<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:large">Humberto:</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:large">I'm not sure what the translation gave you but the English language version is authoritative. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:large">I started the entire thread by plaininly noting the words "Point of Order" so it could not be mistaken. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:large">I waited until the election is called - and the General Assembly is in session - because I needed a question to be asked and a debate to ensue.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:large">The question is the vote.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:large">The 7-day period is the time to debate the question.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:large">What you quoted is perfectly clear that the motion is properly placed and the presiding officer is duty bound to take the motion.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:large">That you asked for a translation of the motion is evidence that the motion is accepted.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:large">Now you come up with this Pinochet-style Rule of Order! What is wrong with you?</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:large">In the meanwhile, the presiding officer, the LACRALO Chair, is mute, maybe with malice.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:large"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif;font-size:large">-Carlton Samuels. </div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature"><br>==============================<br>Carlton A Samuels<br>Mobile: 876-818-1799<br><i><font color="#33CC00">Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround</font></i><br>=============================</div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 7:20 AM, Humberto Carrasco <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:hcarrascob@gmail.com" target="_blank">hcarrascob@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" lang="EN-US">Mr. Samuels<span>, <br>
<br>
To</span> further clarify our position, we want to explain the
nature of what
is <span>a point</span> of order.<br>
<br>
The UNGA Rules of Procedure, in particular, Article 79 of Annex
IV (a) of the
Rules of the General Assembly, gives a concept of what a point
of order:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p style="text-align:justify"><span lang="EN-US">79. The Special Committee recommends to the
General Assembly the
adoption of the following text as a description of the <span>concept</span> of a point of order [para. 229]:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="text-align:justify"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p style="text-align:justify"><b><u><span lang="EN-US">"(a)
A point
of order is basically an intervention directed to the
presiding officer,
requesting him to make use of some power inherent in his
office or <span>specifically</span>
given him under the rules of
procedure</span></u></b><span lang="EN-US">. <span>It may, for example, relate to the
manner in which the
debate is conducted, to the maintenance of order, to the
observance of the
rules of procedure or to the way in which presiding officers
exercise the
powers conferred upon them by the rules.</span> Under a point
of order, a
representative may request the presiding officer to apply <span>a certain</span> <span>rule</span>
of procedure or he may question the way in which the <span>officer</span> <span>applies</span>
the <span>rule</span>. Thus, within
the scope of the <span>rules of
procedure</span>, representatives are enabled
to direct the attention of the presiding officer to violations
or
misapplications of the rules by other representatives or by the
presiding
officer himself. <span>A point of
order has precedence
over any other matter, including procedural motions (rules 73
[114] [Rule 71
[113] of the present rules of procedure] and 79 [120] [Rule 77
[119] of the
present rules of procedure]).</span><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p style="text-align:justify"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p style="text-align:justify"><span lang="EN-US">"(b) Points of order raised under <span>rule</span>
73 [114]n involve questions necessitating a ruling by the
presiding officer,
subject to possible appeal. <b><span>They are therefore distinct from
the procedural
motions provided for in rules 76</span></b><span>
[117] [Rule 74 [116] of the present rules of procedure] to 79
[120]o which can
be decided only by a vote and on which more than one motion
may be entertained
at the same time, rule 79 [120]o laying down the precedence of
such motions.</span>
<b><u><span>They
are also distinct from requests for information or
clarification, or from
remarks relating to material arrangements (seating,
interpretation system,
temperature of the room), documents, translations, etc.,
which - while they may
have to be dealt with by the presiding officer - do not
require rulings from
him.</span> However, in established United Nations
practice, a representative
intending to submit a procedural motion or to seek
information or clarification
<span>often</span> rises to 'a
point of order' as a
means of obtaining the floor. The latter usage, which is
based on practical
grounds, should not be confused with the raising of points
of order under <span>rule</span>
73 [114]</u></b>.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" lang="EN-US">If your request is reviewed, it can be observed
that the request it is not
directed to the President ‘<i>requesting
him
to make use of some power inherent in his office or
specifically given him under
the rules of procedure</i>', but you requests ‘<i>That the general assembly demonstrate its lack of
confidence in the
LACRALO leadership and vote on this motion</i>’.</span><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" lang="EN-US"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" lang="EN-US">In simple terms,
what you say is a point of order, it's really not. It is
therefore not possible
to give such treatment.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<br>
Regards
<br><div><div class="h5">
<br>
<div>El 10/09/2015 a las 3:39, Carlton
Samuels escribió:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default">Humberto:</div>
<div class="gmail_default">With the greatest of patience,
you are wrong. Again.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default">You are advised to read motion
again then consult the Rule of Procedure closely. Rule 18
