[lac-discuss-en] Outreach and Engagement SC

Ariel Liang ariel.liang at icann.org
Tue Feb 23 02:12:48 UTC 2016 

Thanks Alberto, 

Karlene has been removed from the mailing list.

Best,
Ariel 

From:  Alberto Soto <asoto at ibero-americano.org>
Date:  Monday, February 22, 2016 at 8:47 PM
To:  ICANN At-Large Staff <staff at atlarge.icann.org>
Cc:  'LACRALO list' <lac-discuss-en at atlarge-lists.icann.org>, 'Karlene
Francis' <karlenef at gmail.com>
Subject:  RE: [lac-discuss-en] Outreach and Engagement SC

Dear, please, can you  remove a mailing list to  Karlene Francis
[mailto:karlenef at gmail.com]. The ALS is  The University of West Indies     .
Thanks!
 
Kind regards
 
Alberto            
 
De: Karlene Francis [mailto:karlenef at gmail.com]
Enviado el: lunes, 22 de febrero de 2016 22:27
Para: Alberto Soto
CC: LACRALO list
Asunto: Re: [lac-discuss-en] Outreach and Engagement SC
 

Dear Alberto, 

 

I belong to UWI. Thanks in advance.

 

Sincerely,
Karlene Francis

 
> 
>  
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: <asoto at ibero-americano.org>
> Date: Thu, Feb 18, 2016 at 12:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [lac-discuss-en] Outreach and Engagement SC
> To: lac-discuss-en at atlarge-lists.icann.org
> Cc: lac-discuss-en at atlarge-lists.icann.org
> 
> 
> 
> [[--Translated text (es -> en)--]]
> 
>  Subject: Re: Outreach and Engagement SC
>  from: asoto at ibero-americano.org
> 
>  In order to complete the order Karlene, you would be so kind as to tell me to
> ALS belong?
>  Thank you.
>  Alberto Soto
> 
> 
>  Sent from my ASUS
> 
> 
>  -------- Original message --------
>  From: karlenef at gmail.com
>  Posted: Thu, February 18, 2016 8:37:55 -0300
>  To: lac-discuss-es at atlarge-lists.icann.org
>  Cc: lac-discuss-en at atlarge-lists.icann.org
>  Subject: Re: [lac-discuss-en] Outreach and Engagement SC
>>  >
>>  > [[- Translated text (es -&gt; en) -]]
>>  >
>> > Asunto: Re: Alcance y Compromiso SC
>> > De: karlenef at gmail.com
>> >
>> > Estimado Alberto,
>> >
>> >
>> > Es lamentable que todavía existen tan enorme nivel de desconfianza en
>> LACRALO. La situación es ahora insostenible. Por favor retire mi nombre de
>> todas las listas de correo. No deseo ser un miembro de este grupo.
>> >
>> >
>> > Saludos,
>> > karlene Francisco
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> >> On 17 Feb 2016, at 7:48 PM, Alan Greenberg <alan.greenberg at mcgill.ca>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Dear Alberto,
>>> >>
> 
>>> >> I will comment on the issues of the Outreach and Engagement and CROPP
>>> issues separately. Despite the two groups being chaired by the same person,
>>> they operate under different rules and processes.
>>> >>
>>> >> Subcommittee on Outreach and Engagement
>>> >>
>>> >> The Subcommittee (SC) is composed of two members named by each RALO plus
>>> any other people that chose to participate. Operationally, the SC does not
>>> distinguish between the two types of participants. The SC leadership is
>>> selected by the SC itself. See (
>>> https://community.icann.org/display/atlarge/ALAC+Subcommittee+on+Outreach+an
>>> d+Engagement ) for further details.
>>> >>
>>> >> There are 14 members from LACRALO, more than from any other region.
>>> >>
>>> >> Any work product of the SC should be a product of the entire SC, or at
>>> least those who choose to be active and participate. That certainly should
>>> include the official members selected by the region. The SC may decide to
>>> ask RALOs for input, but even if it doesn’t, it is the responsibility of
>>> the regional members to ensure that the region is involved. In a
>>> multistakeholder environment, every participant cannot get exactly what they
>>> want, but every participant should have an opportunity to be heard. If a
>>> work product is about a particular region (as it is for the CROPP
>>> strategies), that region clearly has a very important role to play. In the
>>> case of LACRALO, we go to great efforts to ensure that the SC has Spanish
>>> interpretation to ensure that your members can participate equitably.
>>> >>
>>> >> To the best of my knowledge, there has been no major complaint from
>>> within the SC that people are not being listened to.
>>> >>
>>> >> The Independence of RALOs, like most things in life, is not absolute. In
