choose the one that suits my needs the best prior to consuming it.  After consuming it, I may then choose to purchase the upgraded version (or not).  I am still a consumer either way.
> 
> Am I being extremely naïve and simplistic here?
> 
> D
> 
> Darlene A. Thompson
> Community Access Program Administrator
> Nunavut Dept. of Education / N-CAP
> P.O. Box 1000, Station 910
> Iqaluit, NU  X0A 0H0
> Phone:  (867) 975-5631
> Fax:  (867) 975-5610
> E-mail:  dthompson at gov.nu.ca
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: na-discuss-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org [mailto:na-discuss-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Beau Brendler
> Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 11:58 AM
> To: na-discuss at atlarge-lists.icann.org
> Subject: [NA-Discuss] Update on Consumer Constituency Charter Changes
> 
> 
>   Those interested in the Consumer Constituency, may I ask that you read the
>   exchange between Rosemary Sinclair (in which she has excerpted the comments
>   of others) below. Please offer any comments as soon as possible. I think
>   most of us involved in this would like to see it move forward without too
>   much further delay.
>   Thanks
>   Beau
> 
>     -----Forwarded Message-----
>     From: Beau Brendler
>     Sent: May 6, 2011 11:52 AM
>     To: Rosemary Sinclair , Alex Gakuru , ncsg-ec at n4c.eu
>     Subject: Re: : Update on Consumer Constituency Charter Changes
>     Thanks for this.
>     So the suggested new mission statement is this, correct?:
> 
>     The intended purpose of the Consumers Constituency is to serve as the
>     conduit for consumer interests as they relate to those areas of the
>     Internet within the scope of ICANN.  As representatives of consumers, who
>     are  using  the Internet to purchase or use goods and services, the
>     Constituency will focus on aspects of DNS that impact on consumers such as
>     safety, security, stability, usability, access and any other appropriate
>     concerns to ensure these are adequately represented within ICANN policy
>     development.
> 
> 
>     The CC will work to promote competition, consumer trust, and consumer
>     choice in the DNS marketplace.
>     With your permission, I will forward this around to some folks who have
>     been involved in the CC for a while and see what they think. My guess is
>     that there will be no problem. I'd like to forward it to NA-Discuss,
>     possibly other ICANN lists.
>     I'll give you some thoughts in the form of pros and cons.
>     Pros first:
>     * Going back to the purchasing goods and services thing is fine with me.
>     In fact, there was some language in the previous CC proposed charters that
>     was very similar. There's a con to this as well, see below for cons.
>     * Seems to me this is a good way to delineate what is in the purview of
>     the NCUC and what is in the purview of CC. In fact, some people have
>     suggested that we should call it "consumer protection constituency"
>     instead of just consumer. I'm fine either way. However, the NCUC could
>     rightly argue that their mission involves consumer protection as well,
>     specifically on privacy issues, so I'll just note that here.
>     * This language would certainly be easier for consumer organizations
>     (Consumentenbond, Test-Achat, my former employer, etc.) to grab onto.
>     * I like the reference presumably to the AOC in the part that says: "The
>     CC will work to promote competition, consumer trust, and consumer choice
>     in the DNS marketplace." Parroting some of the ICANN aspirational language
>     would seem to be important at this phase in a bureaucratic and political
>     sense.
>     Cons next:
>     * The terms "consumer" and "consumer choice" really seem to derail people.
>     When  Alex and I convened the meeting in San Francisco, most of the
>     feedback we got was discomfort with these terms and their meaning. So
>     there is still an audience out there in the community who don't yet
>     understand where "end-users" or "regular folks" fit in to the mix here, or
>     within the NCUC. Further, if we are going to use the word "consumer
>     choice" in the mission, then I would be in favor of defining what exactly
>     that means, because I don't really know, and neither did several members
>     of the ICANN board I spoke to in SF. Does that refer to the pricing of
>     services offered by registrars and registries, etc.? Similarly, what is
>     meant by "competition"?
>     * Generally speaking, though the group Alex and I convened in SF was
>     small, there was a lot of dissatisfaction with limiting the scope of the
>     consumer  constituency  to  purchase of goods and services. I don't
>     necessarily agree with that dissatisfaction. However, the more generalized
>     proposed mission statement of the constituency that we came up with after
>     SF, and that Milton is probably referring to in his comment, was literally
>     "written" by the audience who attended that meeting on what the CC should
>     be about, not by Alex or by me -- we really just shaped the feedback. So
>     there is some alienation risk of that community, but I don't think that
>     should hold us back from moving forward.
