[lac-discuss-en] HEAD OF CATTLE: Matrix FODA

apisan at servidor.unam.mx apisan at servidor.unam.mx
Tue Feb 15 15:23:30 UTC 2011


[[--Translated text (es -> en)--]]


Subject: Re: HEAD OF CATTLE: Matrix FODA
From: apisan at servidor.unam.mx

Carlos, Fátima, all, 
 
on weaknesses and threats with the example of the lack of transparency: 
 
The distrust of others is the threat, the external factor, that is not  
under our control. 
 
The lack of transparency is the weakness, the own factor, that is low  
our control. 
 
The threat has greater desired effect while greater it is the weakness. 
 
In the usual exercises of strategic planning, they are defined different  
assemblies of strategies for each pair of variables FODA. 
 
Thus, strategies are made to apply the strengths in  
advantage of opportunities and is very different from which becomes  
in order to treat the combinations threaten-weakness. 
 
In the FO aggressive and one has lain down for ahead. 
 
In cases AD one looks for to handle by a side the threat, for which  
strategies are to evade the risk, to transfer it, to mitigate it, to remedy his  
effects, etc. 
 
And on the other hand one looks for to reduce the weakness. In this case,  
transparency must increase, by principle and strategy. Nothingbetter in  
strategic planning that when agrees incentives as in this case. 
 
Alexander Pisanty 
 
 
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 
      Dr Alexander Pisanty 
UNAM, Av. University 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico 
 
Tels. +52-(1)-55-5105-6044, +52-(1)-55-5418-3732 
 
* My blog/My blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com 
* LinkedIn procases out: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty 
* Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty 
* Unete to group UNAM in LinkedIn, http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/Â106C0C8614 
 
* They see ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org.mx, ISOC http://www.isoc.org 
* It participates in ICANN, http://www.icann.org 
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 
 
