[lac-discuss-en] Election Results Comments

Wed May 2 22:35:20 UTC 2012

Dear Carlton: with all due respect, I want to share my vision with you.

There is a saying in English: 'Where ignorance is bliss, it is folly to be
wise'.

There is another one: "the law is too important to leave to lawyers".

I do not know their equivalencies in Spanish and a word by word translation
would be inadequate.  Our LACRALO machine translation will be crude, at
best. Nevertheless, I shall not attempt one here.

We have always known that there is a reservoir of ignorance of LACRALO
rules. More to point, ignorance of how they apply is really acute. The sad
fact is this ignorance is demonstrated by some of our colleagues who, by
virtue of their profession, one would least expect.

 I do not like “saying”, because is better speak or write directly, so in
this way people can understand better what you are trying to say, even more
if many of them do not speak English.

I see your words as a disparagement of others or for some profession (there
is a common mistake in people and

that is to put forward a profession by the person), and that is not the
vision that has to have a leader of the region, because we are all pairs,
some people has more experience than others, some work more than others,
some of them find it more difficult than others, and the Key is not to
criticize, the key is to build cooperative and collaborative dialogues.

We have to ask ourselves “What we did to be at this point?” What we did to
fix it? What we plan to overcome the difficulties?

Without any fear of contradiction I now make this declaration: Any  LACRALO
election in San Jose would have been illegal for lack of proper notice.

In my part of the world, notice is a pre-requisite for democratic
elections. This is because they are processes, not just one event. Take any
junta of the kind we witness time and again in the LAC region and I can
demonstrate that even they know this.

 Your part of the world is my part of the world too (we have only one
world). And without fear I say that I share with you the meaning of
democratic.

I know for certain that our democratically-elected friend, Hugo, knows
this. [To the chagrin of his opponents! :-)]

Notice typically has three elements; time, duration and content. A
violation of any element condemns the notice.

The attempt to call an immediate LACRALO election at San Jose by invoking
the full UNGA Rules as authority [and allowed under LACRALO rules!] would
have also been in violation.

Not only for the violation of the notice period. But the process by which
the voting event would have been taken on the agenda would not have saved
the day.  That would have had one effect, to add the matter to the agenda.
 A notice period plus candidates are still necessary for the election.

In addition to all that, the member on whose behalf the attempt to hasten
the election is being executed  VOLUNTARILY withdrew HIS element of notice
from the Agenda.

In other words, the member, maybe unwittingly, fouled his own pool.  Those
of us opposed to the barefaced violation of the rules would not have to do
anything more.

 Dear Carlton I would like to ask you to mention manes in your lines.
Because your lines bring more confusion than clarification. We should speak
clear, because this is not the right way to refer to someone. This is not
the communication that I want for the region. A person could say anything,
with name and surname, and if there is with respect there is nothing to say.

So now, let's speak to the concerns for poor use of ICANN funds raised in
this thread.  Here is a phrase that works here: 'La historia me absolvera'.

 I do not share your opinion about the poor use of IANN funds. For me the
all events were successful, but is only my personal view. And I remember
your word in Skype chat of ALAC saying “after the fiasco” talking about the
GA, be careful because we create what we say and you are part of that.  I
read only negative word in your last email, I read many, but few with
initiatives.

Is not only important to know how to do something, but more important is
know how to teach. To this I invite you all Carlos Aguirre, Carlton, Vanda,
Alejandro, the region need your support, your experience.

Most of you would probably not know but ever since 2006, there has been an
enduring nucleus of opposition for ICANN travel support to the At-Large
attending ICANN meetings.  This opposition is largely from North America,
among persons associated with the placeholder ALAC the new RALO included
structure replaced.

The most corrosive criticism alleged that At-Large participants who
received travel support for ICANN meetings were really tourists first.
Their involvement in the At-Large agenda at the meetings was secondary.

This criticism was leveled at the At-Large in general but to my mind,
sharply directed at members from LAC and Africa.

Several recorded observations placed members from LACRALO at the centre of
these criticisms.  To be brutally frank, one of our members was the THE
poster boy for this abuse.

 I share your opinion regarding tourist and is one of my most important
concern, and we have to work together to find the way to overcome this.

Again, say names are the right way to express, and you give others the
opportunity to replicate.

I have, in good nature, endured severe personal criticism because I opposed
any attempt to publicly censure those deemed guilty.  Some of my colleagues
interpreted my opposition as protecting a certain LACRALO member - who
shall remain nameless here.  More thoughtful others recognized it for what
it was; defense of a principle rather than personalities.

All that aside, this member has enjoyed my support for other At-large
duties.  Yes, you guessed right.  This member actually solicited my support
for other positions.  And yes, because of the larger strategic interests, I
gave it.

By now, some of you might have also guessed my loathing for hypocrisy and
all its works. One is supposed to celebrate conversion, as it were, to 'the
one true faith'.  At least, that is the Christian tradition.

