<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">Hi Christopher,</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:#0b5394"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">As Tijani said, I think everyone had their eye on what happened with .amazon when crafting this approach. However, I agree with your PoV and in fact believe that the utterly bogus "community" case for the .amazon TLD actually bolsters your case.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:#0b5394"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">Having said that, I've personally developed a severe case of "TLD ennui". WHO CARES how it all rolls out (from a public interest PoV) until it comes time to hunt down abuse.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:#0b5394"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">Past experience has shown that TLDs are an utterly miserable and inefficient way to bring a community together, especially in light of all the great alternatives that exist. One could easily make the case that Reddit alone can serve community-building and public accountability better than any registry. Since from the start TLDs are pay-to-play affairs they must -- even the community ones -- contribute to inequity of access to an extent not shared by other platforms. At-Large's experience with new TLDs, even supposedly-noble ones, indicate that they are without exception driven by some combination of vanity and greed.<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:#0b5394"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">I'm very disappointed that neither ALAC nor anyone else in the ICANN bubble -- not the GAC nor the civil society rump of the GNSO -- tried to make even a feeble public-interest case against a new round. Back when I was more-deeply involved in ALAC I tried to muster support for the case against any more TLD delegations until the consequences of the last round could be properly (and independently) analyzed. The effort failed miserably, and led to my pulling away. Everyone treats a new round as a simply inevitable, whether or not anyone outside the domain cartel really wants it. Whenever I hear the term "subpro" I have to smile to myself because I read that as an abbreviation for "less-than-professional", which indeed I believe to be the case for that group when it comes to consideration of public interest.<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:#0b5394"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">The inevitable march to new rounds, whether they are needed or not, offers a stark reminder of the utter isolation of ICANN's bubble (including ALAC) from the outside world. The intervention of the California AG on .ORG should have been a wake up call to this isolation, but it appears to have blown over. So it's back to business as usual ... until the next time the AG steps in. Jonathan was right that the AG intervention in .ORG was a dangerous precedent, but ... dangerous to who?</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:#0b5394"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:#0b5394">We now know that there are limits to the world's tolerance of ICANN's perversion of multi-stakeholderism. How soon until the next time these limits are tested?<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:#0b5394"><br></div><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div style="text-align:center"><div style="text-align:left">Evan Leibovitch, <span style="font-size:12.8px">Toronto Canada</span></div><div style="text-align:left"><span style="font-size:12.8px">@evanleibovitch / </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">@el56</span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, 9 Jul 2020 at 04:47, Tijani BEN JEMAA <<a href="mailto:tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn">tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
<div style="font-family:Arial;font-size:14px">
<p><span style="color:rgb(0,0,128)">Hi Alan,<br>
<br>
So, that's it: you want us to ask the addition of the geo-name nature of the string applied for as a criterion for the CPE to decide whether the application is Community one or not.<br>
<br>
