[lac-discuss-en] VOTE NOTICE: 2015 VOTE FOR REPRESENTATIVE LACRALO ALAC / 2015 VOTE FOR REPRESENTATIVE TO THE LACRALO ALAC
Carlton Samuels
carlton.samuels at gmail.com
Thu Sep 10 14:11:43 UTC 2015
Humberto:
I'm not sure what the translation gave you but the English language version
is authoritative.
I started the entire thread by plaininly noting the words "Point of Order"
so it could not be mistaken.
I waited until the election is called - and the General Assembly is in
session - because I needed a question to be asked and a debate to ensue.
The question is the vote.
The 7-day period is the time to debate the question.
What you quoted is perfectly clear that the motion is properly placed and
the presiding officer is duty bound to take the motion.
That you asked for a translation of the motion is evidence that the motion
is accepted.
Now you come up with this Pinochet-style Rule of Order! What is wrong with
you?
In the meanwhile, the presiding officer, the LACRALO Chair, is mute, maybe
with malice.
-Carlton Samuels.
==============================
Carlton A Samuels
Mobile: 876-818-1799
*Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround*
=============================
On Thu, Sep 10, 2015 at 7:20 AM, Humberto Carrasco <hcarrascob at gmail.com>
wrote:
> Mr. Samuels,
>
> To further clarify our position, we want to explain the nature of what is a
> point of order.
>
> The UNGA Rules of Procedure, in particular, Article 79 of Annex IV (a) of
> the Rules of the General Assembly, gives a concept of what a point of order:
>
>
>
> 79. The Special Committee recommends to the General Assembly the adoption
> of the following text as a description of the concept of a point of order
> [para. 229]:
>
>
>
> *"(a) A point of order is basically an intervention directed to the
> presiding officer, requesting him to make use of some power inherent in his
> office or specifically given him under the rules of procedure*. It may,
> for example, relate to the manner in which the debate is conducted, to the
> maintenance of order, to the observance of the rules of procedure or to the
> way in which presiding officers exercise the powers conferred upon them by
> the rules. Under a point of order, a representative may request the
> presiding officer to apply a certain rule of procedure or he may question
> the way in which the officer applies the rule. Thus, within the scope of
> the rules of procedure, representatives are enabled to direct the
> attention of the presiding officer to violations or misapplications of the
> rules by other representatives or by the presiding officer himself. A
> point of order has precedence over any other matter, including procedural
> motions (rules 73 [114] [Rule 71 [113] of the present rules of procedure]
> and 79 [120] [Rule 77 [119] of the present rules of procedure]).
>
>
>
> "(b) Points of order raised under rule 73 [114]n involve questions
> necessitating a ruling by the presiding officer, subject to possible
> appeal. *They are therefore distinct from the procedural motions provided
> for in rules 76* [117] [Rule 74 [116] of the present rules of procedure]
> to 79 [120]o which can be decided only by a vote and on which more than one
> motion may be entertained at the same time, rule 79 [120]o laying down the
> precedence of such motions. *They are also distinct from requests for
> information or clarification, or from remarks relating to material
> arrangements (seating, interpretation system, temperature of the room),
> documents, translations, etc., which - while they may have to be dealt with
> by the presiding officer - do not require rulings from him. However, in
> established United Nations practice, a representative intending to submit a
> procedural motion or to seek information or clarification often rises to 'a
> point of order' as a means of obtaining the floor. The latter usage, which
> is based on practical grounds, should not be confused with the raising of
> points of order under rule 73 [114]*.
>
> If your request is reviewed, it can be observed that the request it is not
> directed to the President ‘*requesting him to make use of some power
> inherent in his office or specifically given him under the rules of
> procedure*', but you requests ‘*That the general assembly demonstrate its
> lack of confidence in the LACRALO leadership and vote on this motion*’.
>
> In simple terms, what you say is a point of order, it's really not. It is
> therefore not possible to give such treatment.
>
> Regards
>
> El 10/09/2015 a las 3:39, Carlton Samuels escribió:
>
> Humberto:
> With the greatest of patience, you are wrong. Again.
>
> You are advised to read motion again then consult the Rule of Procedure
> closely. Rule 18 contains the authority and guidance for action.
>
> The motion was timed for a General Assembly. The question pertaining the
> vote and distribution of credentials to members made it so.
>
> The vote IS the question for decision.