Count me as a reliable skeptic. Because to be frank, this latest conversion
we witness is really over the top.  It is nothing more than a rancid
example of enlightened self-interest.

That is the word.

I do not want you take this personally, because I do not support Jose
Ovidio´s words. My commitment is with the region.

My finally message is “be careful on what we say, because words are power”,
begin to think as a group, that is the key for the growth of the region.

Dear Carlton, I really appreciate your lines, because sharing our vision is
the way to create the LACRALO that we all want.

My admiration for your work

Kind Regards

José Arce.-

2012/5/2 Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels at gmail.com>

> Bro Carlos:
> You are right on fact as well as strategy.  I cannot disagree with you
> here.
>
> With the greatest respect and affection.
>
> - Carlton
>
> ==============================
> Carlton A Samuels
> Mobile: 876-818-1799
> *Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround*
> =============================
>
>
> On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 3:57 PM, carlos dionisio aguirre <
> carlosaguirre62 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >  My Dear Bro. We have coincidence in almost 90% of your words. I know
> what
> > do you want to say, I feel and live like you in many things, And you know
> > that my position is the true that I believe,  more than some strategies
> or
> > diferences in the political positions.
> > But when is needed to be clear, sometimes we must be rude. I think is
> this
> > in where our positions dont find coincidence. Your words were very
> strong,
> > but without names, and I felt that we needed names also in your words. We
> > need to start to say names. Because in a contrary case all in the region
> > are involved, and many of them being not guilty for that.  It my humble
> > thought.
> >
> > My permanent enormous affectionate
> >
> > Carlos Dionisio Aguirre
> > NCA GNSO Council - ICANN
> > former ALAC member by LACRALO
> > Abogado - Especialista en Derecho de los Negocios
> > Sarmiento 71 - 4to. 18 Cordoba - Argentina -
> > *54-351-424-2123 / 423-5423
> > http://ar.ageiadensi.org
> >
> >
> > > From: carlton.samuels at gmail.com
> > > Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 13:12:21 -0500
> > > To: lac-discuss-en at atlarge-lists.icann.org
> > > Subject: Re: [lac-discuss-en] Election Results Comments
> >
> > >
> > > There is a saying in English: 'Where ignorance is bliss, it is folly to
> > be
> > > wise'.
> > >
> > > There is another one: "the law is too important to leave to lawyers".
> > >
> > > I do not know their equivalencies in Spanish and a word by word
> > translation
> > > would be inadequate. Our LACRALO machine translation will be crude, at
> > > best. Nevertheless, I shall not attempt one here.
> > >
> > > We have always know that there is a reservoir of ignorance of LACRALO
> > > rules. More to point, ignorance of how they apply is really acute. The
> > sad
> > > fact is this ignorance is demonstrated by some of our colleagues who,
> by
> > > virtue of their profession, one would least expect.
> > >
> > > Without any fear of contradiction I now make this declaration: Any
> > LACRALO
> > > election in San Jose would have been illegal for lack of proper notice.
> > >
> > > In my part of the world, notice is a pre-requisite for democratic
> > > elections. This is because they are processes, not just one event. Take
> > any
> > > junta of the kind we witness time and again in the LAC region and I can
> > > demonstrate that even they know this.
> > >
> > > I know for certain that our democratically-elected friend, Hugo, knows
> > > this. [To the chagrin of his opponents! :-)]
> > >
> > > Notice typically has three elements; time, duration and content. A
> > > violation of any element condemns the notice.
> > >
> > > The attempt to call an immediate LACRALO election at San Jose by
> invoking
> > > the full UNGA Rules as authority [and allowed under LACRALO rules!]
> would
> > > have also been in violation.
> > >
> > > Not only for the violation of the notice period. But the process by
> which
> > > the voting event would have been taken on the agenda would not have
> saved
> > > the day. That would have had one effect, to add the matter to the
> agenda.
> > > A notice period plus candidates are still necessary for the election.
> > >
> > > In addition to all that, the member on whose behalf the attempt to
> hasten
> > > the election is being executed VOLUNTARILY withdrew HIS element of
> notice
> > > from the Agenda.
> > >
> > > In other words, the member, maybe unwittingly, fouled his own pool.
> Those
> > > of us opposed to the barefaced violation of the rules would not have to
> > do
> > > anything more.
> > >
> > > So now, let's speak to the concerns for poor use of ICANN funds raised
> in
> > > this thread. Here is a phrase that works here: 'La historia me
> > absolvera'.
> > >
> > > Most of you would probably not know but ever since 2006, there has been
> > an
> > > enduring nucleus of opposition for ICANN travel support to the At-Large
> > > attending ICANN meetings. This opposition is largely from North
> America,
> > > among persons associated with the placeholder ALAC the new RALO
> included
> > > structure replaced.
> > >
> > > The most corrosive criticism alleged that At-Large participants who
> > > received travel support for ICANN meetings were really tourists first.
> > > Their involvement in the At-Large agenda at the meetings was secondary.
