[NA-Discuss] Update on Consumer Constituency Charter Changes
Beau Brendler
beaubrendler at earthlink.net
Fri May 6 15:58:24 UTC 2011
Those interested in the Consumer Constituency, may I ask that you read the
exchange between Rosemary Sinclair (in which she has excerpted the comments
of others) below. Please offer any comments as soon as possible. I think
most of us involved in this would like to see it move forward without too
much further delay.
Thanks
Beau
-----Forwarded Message-----
From: Beau Brendler
Sent: May 6, 2011 11:52 AM
To: Rosemary Sinclair , Alex Gakuru , ncsg-ec at n4c.eu
Subject: Re: : Update on Consumer Constituency Charter Changes
Thanks for this.
So the suggested new mission statement is this, correct?:
The intended purpose of the Consumers Constituency is to serve as the
conduit for consumer interests as they relate to those areas of the
Internet within the scope of ICANN. As representatives of consumers, who
are using the Internet to purchase or use goods and services, the
Constituency will focus on aspects of DNS that impact on consumers such as
safety, security, stability, usability, access and any other appropriate
concerns to ensure these are adequately represented within ICANN policy
development.
The CC will work to promote competition, consumer trust, and consumer
choice in the DNS marketplace.
With your permission, I will forward this around to some folks who have
been involved in the CC for a while and see what they think. My guess is
that there will be no problem. I'd like to forward it to NA-Discuss,
possibly other ICANN lists.
I'll give you some thoughts in the form of pros and cons.
Pros first:
* Going back to the purchasing goods and services thing is fine with me.
In fact, there was some language in the previous CC proposed charters that
was very similar. There's a con to this as well, see below for cons.
* Seems to me this is a good way to delineate what is in the purview of
the NCUC and what is in the purview of CC. In fact, some people have
suggested that we should call it "consumer protection constituency"
instead of just consumer. I'm fine either way. However, the NCUC could
rightly argue that their mission involves consumer protection as well,
specifically on privacy issues, so I'll just note that here.
* This language would certainly be easier for consumer organizations
(Consumentenbond, Test-Achat, my former employer, etc.) to grab onto.
* I like the reference presumably to the AOC in the part that says: "The
CC will work to promote competition, consumer trust, and consumer choice
in the DNS marketplace." Parroting some of the ICANN aspirational language
would seem to be important at this phase in a bureaucratic and political
sense.
Cons next:
* The terms "consumer" and "consumer choice" really seem to derail people.
When Alex and I convened the meeting in San Francisco, most of the
feedback we got was discomfort with these terms and their meaning. So
there is still an audience out there in the community who don't yet
understand where "end-users" or "regular folks" fit in to the mix here, or
within the NCUC. Further, if we are going to use the word "consumer
choice" in the mission, then I would be in favor of defining what exactly
that means, because I don't really know, and neither did several members
of the ICANN board I spoke to in SF. Does that refer to the pricing of
services offered by registrars and registries, etc.? Similarly, what is
meant by "competition"?
* Generally speaking, though the group Alex and I convened in SF was
small, there was a lot of dissatisfaction with limiting the scope of the
consumer constituency to purchase of goods and services. I don't
necessarily agree with that dissatisfaction. However, the more generalized
proposed mission statement of the constituency that we came up with after
SF, and that Milton is probably referring to in his comment, was literally
"written" by the audience who attended that meeting on what the CC should
be about, not by Alex or by me -- we really just shaped the feedback. So
there is some alienation risk of that community, but I don't think that
should hold us back from moving forward.
* In other conversations with members of the ICANN board I had, there was
limited to no agreement on what the word "consumer" means. So however we
go forward, I think we have to be clear on how (and by whom) the plain old
"end-user" or regular human being is being represented in GNSO policy
making.
* Can a reasonable argument be made, in light of the current NCUC mission
language, that the Consumer Constituency, with its emphasis on the
purchasing of goods and services, etc., therefore be better aligned with
commercial or business interests? I'm not saying it should, but am
wondering if that argument will be made. And I assume that issue would be
addressed by the characteristics of the consumer constituency itself.
* This purchasing of goods and services language precedes Alex's
involvement in the formation of the constituency, so I don't know what his
comfort level with that language is. Alex, what do you think?
-----Original Message-----
From: Rosemary Sinclair
Sent: May 5, 2011 9:02 PM
To: Alex Gakuru , Beau Brendler , ncsg-ec at n4c.eu
Subject: : Update on Consumer Constituency Charter Changes
Hi Alex and Beau
Here are some comments/discussion from NCSG EC on the proposed Consumer
Charter
Iâve included the latest comments from email discussion below for you to see
how our thinking has been evolving
We think itâs best for you to have a look now and let us know how youâd like
to proceedâ¦
Cheers
Rosemary
Milton wrote:
But in that case they are not âconsumersâ they are âusersâ. What I am trying
to avoid is a fragmentation of âuserâ representation across NCUC and CC.
Each âconstituencyâ should have a clearly circumscribed domain and not
purport to speak for each other.
ROSEMARY wrote:
but some goods and services may be "free" ....so I included "use"
From: Milton L Mueller [mailto:mueller at syr.edu]
Sent: Thursday, 28 April 2011 1:15 AM
To: ncsg-ec at n4c.eu; Avri Doria
Subject: [ncsg-ec] RE: Rosemary - Update on Consumer Constituency Charter
Changes
This looks just about right to me. The purchase of goods and services seems
an inalienable part of our concept of âconsumerâ so I like this
clarification. But I am still confused by the phrase âwho are using the
internet to purchase _or use_ goods and servicesâ ?? Is that an inadvertent
typo, or are you referring to digital goods or services that are used
online? If the latter, then we still donât need the extra âor useâ because
before you can use goods and services as a consumer you need to purchase
them.