>
> All the reasons for the motion are concatenated; an illegal assembly, a
> failure of process etc. The vote IS the question under discussion.
>
> If you don't understand the reason for not invoking Rule 8, I can explain
> it to you.
>
> I drafted the original Rules of Procedure and remain the competent
> authority.
>
> -Carlton Samuels
>
>
>
>
> ==============================
> Carlton A Samuels
> Mobile: 876-818-1799
> *Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround*
> =============================
>
> On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 5:32 PM, Humberto Carrasco < <hcarrascob at gmail.com>
> hcarrascob at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear Jacqueline,
>>
>>
>>
>> By this email we respond to your request.
>>
>>
>>
>> Overall, we estimate that we cannot suspend the election for the
>> following reasons:
>>
>>
>>
>> 1. The voting process began on Thursday, September 3, 2015, and runs
>> until Thursday, September 10, 2015 until 23:00 hours.
>>
>>
>>
>> 2. The motion of Mr. Samuels was presented on Friday, September 4, 2015.
>>
>>
>>
>> In his email, Mr. Samuels raised a Point of Order and offered a motion
>> of NO CONFIDENCE in the LACRALO leadership.
>>
>> He pointed out some arguments to justify his action and then he ended
>> with:
>>
>>
>>
>> "Resolved:
>>
>>
>>
>> That the general assembly demonstrate its lack of confidence in the
>> LACRALO leadership and vote on this motion."
>>
>>
>>
>> Thus, this paragraph says nothing about any suspension.
>>
>>
>> 3. On 5 September, we informed to Mr Samuels that we requested an
>> official translation to Spanish of his motion to be sent to the LACRALO's
>> Spanish list.
>>
>> 4. Subsequently, the 7th of September 2015 Alberto Soto informed that he
>> had asked for legal advice from ICANN’s legal staff regarding this motion
>> of censure.
>>
>> 5. The RoP in Articles 8.1 and 8.2 states the following:
>>
>>
>>
>> 8.1 During a discussion, any delegate may raise a point of order; such a
>> point of order shall be immediately decided upon by the presiding officer.
>>
>>
>>
>> 8.2 An appeal may be made against the ruling of the presiding officer.
>> Such an appeal shall be put to the vote immediately and the presiding
>> officer's ruling shall stand, unless overruled by a simple majority of
>> the ALS present and voting.
>>
>> These rules are silent regarding any suspension. Neither there has been
>> any appeal. In any case, an appeal did not suspend the current vote.
>>
>> 6. There are articles relating to the suspension in Rule 9 that provides:
>>
>>
>>
>> Rule 9 - Procedural Motions
>>
>> 9.1 During a discussion, any delegate may move the suspension or
>> adjournment of the meeting or the adjournment or closure of the debate.
>>
>> 9.2 Such a motion shall be put to the vote immediately. Subject to Rule
>> 8.1, such motions shall have precedence in the following order over all
>> other proposals or motions before the meeting:
>>
>> (a) Suspension of the meeting;
>>
>> (b) Adjournment of the meeting;
>>
>> (c) Adjournment of the debate on the question under discussion;
>>
>> (d) Closure of the debate on the question under discussion.
>>
>>
>>
>> 7. - Finally, with regard to the arguments and accusations of Mr.
>> Samuels, they will be answered once the official translation into Spanish
>> is sent to the LACRALO's Spanish list.
>>
>>
>> Regards.
>>
>>
>> Alberto Soto
>> Humberto Carrasco
>>
>>
>> El 09/09/2015 a las 15:39, Jacqueline Morris escribió:
>>
>> Hi Humberto
>> I'm confused - there was a motion on the table from Carlton - the motion
>> of No Confidence. According to the RoP, this motion needs to be debated and
>> voted BEFORE the vote on ALAC rep can continue (it takes precedence). This
>> hasn't been done, so how can the vote on ALAC rep be ending tomorrow?
>> Or was there a vote on the motion and I missed it?
>>
>> I am particularly concerned given the number of procedural mistakes that
>> seem to have occurred recently. We don't want more issues with this vote.