In my opinion, it's absolutely irrelevent. Any geo-name could be applied for by a commercial entity, a government or a community. The fact that it is a geo-name shouldn't give more credit to the applicat even if it is a community. Any application is not more community one when it is for the geo-name string.<br>
<br>
Tijani<br>
<br>
</span><br>
Alan Greenberg <<a href="mailto:alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca" target="_blank">alan.greenberg@mcgill.ca</a>> a écrit :</p>
<blockquote style="border-left:2px solid blue;margin-left:2px;padding-left:12px" type="cite">
<p>Many geoname TLDs delegated in the last round were in fact community applications (although I don't know if any went through the CPE since that only happens if they are contested.<br>
<br>
The question here is that IF you are applying for a geoname, and IF you are applying as a community TLD, then should you get extra points under the CPE because it is a geoname (that is, it improves your chances of satisfying the CPE and thus winning over some other applicant.<br>
<br>
I am not sure we have a strong case for getting this approved, nor am I sure it is even worth the effort to try, but I see it as a good thing if we could.<br>
<br>
Alan<br>
<br>
<br>
At 2020-07-08 11:50 AM, Tijani BEN JEMAA wrote:<br></p>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p><font color="#002E7A">Dear Jonathan and all,</font><br>
<br>
<font color="#002E7A">Following up on our discussion today during the CPWG call about the geo-names, I would like to explain why I don’t think that geo-names should be incorporated into the CPWG evaluation.<br>
In fact, the CPE role is to evaluate whether the application is a community application or not (this is what Alan explained and what I agreed on). So how it might be incorporated? as a criterion to decide if the application is a community application? Shall we request that if the application is for a geo-name string, the CPE should consider it as a community application?</font><br>
The CPE evaluates if the applicant represents a community and if the application serves that community whatever the string applied for is (geo-name, language name, culture name, etc.).<br>
<br>
Tijani<br>
<br></p>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p>Le 8 juil. 2020 à 07:34, ICANN At-Large Staff <<a href="mailto:staff@atlarge.icann.org" target="_blank">staff@atlarge.icann.org</a> > a écrit :<br>
<br>
<b><i>***If you require a dial out or need to state an apology, please contact At-Large staff at <a href="mailto:staff@atlarge.icann.org" target="_blank">staff@atlarge.icann.org</a> with your preferred number***</i></b><br>
<br>
<br>
Dear All,<br>
<br>
The next <b>At-Large</b> <b>Consolidated Policy Working Group (CPWG) Call</b> is scheduled for <b><u>Wednesday, 08 July 2020 at 13:00 UTC</u> for 90 mins.</b><br>
<br>
For other times: <a href="https://tinyurl.com/y9ghlcz3" target="_blank">https://tinyurl.com/y9ghlcz3</a><br>
<br>
The agenda and call details can be found at: <a href="https://community.icann.org/x/XYRIC" target="_blank">https://community.icann.org/x/XYRIC</a><br>
<br>
<b>Zoom Room: <a href="https://icann.zoom.us/j/97147867051?pwd=NWswK1duaUtHclBxaksyRC8wekxCQT09" target="_blank">https://icann.zoom.us/j/97147867051?pwd=NWswK1duaUtHclBxaksyRC8wekxCQT09</a> / Passcode: 2345cpwg**<br>
</b><br>
<br>
<b>Real time transcription (RTT) available at <i>(subject to availability)</i>:</b> <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.streamtext.net_player-3Fevent-3DICANN-2520-255bstreamtext.net-255d&d=DwMFAw&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=ds9md1zoepmwqw2nfk-Vs9ssxn1I3jPs97ekKkctEkM&m=3swqZGyi6FKCwbtdXsS00KG30nSf_mvmyNeQfXOhtnE&s=Lv8slVV_rkW85WWduFmCXZqG6gKKvj2Dqn_0ObROKVs&e=" target="_blank">https://www.streamtext.net/player?event=ICANN [streamtext.net] [streamtext.net]</a><br>
<br>
ADIGO Conference Bridge:<br>
EN: 1638<br>
ES: 1738<br>
FR: 1838<br>
<br>
Toll-free access number (US and Canada): 800 550 6865<br>
<br>
Other toll-free numbers: <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.adigo.com_icann&d=DwMFAw&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=8_WhWIPqsLT6TmF1Zmyci866vcPSFO4VShFqESGe_5iHWGlBLwwwehFBfjrsjWv9&m=v_dW7H6jSlA9nOi38W8-O0NNugHRJaIXFir99n2INTw&s=2UDiAMNbva1Qtvc7Gxe4uYEmKjLJ0Ue93B3VR6GVJPw&e=" target="_blank"><b>https://www.adigo.com/icann [adigo.com]</b></a><br>
<br>