>     * In other conversations with members of the ICANN board I had, there was
>     limited to no agreement on what the word "consumer" means. So however we
>     go forward, I think we have to be clear on how (and by whom) the plain old
>     "end-user" or regular human being is being represented in GNSO policy
>     making.
>     * Can a reasonable argument be made, in light of the current NCUC mission
>     language,  that the Consumer Constituency, with its emphasis on the
>     purchasing of goods and services, etc., therefore be better aligned with
>     commercial  or business interests? I'm not saying it should, but am
>     wondering if that argument will be made. And I assume that issue would be
>     addressed by the characteristics of the consumer constituency itself.
>     *  This  purchasing  of goods and services language precedes Alex's
>     involvement in the formation of the constituency, so I don't know what his
>     comfort level with that language is. Alex, what do you think?
> 
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: Rosemary Sinclair
>     Sent: May 5, 2011 9:02 PM
>     To: Alex Gakuru , Beau Brendler , ncsg-ec at n4c.eu
>     Subject: : Update on Consumer Constituency Charter Changes
> 
>   Hi Alex and Beau
> 
> 
>   Here are some comments/discussion from NCSG EC on the proposed Consumer
>   Charter
> 
> 
>   Iâve included the latest comments from email discussion below for you to see
>   how our thinking has been evolving
> 
> 
>   We think itâs best for you to have a look now and let us know how youâd like
>   to proceedâ¦
> 
> 
>   Cheers
> 
> 
>   Rosemary
> 
> 
>   Milton wrote: 
> 
> 
>   But in that case they are not âconsumersâ they are âusersâ. What I am trying
>   to avoid is a fragmentation of âuserâ representation across NCUC and CC.
>   Each âconstituencyâ should have a clearly circumscribed domain and not
>   purport to speak for each other.
> 
> 
> 
>   ROSEMARY wrote:
> 
> 
>   but some goods and services may be "free" ....so I included "use"
> 
> 
>   From: Milton L Mueller [mailto:mueller at syr.edu]
> 
>   Sent: Thursday, 28 April 2011 1:15 AM
> 
>   To: ncsg-ec at n4c.eu; Avri Doria
> 
>   Subject: [ncsg-ec] RE: Rosemary - Update on Consumer Constituency Charter
>   Changes
> 
> 
>   This looks just about right to me. The purchase of goods and services seems
>   an  inalienable  part  of  our  concept  of  âconsumerâ so I like this
>   clarification. But I am still confused by the phrase âwho are using the
>   internet to purchase _or use_ goods and servicesâ ?? Is that an inadvertent
>   typo,  or are you referring to digital goods or services that are used
>   online? If the latter, then we still donât need the extra âor useâ because
>   before you can use goods and services as a consumer you need to purchase
>   them.
> 
> 
> 
>   From: Rosemary Sinclair [mailto:Rosemary.Sinclair at atug.org.au]
> 
>   Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 8:52 PM
> 
>   To: ncsg-ec at n4c.eu; Avri Doria
> 
>   Subject:  [ncsg-ec] Rosemary - Update on Consumer Constituency Charter
>   Changes
> 
> 
>   Hi all
> 
> 
>   Always an interesting processâ¦clarifying the focus
> 
>   Also raises question of where NCUC Charter review is up toâ¦.
> 
>   Iâve made some changes to Mission to try to capture some of info below on
>   Consumer Policy
> 
> 
>   1.1              Mission[KB1]
> 
> 
>   The  intended purpose of the Consumers Constituency is to serve as the
>   conduit for consumer interests as they relate to those areas of the Internet
>   within the scope of ICANN.  As representatives of consumers, who are using
>   the Internet to purchase or use goods and services, the Constituency will
>   focus on aspects of DNS that impact on consumers such as safety, security,
>   stability, usability, access and any other appropriate concerns to ensure
>   these are adequately represented within ICANN policy development.
