[lac-discuss-es] At-Large Solicitud de Escrito Comunidad ¡Opina - Recomendaciones del Grupo de Trabajo sobre Regiones Geográficas
Alejandro Pisanty
apisanty en gmail.com
Mar Ene 7 01:52:33 UTC 2014
Carlton,
thanks for this very valuable detailed description; you make this sound
like a Special Interest Group, not an ICANN-proper Working Group. Guess we
will have to go way back to understand motivations and conflicts of the
participants. If the WG was bound to arrive at a constrained type of result
from predetermined agendas and self-selection of participants, we have a
much larger problem than deciding whether to suggest 3- or 5-year periods
between region changes.
Yours,
Alejandro Pisanty
On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 10:41 AM, Carlton Samuels
<carlton.samuels en gmail.com>wrote:
> Hi Alejandro:
> To answer your questions, its probably best to frame the answer with some
> background.
>
> The WG was chaired by Dave Archbold my friend and neighbour from the
> Cayman Islands. He is a member of the ccNSO community. Dave is originally
> Brit but living in the CI coming on 30 years. He's islander to the core and
> a Caribbean man as ever. In fact, he's spent more time living in the
> Caribbean than I have. The Cayman Islands, once a dependency of Jamaica,
> is 45 minutes by jet from Kingston, Jamaica. It is politically a British
> Overseas Territory. Under existing ICANN geographic rules and for the
> purposes of the At-Large, the Cayman Islands would be EURALO.
>
> This is a similar situation for such places in the English-speaking
> Caribbean such as Turks & Caicos Islands, British Virgin Islands, Anguilla
> and Montserrat.
>
> The historical fact is that every single conglomeration of the Caribbean
> Islands with Latin America has been difficult, principally from differences
> in language and the tendency for those of the same cultural affinity to
> favour those you feel share yours. ECLAC, the OAS and PAHO are pieces of
> evidence.
>
> The major contradistinctions in this view are Fidel and Hugo (May he RIP).
>
> I also know that the Caribbean has historically seen itself as a distinct
> Caribbean culture and not Latin. It is not controversial then that the
> sentiments in the Cayman Islands and all the others are emphatically
> pan-Caribbean as well. However, in the context of ICANN At-Large, we are
> LACRALO.
>
> From all of the consultations with the community, there was very little
> sentiment for a growth in the number of regions. The overwhelming
> consensus view was that ICANN must follow its own head for defining its
> regions. However, there was overwhelming support for structures that
> recognized the possibility that disparate geographic units around the world
> may find common cause with each other, despite separation in distance or,
> proximity to each other. So, for example, meta-structures like Special
> Interest Groups (SIG) were considered as useful in this regard; an example
> is a SIG of Small Island Developing States (SIDS).
>
> The WG also recognized the need to address the chafing and discomfort of
> units placed in geographic regions they find ill-suited to their
> affiliations and needs. Due consideration and embrace of ICANN's bottom-up
> policy development process allowed the conclusion that individual
> geographic units must be allowed a one time opportunity to choose the
> region they would caucus with on execution of a well-defined and
> transparent process.
>
> The overwhelming Caribbean sentiment is for a distinct region. Same too
> for the Arab states. Some believe the APRALO is way to big and thusly,
> unrepresentative. But sentiments are largely against adding regions so
> consensus was not possible here. Some Central Asian republics would wish to
> caucus with EURALO instead of APRALO. Absent the possibility for making
> new regions, the report gave a good overlay of what might happen if some
> countries with sentiments to move regions are accommodated. I will not
> repeat them here but the working materials are available for research.
>
> The information on slides presented at the several community briefings and
> seminars over the 2+ years of the WG's life also did a good job of
> highlighting - and dramatising - these possibilities. So, for example,
> they show the Cayman Islands as moving from EURALO to LACRALO. Or, NARALO.
> Or, following the precedent of the RIR boundaries, Barbados, Jamaica, St
> Kitts & Nevis, Bahamas etc moving to NARALO.
>
> I believe this section was well documented and presented and the staff
> support provided by Robert Hogarth was superlative overall but simply
> splendid here. He's absolutely the best for this kind of work from two
> pre-eminent skills; he listens well and is great at seeing how interests
> intersect. Armed with this understanding, he's done a really good job of
> crafting appropriate compromise language in the report.
>
> -Carlton
>
>
> ==============================
> Carlton A Samuels
> Mobile: 876-818-1799
> *Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround*
> =============================
>
>
> 2014/1/5 Alejandro Pisanty <apisanty en gmail.com>
>
>> Hola,
>>
>> me sumo a las posiciones de Aída y Alberto en lo fundamental.
>>
>> En cuanto a los cambios de un país de una región a otra, no debemos perder
>> de vista el principio "multistakeholder"; cuando se instituyan los
>> procesos, deberán ser parecidos a los de una redelegación de ccTLD.
>>
>> Sí creo pertinente pedir precisiones a Carlton acerca de los efectos
>> previstos para los cambios de región, en particular para Latinoamérica y
>> el
>> Caribe, con algunos ejemplos concretos. Le pediría describir especialmente
>> dos casos: 1. el paso de países que actualmente están en LACRALO a otra
>> región existente actualmente, y viceversa; 2. cambios en el caso de la
>> creación de nuevas regiones. Esto además dará transparencia a su posición.
>>
>> Aprovecho para enviar a todos/as un excelente año en 2014.
>>
>> Saludos cordiales.