>>> many cases, an ALAC SC or WG carries out work on behalf of ALAC and
>>> At-Large. They do this with the participation of people from all regions.
>>> Generally these decisions or documents do not impact what a RALO can do, but
>>> occasionally the ALAC gives a SC explicit responsibility to take action on
>>> behalf of ALAC and At-Large even if the results do not go back to the ALAC
>>> for ratification.
>>> >>
>>> >> In the specific case of the CROPP strategy document, I am not an expert,
>>> but I do not see a wide difference between the resultant document and what I
>>> have heard is of specific interest to LACRALO. The exact words may be
>>> different, but the intent seems the same. But regardless of how I read it,
>>> IF the region has a problem, it should be dealt with within the SC and by
>>> those appointed by LACRALO to work on the SC. If there is a situation where
>>> the SC members and the Chair and Co-Chairs cannot resolve an issue, I expect
>>> it to be presented to me or the ALAC Leadership Team, ensuring that the ALT
>>> Member from the region is aware of the issue.
>>> >>
>>> >> You mention that the internal LACRALO document had more concrete details.
>>> That is quite reasonable. As I understand the situation, the plans to be
>>> submitted to GSE did not require that level of detail and implementation. As
>>> long as the two were complementary and did not conflict, there is no
>>> problem.
>>> >>
>>> >> CROPP Program
>>> >>
>>> >> Last year, the CROPP program within At-Large was carried out by the CROPP
>>> Review Team (RT) from the previous year. The current RT is composed of two
>>> people from each region, one appointed by the Members of the Finance and
>>> Budget Subcommittee, and one by the Members of the Outreach and Engagement
>>> SC.
>>> >>
>>> >> A requests for use of CROPP funds goes from the originator to the RALO
>>> and then to the CROPP RT. Exactly how the RALO approves a project is up to
>>> the RALO. I suspect that most RALOs do this with their leadership team and
>>> perhaps a few others. Once the CROPP RT is notified by RALO leadership that
>>> a request is approved by the RALO, the CROPP RT must review it. They have
>>> the duty to ensure that the request meets the regional strategy and is in
>>> all ways a good request. If they are not satisfied, they can either reject
>>> the request or refer it back to the originator or RALO for modification. My
>>> understanding is that the LACRALO trip to Haiti and the Dominican Republic
>>> was satisfactory and I do not see the need to review the process it followed
>>> at this time.
>>> >>
>>> >> For the record, Dev Anand Teelucksingh did not travel to Buenos Aires on
>>> CROPP funds. His trip was funded by GSE under a completely different
>>> program.
>>> >>
>>> >> I hope that this addresses all of your issues.
>>> >>
>>> >> Regards, Alan
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>>> >>> TRANSLATION BY SILVIA VIVANCO:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Dear Alan, I am obliged as President of LACRALO to get in touch about
>>>> this issue:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> The insistence of the Chairman of a Subcommittee of the ALAC  (Outreach
>>>> and Engagement SC ) in making decisions  which should, by regulation be
>>>> made inside of LACRALO and with full participation of its members ALSs,
>>>> compels me to do so.
>>>> >>> Repeated clarifications do not justify such a decision.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Comments from Pisanty and myself have been cited as if they were an
>>>> approval of the Plan generated in the O/E Subcommittee, which acted without
>>>> previously consulting the document which we already had prepared. Both
>>>> mine, and the opinion of Alejandro Pisanty were critical of such document.
>>>> >>> Subsequently, and despite the bad procedure, we, in display of good
>>>> will and seeking peace in our Region, accepted this plan, despite the fact
>>>> that ours had more concrete details about the countries, according to the
>>>> list that I promptly submitted, and long before this Strategic Plan.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> The main detail was that the plan  should take into account as a
>>>> priority,  those countries that had the lowest rate of Internet