> 
> 
>   The CC will work to promote competition, consumer trust, and consumer choice
>   in the DNS marketplace
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   To compare with âNon-commercialââ¦.NCUC Charter draft saysâ¦
> 
> 
>   The purposes of the Noncommercial Users Constituency are to represent
> 
>   the views and interests of those who engage in noncommercial speech
> 
>   and activity on the Internet. It is further created to provide a voice and
> 
>   representation in ICANN processes to non-profit organizations and
> 
>   individuals that serve non-commercial interests and provide services such
> 
>   as education, community organizing, promotion of the arts, public interest
> 
>   policy advocacy, children's welfare, religion, scientific research, human
> 
>   rights and the advancement of the Internet as a global communications
> 
>   system for all segments of society.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   Cheers
> 
> 
> 
>   Rosemary Sinclair
> 
>   Managing Director, ATUG
> 
>   Chairman, INTUG
> 
>   T:  +61  2  94958901  begin_of_the_skype_highlighting            +61 2
>   94958901      end_of_the_skype_highlighting  F: +61 2 94193889
> 
>   M:    +61   413734490   begin_of_the_skype_highlighting            +61
>   413734490      end_of_the_skype_highlighting
> 
>   Email: rosemary.sinclair at atug.org.au
> 
>   Skype: rasinclair
> 
> 
>   Please visit the ATUG website for Updates and Information www.atug.com.au
> 
> 
> 
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: Rosemary Sinclair
>   Sent: Friday, 22 April 2011 3:29 PM
>   To: Avri Doria; ncsg-ec at n4c.eu
>   Subject: RE: [!! SPAM] SPAM-LOW: Fwd: [ncsg-ec] Fwd: Forward: Update on
>   Consumer Constituency Charter Changes
> 
> 
>   Hi Avri and everyone
> 
> 
>   I've made a couple of comments in the "Mission" section...looking for a link
>   to the AOC ....which I have always seen as a mechanism for mainstreaming the
>   consumer interests in ICANN processes....just a thought!
> 
> 
>   I have just "dumped" the words where I think they might go...not attempt at
>   elegance
> 
> 
>   Not sure how we get a view from Alex/Beau on how they feel about this.....
> 
> 
>   Cheers
> 
> 
>   Rosemary
> 
> 
> 
>   Rosemary Sinclair
> 
>   Managing Director, ATUG
> 
>   Chairman, INTUG
> 
>   T:  +61  2  94958901  begin_of_the_skype_highlighting            +61 2
>   94958901      end_of_the_skype_highlighting  F: +61 2 94193889
> 
>   M:    +61   413734490   begin_of_the_skype_highlighting            +61
>   413734490      end_of_the_skype_highlighting
> 
>   Email: [1]rosemary.sinclair at atug.org.au
> 
>   Skype: rasinclair
> 
> 
>   Please visit the ATUG website for Updates and Information [2]www.atug.com.au
> 
>   ______________________________________________________________________
> 
>   From: Avri Doria [mailto:avri at psg.com]
>   Sent: Thursday, 21 April 2011 7:16 AM
>   To: Rosemary Sinclair
>   Subject: [!! SPAM] SPAM-LOW: Fwd: [ncsg-ec] Fwd: Forward: Update on Consumer
>   Constituency Charter Changes
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   Begin forwarded message:
> 
>   From: Avri Doria <[3]avri at acm.org>
> 
>   Date: 14 April 2011 16:43:07 GMT+02:00
> 
>   To: NCSG EC <[4]ncsg-ec at n4c.eu>
> 
>   Subject: [ncsg-ec] Fwd: Forward: Update on Consumer Constituency Charter
>   Changes
> 
> 
>   Hi,
> 
> 
>   Alex Gakuru and Beau Brendler  have finished the merging of their respective
>   groups and are submitting their charter for the Consumer Constituency for
>   NCSG Executive Committee review and approval.
> 
> 
>   Please review and let's discuss on the list.
> 
> 
>   thanks
> 
> 
>   a.
> 
> 
> 
>   Begin forwarded message:
> 
>   From: Alex Gakuru <[5]gakuru at gmail.com>
> 
>   Date: 14 April 2011 14:54:18 GMT+02:00
> 
>   To: Avri Doria <[6]avri at acm.org>
> 
>   Cc:  Konstantinos  Komaitis  <[7]k.komaitis at strath.ac.uk>, Robin Gross
>   <[8]robin at ipjustice.org>, Milton L Mueller <[9]mueller at syr.edu>
> 
>   Subject: Re: Forward: Update on Consumer Constituency Charter Changes
> 
>   Dear Avri,
>   I requested your advice after San Francisco CC meeting via below message.
>   Could it have been lost to your spam filters?
>   At this point, yes, please accept it a formal submission to NCSG Policy and
>   excuse the route?
>   regards,
>   Alex
> 
> References
> 
>   1. mailto:rosemary.sinclair at atug.org.au
>   2. http://www.atug.com.au/
>   3. mailto:avri at acm.org
>   4. mailto:ncsg-ec at n4c.eu
>   5. mailto:gakuru at gmail.com
>   6. mailto:avri at acm.org
>   7. mailto:k.komaitis at strath.ac.uk
>   8. mailto:robin at ipjustice.org
>   9. mailto:mueller at syr.edu
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Mr Michele Neylon
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