> > >
> > > This criticism was leveled at the At-Large in general but to my mind,
> > > sharply directed at members from LAC and Africa.
> > >
> > > Several recorded observations placed members from LACRALO at the centre
> > of
> > > these criticisms. To be brutally frank, one of our members was the THE
> > > poster boy for this abuse.
> > >
> > > I have, in good nature, endured severe personal criticism because I
> > opposed
> > > any attempt to publicly censure those deemed guilty. Some of my
> > colleagues
> > > interpreted my opposition as protecting a certain LACRALO member - who
> > > shall remain nameless here. More thoughtful others recognized it for
> what
> > > it was; defense of a principle rather than personalities.
> > >
> > > All that aside, this member has enjoyed my support for other At-large
> > > duties. Yes, you guessed right. This member actually solicited my
> support
> > > for other positions. And yes, because of the larger strategic
> interests,
> > I
> > > gave it.
> > >
> > > By now, some of you might have also guessed my loathing for hypocrisy
> and
> > > all its works. One is supposed to celebrate conversion, as it were, to
> > 'the
> > > one true faith'. At least, that is the Christian tradition.
> > >
> > > Count me as a reliable skeptic. Because to be frank, this latest
> > conversion
> > > we witness is really over the top. It is nothing more than a rancid
> > > example of enlightened self-interest.
> > >
> > > That is the word.
> > >
> > > - Carlton Samuels
> > >
> > > ==============================
> > > Carlton A Samuels
> > > Mobile: 876-818-1799
> > > *Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround*
> >
> > > =============================
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 10:18 PM, <cveraq at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > [[--Translated text (es -> en)--]]
> > > >
> > > > Subject: Re: =? Windows-1252? Q? Resultados_de_la_Elecci = F3n_de_?
> ==
> > > > Windows-1252? Q? = 09L = 09a_Secretar = EDa_de_LACRALO_t =
> > E9rmino_de_un_?
> > > > == Windows-1252? Q? A = F1o_ = 09de_04_de_ = 09mayo_2012 ? =
> > > > From: cveraq at gmail.com
> > > >
> > > > Incredible .. And those are the people demanding commitment and
> demand
> > ..
> > > > # Prohibidoolvidar
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > While we are not transparent, conscious of our responsibilities and
> > > > understand that not everything revolves around our personal
> interests,
> > the
> > > > region will continue dependent.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Today we strongly believe in a good team without conditions.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Carlos Vera
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: &quot;Alberto Soto&quot; <asoto at ibero-americano.org>
> > > > Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 00:11:41
> > > > To: <salgueiro.jo at gmail.com> ; <cveraq at gmail.com> ; 'LACRALO
> Spanish'
> > <
> > > > lac-discuss-es at atlarge-lists.icann.org>
> > > > Cc: <lac-discuss-en at atlarge-lists.icann.org>
> > > > Subject: RE: [lac-discuss-en] Results of the choice of l
> > > > trmino LACRALO to secrete a year of 04
> > > > May 2012
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I agree with the view of the precious time lost in Costa Rica, in
> > addition
> > > > ICANN payment of money, just for personal interests that harm us
> > > > all. A general assembly can not be lost completely only two
> > > > people present. ICANN is a lot of money and OUR, and long
> > > > staff of each of us invested.
> > > > Best Regards
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Alberto Soto
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: lac-discuss-es-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org
> > > > [Mailto: lac-discuss-es-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf
> Of
> > > > Jose
> > > > Ovidio Salgueiro A.
> > > > Posted on: Tuesday, May 1, 2012 11:09 pm
> > > > To: cveraq at gmail.com; LACRALO Espaol
> > > > CC: lac-discuss-en at atlarge-lists.icann.org
> > > > Subject: Re: [lac-discuss-en] Results of the election of the secrete
> of
> > > > LACRALO trmino of one year from May 4, 2012
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Congratulations to Sylvia by Josy strong result.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > This leads me to think that the ridiculous we did in the Assembly in
> > San
> > > > Josfue unnecessary since this result was the same as hubiramos
> > > > all obtained.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The Caribbean was not able or San Josni now to put a candidate with
> the
> > > > capacity for a votacin important.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I hope that now if you can work as expected in our organization
> > > > and without the narrow interests that previously demonstrated
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > JosSalgueiro
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Sent from my BlackBerry Movistar
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > lac-discuss-en mailing list
> > > lac-discuss-en at atlarge-lists.icann.org
> > > https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/lac-discuss-en
> >
> _______________________________________________
> lac-discuss-en mailing list
> lac-discuss-en at atlarge-lists.icann.org
> https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/lac-discuss-en
>

-- 
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+ 54 9 351  6788920