 
On Tue, 15 Feb 2011, Fatima Cambronero wrote: 
> Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 11:54:20 -0300 > From: Fatima Cambronero <fatimacambronero at gmail.com> > To: cveraq at gmail.com > Cc: lac-discuss-es at atlarge-lists.icann.org > Subject: Re: [ lac-discuss-is ] HEAD OF CATTLE: Matrix FODA >  > Andrés, all, > > we were yesterday working enough time in this subject with Sylvia, and soon > added Sergio to us. > I am in agreement with vos whereupon the contributions of Alexander were very > interesting and also was including in the tables that we were arming with > Sylvia. > > For those who we do not have the exercise in this type of matrices FODA, us > was, in some contributions that were arising, complicated toidentify if > we located it as "weaknesses" or "threats", since a same point, > depending on the form in which is faced it (or is written upit), can be > located as much in one as in another table (if I am mistaken, please, > corríjanme). > Like for example, happens in the point that indicates Alexander like"weakness" > on "the lack!
  of transparency mechanisms and surrender of accounts in and > between the organizations is another weakness that threatensthe effectiveness and > viability of model AT-Large ", where vos you raise if it could not be seen > as a "threat". > With the arguments clear that Alexander gave, to me personally I hadleft > that well was located like "weakness", but now which I read yours, > also seems to me that the distrust generated by that situation in > AT-Large, can be seen as "it threatens". > This is only my personal opinion, that me surje after reading them to you. > > These planteos, on in what place of the table to locate them, we had them with > Sylvia in several points that arose. > seems to Me interesting that we have these debates between us, because us > allows to know and to know how us where to focus us to continue working, in addition > of being able to take advantage of the positive which we have like THIN and to remove its fruits to him. > > Still we have time to!
  follow including ideas that are arising. > Sylvia is translat!
 ing the 
contributions that already we have, to theEnglish. So > we continue thinking:) > > warm Greetings, > > Fatima Cambronero > > > > > > the 15 of February of 2011 09:41, <cveraq at gmail.com> it wrote: > > &gt; Thanks Sergio: > &gt; > &gt; the estrategico: Without a doubt it is the existence of opportunities to occupy > &gt; positions of the type staff, positions of estrategica influence, positions > &gt; directors, etc. > &gt; > &gt; the operative thing: The processes to promote the maximum participation in > &gt; aids or mechanisms of designation must stay, having to improve > &gt; substantially the procedures that include profiles, orientacion, > &gt; is present at and participation, representaciòn, better options for new > &gt; you lead, less or no re-election, less or no multiple representation > &gt; in same or the different organisms, etc. > &gt; > &gt; podria to normar q Well nobody can hold two regional directive positions > &gt; or international for example and q nobody!
  can be reelectoto the same one > &gt; organism by but of two periods in the same one or different positions. > &gt; > &gt; gobernanza characterizes by the horizontalidad and alternabilidad but in > &gt; this means to some colleagues, surely by its meritos, we have seen them > &gt; too much and in too many positions or representations reducing opportunities > &gt; to the rest, that therefore jamas podran to have opportunity to acquire > &gt; knowledge and experience practices the q leaves us in I circulate vicious > &gt; permanent. It is to say podra not to hold positions by q does not have experience but > &gt; podra not to have experience by q does not have option tohold positions... > &gt; > &gt; > &gt; Message sent from my terminal BlackBerry&reg; de Porta > &gt; > &gt; -----Original Message > &gt; From: presidency Argentina Internaut <presidencia at internauta.org.ar> > &gt; Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 09:27:13 > &gt; To: <cveraq at gmail.com> > &gt; Reply-To: to presidencia at inte!
 rnauta.org.ar > &gt; Cc: <lac-discuss-es at atlarge-lists.icann.o!
 rg> > &g
t; Subject: Re: [ lac-discuss-is ] HEAD OF CATTLE: Matrix FODA > &gt; > &gt; Carlos Thanks for your contributions! we are raising yours (and doing > &gt; translation of the same one since there is to send it in ingles) and we needed > &gt; that you help us with "opportunity" you will be able to reformulate that item so that > &gt; can be shaped your idea? since it does not stay to us absolutely clear as > &gt; to put it and we want to be faithful to your glance, you would put it in opportunities > &gt; strategic or in operational opportunities? We waited for your quick one > &gt; answer. > &gt; warm Greetings > &gt; > &gt; * Sergio Saline I carry President Internauta Argentina Association > &gt; Argentina de Usuarios de Internet <http://www.internauta.org.ar>FLUI- > &gt; Latin American Federation of Users of Internet > &gt; <http://www.fuilain.org>LACRALO - ALAC Member facebook:salinasporto > &gt; twitter:sergiosalinas MSN/MSN YAHOO/Talk: salinasporto... > &gt; Skype:interna!
 utaargentina Mobi:+54 9 223 5 215819 * > &gt; > &gt; > &gt; the 15/02/2011 08:37 a.m., cveraq at gmail.com wrote: > &gt; &gt; Considero a weakness the multiple personal representations in > &gt; diverse spaces of decision. Many colleagues assume diverse positions > &gt; directors, numerous and interminable re-elections and positions in > &gt; organizations with reaches that podrian to be incompatible and even > &gt; overlapped in its actions, > &gt; &gt; > &gt; &gt; the opportunity is the great capacity that we must to regulate > &gt; ocupacion of positions directivosa, to avoid to maximo the re-elections for q > &gt; mayoria can become familiar with practices it of Internetgovernment and > &gt; its institutions and with the real exercise of decision positions. > &gt; &gt; > &gt; &gt; a strength the capacity of the members institutional and personally > &gt; to assume any roll. I differ strongly of those who request experience > &gt; and requirements to assume positions that s!
 ingle make andarbitrary his discretionary > &gt; ocupacion. Th!
 e pertin