>>>> penetration, as a way to start that required greater support and major
>>>> actions to coordinate with ICANN GSE.
>>>> >>> I asked for clarifications to the Chairman of the Subcommittee on our
>>>> last monthly meeting. At that meeting, he not only insisted on his mistake,
>>>> but he confirmed that  the persons forming such Subcommittee would be in
>>>> charge of the implementation of such plan and they were also analyzing the
>>>> alternatives of the CROPP Program for its implementation by of such
>>>> Subcommittee.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> In summary: first an ALS presents a project,  which shall be approved
>>>> by consensus within LACRALO and then leadership of LACRALO sends it for
>>>> approval through the CROPP program and then to GSE.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> They are assuming a power which does not correspond to them, even
>>>> though I  requested by email and at the last monthly meeting that they did
>>>> not.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> He also insisted that the Sub-Committee was formed by members of
>>>> LACRALO, erroneously understanding this validated  such actions.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> The MOU that LACRALO has signed with ICANN, gives us the independence
>>>> in decisions, which should be taken within the scope of our Region and
>>>> within our normative discussions area, not within a Sub-Committee of ALAC,
>>>> despite the fact that this is composed of members of LACRALO.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> In the links listed in the email below, you can see that a similar
>>>> program for AFRALO was approved by the members of AFRALO on September 21,
>>>> 2015; of APRALO by their leaders on July 3, 2015;  of NARALO by Glenn
>>>> McKnight 4l 4 August 2015;  of EURALO by Dev Anand Teelucksingh the 29th
>>>> September 2015;  and the LACRALO also by Dev Anand Teelucksingh on
>>>> September 15, 2015. At least for LACRALO, he has taken a role which does
>>>> not correspond to him.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> In the emails cited by  the Chair of the Subcommittee, there are
>>>> inconsistencies such as the exchange of emails for the proposal by Carlton
>>>> Samuels to go to Surinam; this was only presented by Dev Anand Teelucksingh
>>>> in the meeting which we had on the Haiti and Dominican Republic. There was
>>>> such urgency that we did not have time to submit it to LACRALO and
>>>> exceptionally we decided with Humberto at that  meeting so as to avoid
>>>> losing  our CROPP trip allocation.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> In the meeting previous to the last meeting of ICANN in Buenos Aires,
>>>> it is said that we agreed and published the names of who would travel to
>>>> such meeting.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> CROPP?s  Chair,  Dev Anand Teelucksingh, published such names, but
>>>> omitted in the list  his own name, because he travelled to Argentina with a
>>>> travel allocation of such program.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> To safeguard our decisions, our autonomy and hoping to avoid future
>>>> inconvenient, I request that  you proceed to issue the appropriate
>>>> Directive to such Subcommittee.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> At 11/01/2016 07:16 AM, Alberto Soto wrote:
>>>> >>> Estimado Alan, me veo obligado como Presidente de LACRALO a ponerme en
>>>> >>> contacto por este tema.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> La insistencia del Presidente de un Subcomité de ALAC (Alcance y
>>>> compromiso
>>>> >>> SC) en tomar decisiones que por norma deben tomarse en el interior de
>>>> >>> LACRALO y con participación de sus ALSs miembros, me obliga a ello.
>>>> >>> Las repetidas aclaraciones no justifican esa decisión.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Se ha citado comentarios de Alejando Pisanty y míos como si hubieran
>>>> sido de
>>>> >>> aprobación del Plan generado en ese subcomité sin haber consultado
>>>> >>> previamente el documento con el que ya contábamos. Tanto la opinión
de
>>>> >>> Alejandro como la mía, eran críticas de tal documento. A posteriori y
>>>> pese a
>>>> >>> ese mal procedimiento, como muestra de buena voluntad y buscando la paz