contains the authority and guidance for action.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default">The motion was timed for a
General Assembly. The question pertaining the vote and
distribution of credentials to members made it so.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default">The vote IS the question for
decision.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default">All the reasons for the motion
are concatenated; an illegal assembly, a failure of process
etc. The vote IS the question under discussion.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default">If you don't understand the
reason for not invoking Rule 8, I can explain it to you.<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default">I drafted the original Rules
of Procedure and remain the competent authority.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default">-Carlton Samuels</div>
<div class="gmail_default"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div><br>
==============================<br>
Carlton A Samuels<br>
Mobile: <a href="tel:876-818-1799" value="+18768181799" target="_blank">876-818-1799</a><br>
<i><font color="#33CC00">Strategy, Planning, Governance,
Assessment & Turnaround</font></i><br>
=============================</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 5:32 PM,
Humberto Carrasco <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:hcarrascob@gmail.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="mailto:hcarrascob@gmail.com" target="_blank">hcarrascob@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">Dear Jacqueline,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">By this email we respond to your request.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">Overall,
we estimate that we cannot suspend the election for
the following reasons:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">1. The voting process began on Thursday,
September 3, <span>2015,</span> and runs <span>until</span>
Thursday, September 10, <span>2015</span> until 23:00
hours.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">2. The motion of Mr. Samuels was
presented on Friday, September 4, 2015.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">In his email, Mr. Samuels raised a Point
of Order and <span>offered</span> a <span>motion</span>
of NO CONFIDENCE in the LACRALO leadership.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">He pointed out <span>some</span>
arguments to justify his <span>action</span> and then
he ended with:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">"Resolved:</span></p>
<p style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">That the general assembly demonstrate its
lack of confidence in the LACRALO leadership and vote
on this <span>motion</span>."</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">Thus, <span>this paragraph</span> says
nothing about any suspension.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">3. On 5 September, we informed to Mr
Samuels that we requested an official translation to
Spanish of his motion to be sent to the LACRALO's
Spanish list.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">4. Subsequently, the 7<sup>th</sup> of
September 2015 Alberto Soto informed that he had asked
for legal advice from ICANN’s legal staff regarding
this motion of censure.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">5. The RoP in Articles 8.1 and 8.2 states
the following:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">8.1 During a discussion, any delegate may
raise a point of order; such a point of order shall be
immediately decided upon by the presiding officer.</span></p>
<p style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">8.2 An appeal may be made against the
ruling of the presiding officer. Such an appeal shall
be put to the vote immediately and the presiding
officer's ruling shall <span>stand,</span> unless
overruled by a simple majority of the ALS present and
voting. <br>
<br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">These
rules are silent regarding any suspension. Neither
there has been any appeal. In any case, an appeal did
not suspend the current vote.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">6. There are articles relating to the
suspension <span>in</span> Rule 9 that provides:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">Rule 9 - Procedural Motions </span></p>
<p style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">9.1 During a discussion, any delegate
may move the suspension or adjournment of the meeting
or the adjournment or closure of the debate. </span></p>
<p style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">9.2 Such a motion shall be put to the
vote immediately. Subject to Rule 8.1, such motions
shall have precedence in the following order over all
other proposals or motions before the meeting: </span></p>
<p style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">(a) Suspension of the meeting; </span></p>
<p style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">(b) Adjournment of the meeting; </span></p>
<p style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">(c) Adjournment of the debate on the
question under discussion; </span></p>
<p style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">(d) Closure of the <span>debate</span>
on the <span>question</span> under discussion.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">7. - Finally, with regard to the
arguments and accusations of Mr. Samuels, they will be
answered once the official translation into Spanish is
sent to the LACRALO's Spanish list. <br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"><br>
Regards.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
Alberto Soto<span><font color="#888888"><br>
Humberto Carrasco</font></span>
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
<div>El 09/09/2015 a las 15:39, Jacqueline Morris
escribió:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Humberto
<div>I'm confused - there was a motion on the
table from Carlton - the motion of No
Confidence. According to the RoP, this motion
needs to be debated and voted BEFORE the vote on
ALAC rep can continue (it takes precedence).
This hasn't been done, so how can the vote on
ALAC rep be ending tomorrow?</div>
<div>Or was there a vote on the motion and I
missed it?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I am particularly concerned given the number
of procedural mistakes that seem to have
occurred recently. We don't want more issues
with this vote.<br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div>
<div>Jacqueline A. Morris</div>
<div>Technology should be like oxygen:
Ubiquitous, Necessary, Invisible and Free.