ent thing is q any q assumes a position receives one > &gt; induction on same and a transference of that precedio andof > &gt; staff. > &gt; &gt; > &gt; &gt; an important threat comes from the organizations and people q have > &gt; monopolized positions and that tried to put "requirements" to make difficult > &gt; access to spaces of decision on the part of third then that mined > &gt; institucionalidad, debilitated it and ended up making unusable it. > &gt; &gt; > &gt; &gt; Carlos Side > &gt; &gt; > &gt; &gt; > &gt; &gt; Message sent from my terminal BlackBerry&reg; de Porta > &gt; &gt; > &gt; &gt; -----Original Message > &gt; &gt; From: presidency Argentina Internaut<presidencia at internauta.org.ar> > &gt; &gt; Sender: lac-discuss-it is -bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org > &gt; &gt; Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2011 08:04:17 > &gt; &gt; To:<lac-discuss-es at atlarge-lists.icann.org> > &gt; &gt; Reply-To: to presidencia at internauta.org.ar > &gt; &gt; Subject: Re: [ lac-discuss-is ] HEAD OF CA!
 TTLE: Matrix FODA > &gt; &gt; > &gt; &gt; Andres, the contributed thing by Alexander has been incorporated in the day of yesterday > &gt; &gt; at night to matrix FODA, next to the contributions of other companions > &gt; &gt; of the region which there are been working in it, I suggest who > &gt; &gt; wishes to make their aggregates do it in these days, since it was given > &gt; &gt; quickly the first one conforms we were committed to do it. > &gt; &gt; warm Greetings > &gt; &gt; > &gt; &gt; * Sergio Saline I carry President Internauta Argentina Association > &gt; &gt; Argentina de Usuarios de Internet<http://www.internauta.org.ar>FLUI- > &gt; &gt; Latin American Federation of Users of Internet > &gt; &gt; <http://www.fuilain.org>LACRALO - ALAC Member facebook:salinasporto > &gt; &gt; twitter:sergiosalinas MSN/MSN YAHOO/Talk: salinasporto... > &gt; &gt; Skype:internautaargentina Mobi:+54 9 223 5 215819 * > &gt; &gt; > &gt; &gt; > &gt; &gt; the 15/02/2011 07:36 a.m., Andrés !
 Piazza wrote: > &gt; &gt; &gt; Considered: > &gt; &gt; &gt; > !
 &gt; &gt
; &gt; Without damage of which I will do my contributions inindividual and coverall knowing > &gt; that > &gt; &gt; &gt; this will be debated Tomorrow (Latin American Teleconferencing), Happened > &gt; Tomorrow > &gt; &gt; &gt; (Teleconferencing of the Caribbean) and in the Monthly one, I want to do echo to me of > &gt; &gt; &gt; outstanding by Alexander. > &gt; &gt; &gt; > &gt; &gt; &gt; Is a subject of great importance, in my opinion, the one of Matrix FODA. > &gt; &gt; &gt; > &gt; &gt; &gt; > &gt; &gt; &gt; >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 1. In the listings of weaknesses of the three tables that appear in >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; document, we must include the lack of sufficient competitions and >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; updated. >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sufficient: technical, legal, social and political knowledge of all > &gt; >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; subjects that are in discussion and projected for discussion in ICANN. >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; recent Examples with which LACRALO can i!
 llustrate this subject: > &gt; names of >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; dominion of a single character in IDNs, policy for IPv6, policy stops > &gt; >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; "pool" remaining of IPv4 directions by return of the RIRs. >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; > &gt; &gt; &gt; Updated: it speaks by itself. > &gt; &gt; &gt; > &gt; &gt; &gt; Evidently I must agree, not only in the concepts, butin > &gt; ciudadosa > &gt; &gt; &gt; forms to express them, that had Alexander. > &gt; &gt; &gt; > &gt; &gt; &gt; But also would add in the strengths the advance in Capacity Building > &gt; that > &gt; &gt; &gt; has had in this short period of existence of the Thinones. Watching > &gt; glass > &gt; &gt; &gt; average plenty. > &gt; &gt; &gt; > &gt; &gt; &gt; > &gt; &gt; &gt; >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 2. Another weakness that must be including, and that represents a risk > &gt; elevated >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to the viability of model AT-Large, is the excessive concentration of > &gt; >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Thin and AL!
 S in organization subjects and procedure, including > &gt; acc!
 ess >&gt
;&gt;&gt;&gt; a >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; bottoms for trips and meetings. >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; In the measurement in which this concentration in one damage is perceived >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; discussion focused to the subjects nouns, that produce contributions > &gt; to >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; development of important and opportune policies, the critics of the type > &gt; of >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; "is only dedicated to fight to each other" or "they only take care to obtain > &gt; resources >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; for himself "will debilitate the model. >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; > &gt; &gt; &gt; I cannot make another thing that to agree. > &gt; &gt; &gt; > &gt; &gt; &gt; >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 3. The lack of transparency mechanisms and surrender ofaccounts in > &gt; and >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; between >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the organizations is another weakness that threatens the effectiveness and >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; viability of model AT-Large. >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Tuve opportunity !
 to speak on this in the inaugural speech of >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; "showcase" of Cartagena and I return to do it: in the measurement in which there is more >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; money in game, for example with new gTLDs, new opportunities of > &gt; to use >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ccTLDs as if they were generic, and other changes in the market of > &gt; names >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; of >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; dominion, the temptation to apply the capacities of a ALS or everything > &gt; one >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; THIN in support of a model or policy that favors to a single supplier > &gt; or >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; group of suppliers grows. >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Is indispensable that the bottoms and inclinations or obligations of > &gt; ALS >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; is known and susceptible open analysis. >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the opposite will take to an increasing distrust that as well > &gt; will produce >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; incentives to disqualify or to diminish the contributions of the AT >!