From: Rosemary Sinclair [mailto:Rosemary.Sinclair at atug.org.au]
Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 8:52 PM
To: ncsg-ec at n4c.eu; Avri Doria
Subject: [ncsg-ec] Rosemary - Update on Consumer Constituency Charter
Changes
Hi all
Always an interesting processâ¦clarifying the focus
Also raises question of where NCUC Charter review is up toâ¦.
Iâve made some changes to Mission to try to capture some of info below on
Consumer Policy
1.1 Mission[KB1]
The intended purpose of the Consumers Constituency is to serve as the
conduit for consumer interests as they relate to those areas of the Internet
within the scope of ICANN. As representatives of consumers, who are using
the Internet to purchase or use goods and services, the Constituency will
focus on aspects of DNS that impact on consumers such as safety, security,
stability, usability, access and any other appropriate concerns to ensure
these are adequately represented within ICANN policy development.
The CC will work to promote competition, consumer trust, and consumer choice
in the DNS marketplace
To compare with âNon-commercialââ¦.NCUC Charter draft saysâ¦
The purposes of the Noncommercial Users Constituency are to represent
the views and interests of those who engage in noncommercial speech
and activity on the Internet. It is further created to provide a voice and
representation in ICANN processes to non-profit organizations and
individuals that serve non-commercial interests and provide services such
as education, community organizing, promotion of the arts, public interest
policy advocacy, children's welfare, religion, scientific research, human
rights and the advancement of the Internet as a global communications
system for all segments of society.
Cheers
Rosemary Sinclair
Managing Director, ATUG
Chairman, INTUG
T: +61 2 94958901 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting +61 2
94958901 end_of_the_skype_highlighting F: +61 2 94193889
M: +61 413734490 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting +61
413734490 end_of_the_skype_highlighting
Email: rosemary.sinclair at atug.org.au
Skype: rasinclair
Please visit the ATUG website for Updates and Information www.atug.com.au
-----Original Message-----
From: Rosemary Sinclair
Sent: Friday, 22 April 2011 3:29 PM
To: Avri Doria; ncsg-ec at n4c.eu
Subject: RE: [!! SPAM] SPAM-LOW: Fwd: [ncsg-ec] Fwd: Forward: Update on
Consumer Constituency Charter Changes
Hi Avri and everyone
I've made a couple of comments in the "Mission" section...looking for a link
to the AOC ....which I have always seen as a mechanism for mainstreaming the
consumer interests in ICANN processes....just a thought!
I have just "dumped" the words where I think they might go...not attempt at
elegance
Not sure how we get a view from Alex/Beau on how they feel about this.....
Cheers
Rosemary
Rosemary Sinclair
Managing Director, ATUG
Chairman, INTUG
T: +61 2 94958901 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting +61 2
94958901 end_of_the_skype_highlighting F: +61 2 94193889
M: +61 413734490 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting +61
413734490 end_of_the_skype_highlighting
Email: [1]rosemary.sinclair at atug.org.au
Skype: rasinclair
Please visit the ATUG website for Updates and Information [2]www.atug.com.au
______________________________________________________________________
From: Avri Doria [mailto:avri at psg.com]
Sent: Thursday, 21 April 2011 7:16 AM
To: Rosemary Sinclair
Subject: [!! SPAM] SPAM-LOW: Fwd: [ncsg-ec] Fwd: Forward: Update on Consumer
Constituency Charter Changes
Begin forwarded message:
From: Avri Doria <[3]avri at acm.org>
Date: 14 April 2011 16:43:07 GMT+02:00
To: NCSG EC <[4]ncsg-ec at n4c.eu>
Subject: [ncsg-ec] Fwd: Forward: Update on Consumer Constituency Charter
Changes
Hi,
Alex Gakuru and Beau Brendler have finished the merging of their respective
groups and are submitting their charter for the Consumer Constituency for
NCSG Executive Committee review and approval.
Please review and let's discuss on the list.
thanks
a.
Begin forwarded message:
From: Alex Gakuru <[5]gakuru at gmail.com>
Date: 14 April 2011 14:54:18 GMT+02:00
To: Avri Doria <[6]avri at acm.org>
Cc: Konstantinos Komaitis <[7]k.komaitis at strath.ac.uk>, Robin Gross
<[8]robin at ipjustice.org>, Milton L Mueller <[9]mueller at syr.edu>
Subject: Re: Forward: Update on Consumer Constituency Charter Changes
Dear Avri,
I requested your advice after San Francisco CC meeting via below message.
Could it have been lost to your spam filters?
At this point, yes, please accept it a formal submission to NCSG Policy and
excuse the route?
regards,
Alex
References
1. mailto:rosemary.sinclair at atug.org.au
2. http://www.atug.com.au/
3. mailto:avri at acm.org
4. mailto:ncsg-ec at n4c.eu
5. mailto:gakuru at gmail.com
6. mailto:avri at acm.org
7. mailto:k.komaitis at strath.ac.uk
8. mailto:robin at ipjustice.org
9. mailto:mueller at syr.edu
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