At-Large Consolidated Policy Working Group (CPWG) Wiki Space: <a href="https://community.icann.org/x/jYDpB" target="_blank"><b>https://community.icann.org/x/jYDpB</b></a><br>
<br>
If you require a dial-out please contact At-Large staff at: <a href="mailto:staff@atlarge.icann.org" target="_blank"><b>staff@atlarge.icann.org</b></a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Thank you.<br>
Kind regards,<br>
<br>
At-Large Staff<br>
<br>
ICANN Policy Staff in support of the At-Large Community<br>
Website: <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__atlarge.icann.org_&d=DwMFbw&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=ds9md1zoepmwqw2nfk-Vs9ssxn1I3jPs97ekKkctEkM&m=aD5IHW82ib60gM4_5F5DNkT_NsLdtJUGtBDmTkRfPFo&s=93X6eo5QBNEA4dghH6ByIbJdqCYsQp0fnY8sc7Vwwe0&e=" target="_blank">atlarge.icann.org [atlarge.icann.org]</a><br>
Facebook: <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.facebook.com_icannatlarge&d=DwMFbw&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=ds9md1zoepmwqw2nfk-Vs9ssxn1I3jPs97ekKkctEkM&m=aD5IHW82ib60gM4_5F5DNkT_NsLdtJUGtBDmTkRfPFo&s=VNZ6ZSmeW2apxVI2RcrRby4-v06-vT5xD0df7SPovEg&e=" target="_blank">facebook.com/icann [facebook.com]</a> <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.facebook.com_icannatlarge&d=DwMFbw&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=ds9md1zoepmwqw2nfk-Vs9ssxn1I3jPs97ekKkctEkM&m=aD5IHW82ib60gM4_5F5DNkT_NsLdtJUGtBDmTkRfPFo&s=VNZ6ZSmeW2apxVI2RcrRby4-v06-vT5xD0df7SPovEg&e=" target="_blank">atlarge [facebook.com]</a><br>
Twitter: <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__twitter.com_ICANNAtLarge&d=DwMFbw&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=ds9md1zoepmwqw2nfk-Vs9ssxn1I3jPs97ekKkctEkM&m=aD5IHW82ib60gM4_5F5DNkT_NsLdtJUGtBDmTkRfPFo&s=6aeZ9cfKyzr-18xGZ1aYRiQLFtYoAkS5DnnZTolk3Jg&e=" target="_blank">@ [twitter.com]</a> <a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__twitter.com_ICANNAtLarge&d=DwMFbw&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=ds9md1zoepmwqw2nfk-Vs9ssxn1I3jPs97ekKkctEkM&m=aD5IHW82ib60gM4_5F5DNkT_NsLdtJUGtBDmTkRfPFo&s=6aeZ9cfKyzr-18xGZ1aYRiQLFtYoAkS5DnnZTolk3Jg&e=" target="_blank">ICANNAtLarge [twitter.com]</a><br>
<br>
<At-Large Consolidated Policy Working Group (CPWG) Call[28].ics>_______________________________________________<br>
CPWG mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:CPWG@icann.org" target="_blank">CPWG@icann.org</a><br>
<a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy ( <a href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy" target="_blank">https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy</a>) and the website Terms of Service ( <a href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos" target="_blank">https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos</a>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.</p>
</blockquote>
<br>
Tijani BEN JEMAA<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
CPWG mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:CPWG@icann.org" target="_blank">CPWG@icann.org</a><br>
<a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy ( <a href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy" target="_blank">https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy</a>) and the website Terms of Service ( <a href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos" target="_blank">https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos</a>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
<br></p>
<div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,128)">------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<strong>Tijani BENJEMAA</strong><br>
Executive Director<br>
Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (<strong>FMAI</strong>)<br>
Telephone: +216 52 385 114<br>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------</span><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
CPWG mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:CPWG@icann.org" target="_blank">CPWG@icann.org</a><br>
<a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/cpwg</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (<a href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy</a>) and the website Terms of Service (<a href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos</a>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.</blockquote></div>