>>
>> Alejandro Pisanty
>>
>>
>> 2014/1/5 Aida Noblia <aidanoblia en gmail.com>
>>
>> > Estimados Carlton, Alberto y todos:
>> >
>> > Estoy de acuerdo con el informe. Entiendo que como dice Carlton el
>> informe
>> > refleja las recomendaciones que se propusieron.
>> > Creo que se manejan criterios razonables como el de la ampliación del
>> plazo
>> > de 3 a 5 años; también con un margen razonable de flexibilidad,
>> buscando no
>> > generar distorsiones en el sistema general.
>> > Contempla la autodeterminación al admitir que se puedan realizar las
>> > solicitudes en base a criterios de libertad y soberanía pero también
>> > articular en cada caso con las posiciones de los países involucrados y
>> > también teniendo en cuenta las referencias geográficas.
>> > Por la naturaleza del documento no puede resolver cada caso concreto,
>> pero
>> > da pautas para su solución teniendo en cuenta las solicitudes y las
>> > necesidades prioritarias de mantener un sistema global razonablemente
>> > estable y confiable..
>> >
>> > Saludos a todos
>> >
>> >
>> > El 5 de enero de 2014, 20:44, Alberto Soto <asoto en ibero-americano.org
>> > >escribió:
>> >
>> > > Estimado Carlton, hoy intenté dejar un comentario en la wiki, pero
>> quizás
>> > > por
>> > > razones de comunicaciones no logré que el editor abriera el espacio
>> para
>> > mi
>> > > comentario.
>> > >
>> > > Quería decir que estaba de acuerdo con Cheryl, quien a su vez estaba
>> de
>> > > acuerdo
>> > > con opiniones anteriores, respecto de que es necesario considerar los
>> > > casos de
>> > > límites fronterizos, tal como estaban planteando dos casos entre
>> Europa y
>> > > Asia.
>> > > Pero creo que también debe haber algún tipo de esclarecimiento de qué
>> > casos
>> > > pueden aceptarse en la reasignación de zonas geográficas. Los
>> planteados
>> > > están
>> > > muy claros, y pese a ser de Asia, es casi natural que sean
>> considerados
>> > > dentro de
>> > > Europa, por las razones expuestas. Pero son fronterizos.
>> > > Y si tenemos algún pedido no fronterizo (quizás antojadizo...) para
>> una
>> > > reasignación de zona, por ejemplo entre LACRALO y AFRALO?
>> > > Por ahora parecería que deben tenerse en cuenta los casos fronterizos.
>> > > Habrá
>> > > algunos casos particulares más, que no desvirtúen la aplicación de la
>> ISO
>> > > 3166??
>> > > Que no se llegue a que un Gobierno local esté de acuerdo con el
>> pedido, y
>> > > luego
>> > > aún despúes de eso, haya que decir que no?
>> > > Saludos cordiales
>> > >
>> > > Alberto Soto
>> > >
>> > > On Sun 05/01/14 19:08 , carlton.samuels en gmail.com sent:
>> > > > [[--Translated text (en -> es)--]]
>> > > >
>> > > > Asunto: At-Large Solicitud de Escrito Comunidad ¡Opina -
>> > Recomendaciones
>> > > > del Grupo de Trabajo sobre Regiones Geográficas
>> > > > De: carlton.samuels en gmail.com
>> > > >
>> > > > El Domingo, 05 de enero 2014 a las 7:00 am,
>> > > euro-discuss-request en atlarge-lists.icann.org> escribió:
>> > > >
>> > > > > At-Large Request For Written Community Feedback - Geographic
>> > > > > Regions Working Group Recommendations Workspace
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Cheryl Langdon Orr y yo representamos a la At-Large en este CCWG.
>> Les
>> > > > puedo decir
>> > > > que hemos trabajado juntos para asegurar los puntos de vista de
>> ALAC se
>> > > > articularon antes de la
>> > > > WG.
>> > > >
>> > > > Y estamos convencidos de que el informe final refleja la
>> optimización
>> > > > expectativas de la ALAC como nosotros los concebimos.
>> > > >
>> > > > -Carlton
>> > > >
>> > > > ==============================
>> > > > Carlton Un Samuels
>> > > > Móvil: 876-818-1799
>> > > > * Estrategia, Planificación, Gobierno, Evaluación y Turnaround *
>> > > > =============================
>> > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > >
>> > > > [[--Original text (en)
>> > > > http://mm.icann.org/transbot_archive/f3b9c3e777.html [1]
>> > > > --]]
>> > > >
>> > > > _______________________________________________
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>> > > >
>> > > > http://www.lacralo.org [3]
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Links:
>> > > > ------
>> > > > [1]
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>> http://tcgis.ibero-americano.org/parse.php?redirect=http://mm.icann.org/tra
>> > > > nsbot_archive/f3b9c3e777.html[2]
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>> http://tcgis.ibero-americano.org/parse.php?redirect=https://atlarge-lists.i
>> > > > cann.org/mailman/listinfo/lac-discuss-es[3]<http://cann.org/mailman/listinfo/lac-discuss-es%5B3%5D>
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>> http://tcgis.ibero-americano.org/parse.php?redirect=http://www.lacralo.org
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
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>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Aida Noblia
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>> Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
>> Facultad de Química UNAM
>> Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
>> +52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD
>> +525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475
>> Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
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>
>
--
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Dr. Alejandro Pisanty
Facultad de Química UNAM
Av. Universidad 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
+52-1-5541444475 FROM ABROAD
+525541444475 DESDE MÉXICO SMS +525541444475
Blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
Unete al grupo UNAM en LinkedIn,
http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/4A106C0C8614
Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty
---->> Unete a ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
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