en
>>>> >>> nuestra Región, dimos como aceptado dicho Plan, pese a que el nuestro
>>>> tenía
>>>> >>> detalles más concretos sobre los países, según la lista que yo
>>>> oportunamente
>>>> >>> presentara, y mucho antes de este Plan Estratégico. El detalle
>>>> principal era
>>>> >>> que se debía tener en cuenta como prioridad, a aquellos países que
>>>> tuvieran
>>>> >>> el menor índice de penetración de Internet, como una forma de
>>>> comenzar por
>>>> >>> los que requerían mayor apoyo y mayores acciones a coordinar con GSE
de
>>>> >>> ICANN.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Pedí aclaraciones al Presidente del Subcomité en nuestra última
>>>> reunión
>>>> >>> mensual; allí no solo insistió en su error, sino que confirmó que
las
>>>> >>> personas integrante de dicho Subcomité se harían cargo de la
>>>> implementación
>>>> >>> de dicho plan, y además estaban analizado las alternativas del
>>>> programa
>>>> >>> CROPP para su implementación por parte de dicho Subcomité. Como
>>>> síntesis de
>>>> >>> este tema en particular: primero una ALS presenta un proyecto, se
>>>> aprueba
>>>> >>> por consenso en LACRALO y luego el liderazgo de LACRALO lo envía para
su
>>>> >>> aprobación al programa CROPP y de allí a GSE. Se están arrogando una
>>>> >>> atribución que no corresponde, pese a que se pidió por mail y en la
>>>> última
>>>> >>> reunión mensual  que no lo hicieran.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> También insistió en que dicho subcomité estaba conformado por
>>>> miembros de
>>>> >>> LACRALO, entendiendo erróneamente que ello convalidaba tales acciones.
>>>> >>> El MOU que LACRALO tiene firmado con ICANN, nos da la independencia en
las
>>>> >>> decisiones, las que deben tomarse dentro del ámbito de nuestra Región
>>>> y en
>>>> >>> nuestro ámbito normativo de discusiones, y no dentro de un Subcomité
de
>>>> >>> ALAC, pese a que esté integrado por miembros de LACRALO.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> En los links que están indicados en el mail de abajo, se puede ver que
el
>>>> >>> programa similar de AFRALO fue aprobado por los miembros de AFRALO el
>>>> 21 de
>>>> >>> septiembre de 2015; el de APRALO por sus líderes el 3 de julio de
>>>> 2015;  el
>>>> >>> de NARALO por Glenn McKnight 4l 4 de agosto de 2015;  el de EURALO por
Dev
>>>> >>> Anand Teelucksingh el 29de septiembre de 2015;  y el de LACRALO
>>>> también por
>>>> >>> Dev Anand Teelucksingh el 15 de septiembre de 2015. Al menos por
>>>> LACRALO, se
>>>> >>> ha tomado una atribución que no le corresponde.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> En los mail citados por el Presidente del subcomité, hay
>>>> inconsistencias
>>>> >>> tales como el intercambio de correos para la propuesta de Carlton
>>>> Samuels
>>>> >>> para ir a Surinam; esto solo fue presentado por   Dev Anand
>>>> Teelucksingh en
>>>> >>> una reunión que mantuvimos por el tema de Haití y República
>>>> Dominica. Era
>>>> >>> con tal urgencia que no tuvimos tiempo de presentarlo ante LACRALO y
>>>> >>> excepcionalmente lo definimos con Humberto en esa reunión para no
>>>> perder un
>>>> >>> viaje de CROPP. En la reunión previa al último meeting de ICANN en
>>>> Buenos
>>>> >>> Aires, se cita que concordamos y fueron publicados los nombres de
>>>> quienes
>>>> >>> viajarían a dicho meeting. El Presidente del CROPP,  Dev Anand
>>>> Teelucksingh
>>>> >>> publicó dichos nombres, pero omitió en la lista  el suyo propio, dado
que
>>>> >>> viajó con una vacante de dicho programa.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Por el resguardo de nuestras decisiones, nuestra autonomía, y
>>>> esperando
>>>> >>> evitar futuros inconvenientes, solicito tengas a bien dar la directiva
>>>> >>> correspondiente a ese Subcomité.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Saludos cordiales
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Alberto Soto
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> lac-discuss-en mailing list
>>> >> lac-discuss-en at atlarge-lists.icann.org
>>> >> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/lac-discuss-en
>> >
>> >
>> >
> 
> 
> 
> [[--Original text (es)
> http://mm.icann.org/transbot_archive/7a451a2de8.html
> --]]
> 
> 
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