>>
>> Jacqueline A. Morris
>> Technology should be like oxygen: Ubiquitous, Necessary, Invisible and
>> Free. (after Chris Lehmann <http://twitter.com/chrislehmann> )
>>
>> 2015-09-09 9:18 GMT-04:00 <hcarrascob at gmail.com>:
>>
>>>
>>> [[--Translated text (es -> en)--]]
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: VOTE NOTICE: 2015 VOTE FOR REPRESENTATIVE LACRALO ALAC /
>>> 2015 VOTE FOR REPRESENTATIVE TO THE LACRALO ALAC
>>> From: hcarrascob at gmail.com
>>>
>>> Dear,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Do not forget that within Voting ends tomorrow Thursday 10
>>> September 2015 at 23:00 UTC.
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The 04/09/2015 at 0:00, <staff at atlarge.icann.org>
>>> staff at atlarge.icann.org wrote:
>>> > [[--Translated text (en -> es)--]]
>>> >
>>> > Asunto: VOTO ANUNCIO: 2015 VOTO PARA LACRALO ALAC REPRESENTANTE /
>>> 2015 VOTO PARA REPRESENTANTE DE LACRALO ANTE EL ALAC
>>> > De: staff at atlarge.icann.org
>>> >
>>> > [ES]
>>> > Queridos todos,
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > LACRALOs Presidencia y Secretaría gustaría anunciar el inicio de la
>>> votación
>>> > al Representante LACRALO ALAC para el período de dos años a partir
>>> de las
>>> > Al final de la reunión de Dublín ICANN en octubre de 2015. Esta
>>> encuesta estará abierta
>>> > desde jueves 03 septiembre 2015 hasta Jueves 10 de septiembre 2015 a
>>> las 23:00 UTC.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ***
>>> > PREGUNTA: ¿A quién apoyas a convertirse en el ALAC Representante
>>> LACRALO para
>>> > el período de dos años a partir de finales de la reunión de la ICANN
>>> en Dublín
>>> > 10 2015? Por favor, seleccionar un candidato de la lista de abajo
>>> (que se enumeran
>>> > por orden alfabético del nombre de la familia) o abstenerse:
>>> > * Harold Arcos
>>> > * Juan Manuel Rojas
>>> > * Abstenerse
>>> > ***
>>> > Información adicional se puede encontrar en la página de elecciones
>>> Wiki:
>>> > https://community.icann.org/x/moAQAw.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ==
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > [ES]
>>> > Hola a todos,
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > El Presidente y secretario de LACRALOs quisieran anunciar el inicio
>>> del
>>> > por voto párrafo Elegir al Representante de LACRALO ante el ALAC
>>> Representante
>>> > EL PERIODO DE 2 aos Empezando al final de de la reunin de Dubln en
>>> Octubre
>>> > del 2015. La votacin estarabierta desde el Lunes 03 de Setiembre
>>> 2015 al
>>> > Viernes 10 de Setiembre 2015 a las 23:00 UTC.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ***
>>> > PREGUNTA: A quien Elige Usted Para Ser Representante del LACRALO
>>> ante el
>>> > ALAC POR EL PERIODO DE 2 aos Comenzando en la reunión de la ICANN en
>>> Octubre
>>> > del 2015? Por favor ELIJA UN Candidato de la Lista Abajo (en Orden
>>> > alfabtico) o abstngase:
>>> > * Harold Arcos
>>> > * Juan Manuel Rojas
>>> > * Abstencin
>>> > ***
>>> > Informacin Adicional Se Puede Encontrar En La pgina WIKI:
>>> > https://community.icann.org/x/moAQAw.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Saludos,
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Heidi Ullrich, Silvia Vivanco, Ariel Liang, Gisella Gruber, Nathalie
>>> > Peregrine y Terri Agnew
>>> > El personal de ICANN política en apoyo de ALAC
>>> > E-mail: staff at atlarge.icann.org
>>> > Facebook: www.facebook.com/icann <
>>> https://www.facebook.com/icannatlarge>
>>> > AtLarge < <https://www.facebook.com/icannatlarge>
>>> https://www.facebook.com/icannatlarge>
>>> > Twitter: @ < <https://twitter.com/ICANNAtLarge>
>>> https://twitter.com/ICANNAtLarge>
>>> > < https://twitter.com/ICANNAtLarge>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [[--Original text (es)
>>> http://mm.icann.org/transbot_archive/71b69bd4a9.html
>>> --]]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> lac-discuss-en mailing list
>>> lac-discuss-en at atlarge-lists.icann.org
>>> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/lac-discuss-en
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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