(after <span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12px;line-height:16px;word-spacing:2px"><a href="http://twitter.com/chrislehmann" target="_blank">Chris Lehmann</a> )</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2015-09-09 9:18 GMT-04:00
<span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:hcarrascob@gmail.com" target="_blank">hcarrascob@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
[[--Translated text (es -> en)--]]<br>
<br>
Subject: Re: VOTE NOTICE: 2015 VOTE FOR
REPRESENTATIVE LACRALO ALAC / 2015 VOTE FOR
REPRESENTATIVE TO THE LACRALO ALAC<br>
From: <a href="mailto:hcarrascob@gmail.com" target="_blank">hcarrascob@gmail.com</a><br>
<br>
Dear,<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Do not forget that within Voting ends
tomorrow Thursday 10<br>
September 2015 at 23:00 UTC.<br>
<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
The 04/09/2015 at 0:00, <a href="mailto:staff@atlarge.icann.org" target="_blank"></a><a href="mailto:staff@atlarge.icann.org" target="_blank">staff@atlarge.icann.org</a>
wrote:<br>
> [[--Translated text (en -> es)--]]<br>
><br>
> Asunto: VOTO ANUNCIO: 2015 VOTO PARA
LACRALO ALAC REPRESENTANTE / 2015 VOTO PARA
REPRESENTANTE DE LACRALO ANTE EL ALAC<br>
> De: <a href="mailto:staff@atlarge.icann.org" target="_blank">staff@atlarge.icann.org</a><br>
><br>
> [ES]<br>
> Queridos todos,<br>
><br>
><br>
> LACRALOs Presidencia y Secretaría
gustaría anunciar el inicio de la votación<br>
> al Representante LACRALO ALAC para el
período de dos años a partir de las<br>
> Al final de la reunión de Dublín ICANN
en octubre de 2015. Esta encuesta estará
abierta<br>
> desde jueves 03 septiembre 2015 hasta
Jueves 10 de septiembre 2015 a las 23:00 UTC.<br>
><br>
><br>
> ***<br>
> PREGUNTA: ¿A quién apoyas a convertirse
en el ALAC Representante LACRALO para<br>
> el período de dos años a partir de
finales de la reunión de la ICANN en Dublín<br>
> 10 2015? Por favor, seleccionar un
candidato de la lista de abajo (que se
enumeran<br>
> por orden alfabético del nombre de la
familia) o abstenerse:<br>
> * Harold Arcos<br>
> * Juan Manuel Rojas<br>
> * Abstenerse<br>
> ***<br>
> Información adicional se puede
encontrar en la página de elecciones Wiki:<br>
> <a href="https://community.icann.org/x/moAQAw" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://community.icann.org/x/moAQAw</a>.<br>
><br>
><br>
> ==<br>
><br>
><br>
> [ES]<br>
> Hola a todos,<br>
><br>
><br>
> El Presidente y secretario de LACRALOs
quisieran anunciar el inicio del<br>
> por voto párrafo Elegir al
Representante de LACRALO ante el ALAC
Representante<br>
> EL PERIODO DE 2 aos Empezando al final
de de la reunin de Dubln en Octubre<br>
> del 2015. La votacin estarabierta desde
el Lunes 03 de Setiembre 2015 al<br>
> Viernes 10 de Setiembre 2015 a las
23:00 UTC.<br>
><br>
><br>
> ***<br>
> PREGUNTA: A quien Elige Usted Para Ser
Representante del LACRALO ante el<br>
> ALAC POR EL PERIODO DE 2 aos Comenzando
en la reunión de la ICANN en Octubre<br>
> del 2015? Por favor ELIJA UN Candidato
de la Lista Abajo (en Orden<br>
> alfabtico) o abstngase:<br>
> * Harold Arcos<br>
> * Juan Manuel Rojas<br>
> * Abstencin<br>
> ***<br>
> Informacin Adicional Se Puede Encontrar
En La pgina WIKI:<br>
> <a href="https://community.icann.org/x/moAQAw" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://community.icann.org/x/moAQAw</a>.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Saludos,<br>
><br>
><br>
> Heidi Ullrich, Silvia Vivanco, Ariel
Liang, Gisella Gruber, Nathalie<br>
> Peregrine y Terri Agnew<br>
> El personal de ICANN política en apoyo
de ALAC<br>
> E-mail: <a href="mailto:staff@atlarge.icann.org" target="_blank">staff@atlarge.icann.org</a><br>
> Facebook: <a href="http://www.facebook.com/icann" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/icann</a>
&lt; <a href="https://www.facebook.com/icannatlarge" target="_blank">https://www.facebook.com/icannatlarge</a>><br>
> AtLarge &lt; <a href="https://www.facebook.com/icannatlarge" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"></a><a href="https://www.facebook.com/icannatlarge" target="_blank">https://www.facebook.com/icannatlarge</a>><br>
> Twitter: @ &lt; <a href="https://twitter.com/ICANNAtLarge" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"></a><a href="https://twitter.com/ICANNAtLarge" target="_blank">https://twitter.com/ICANNAtLarge</a>><br>
> &lt; <a href="https://twitter.com/ICANNAtLarge" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://twitter.com/ICANNAtLarge</a>><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
[[--Original text (es)<br>
<a href="http://mm.icann.org/transbot_archive/71b69bd4a9.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mm.icann.org/transbot_archive/71b69bd4a9.html</a><br>
--]]<br>
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