  &gt; Large. >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Aclaro in cas!
 e there 
are doubts that when saying here "weakness", use the term > &gt; like >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; in the exercises of strategic planning, like a characteristic >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; commits >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (the external ones are "threats") of the organization who makes difficult to reach > &gt; >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; objective. >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; and use "lack" not like an absolute one, but like half (or more, or less) >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; empty >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; of the glass. That is to say, I do not say that "lack of capacity" means that > &gt; we have >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; zero capacity, but that the capacity that lacks is a weakness, by >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; example. >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; > &gt; &gt; &gt; Could this being a "threat" but that a "weakness" Alexander? Or it has > &gt; something > &gt; &gt; &gt; that I did not understand well. > &gt; &gt; &gt; > &gt; &gt; &gt; I am going away to stop in a conceptual aspect, on the preparation of > &gt; &gt; &gt; First FODA. > &gt; &gt; &gt!
 ; > &gt; &gt; &gt; "Threat" is an external or possible factor whereas "Weakness" > &gt; &gt; &gt; constitutes a real and internal element. The bottoms of the ALS are something, > &gt; if > &gt; &gt; &gt; well internal - not of LACRALO but each organization who potentially > &gt; can > &gt; &gt; &gt; to attempt against our credibility. > &gt; &gt; &gt; > &gt; &gt; &gt; Greetings, > &gt; &gt; &gt; > &gt; &gt; &gt; Andrés > &gt; &gt; &gt; > &gt; &gt; &gt; >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Carlos Aguirre: I hope you see reflected here in objective way some > &gt; of >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the subjects that you and I in this list days ago discussed, and to > &gt; that >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; talked about Andrés Piazza in that same interchange. Hopefully we pruned > &gt; to advance in >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; this important process. >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sergio Salinas and Sylvia Herlein Leite: who directs this debate and is >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; in charge to lead and to transmit its results to the in!
 stances >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; following? We must support them and !
 it will 
be easier in the measurement in that > &gt; his >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; conduction is manifest. I see so far shows the one of Sylvia. >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Warm greetings. >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Alexander Pisanty >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > &gt;. . >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Dr Alexander Pisanty >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; UNAM, Av. University 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Tels. +52-(1)-55-5105-6044, +52-(1)-55-5418-3732 >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; * My blog/My blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; * LinkedIn procases out: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; * Twitter: http://twitter.com/apisanty >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; * Unete to group UNAM in LinkedIn, >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/Â106C0C8614 >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; * Sees ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org.mx, ISOC http://www.isoc.org >&gt;&gt;!
 &gt;&gt; * Participates in ICANN, http://www.icann.org. . . . . . . . . . > &gt;. >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;. >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;. . . . . . . . . . . . . . >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On the Sat, 12 Feb 2011 sylvia at prontocl.com.br wrote: >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Date: The Sat, 12 Feb 2011 09:01:18 -0200 >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; From: sylvia at prontocl.com.br >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; To: "[ iso-8859-1 ] ' LACRALO Español'" >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; <lac-discuss-es at atlarge-lists.icann.org> >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Subject: [ lac-discuss-is ] First FODA >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Dear LACRALO companions; >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the next Thursday in our monthly teleconferencing we will be >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; presenting/displaying the commentaries on the matrix FODA that is being >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; armed by the work group C. The work group has asked for a >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the 5 THIN its contributions and commentaries. >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&g!
 t; Vean in: >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; < > &g!
 t; https
://community.icann.org/download/attachments/7635421/LACRALO_inpu >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; t_into >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; _ WT_C_SWOT_analyses_SP.pdf &gt; >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; > &gt; https://community.icann.org/download/attachments/7635421/LACRALO_input >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; _ into _ >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; WT_C_SWOT_analyses_SP.pdf >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; the version in Spanish on same and envíenme its commentaries even >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; 17 Thursday 17 to UTC so that it can incorporate them. >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Greetings to all, >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sylvia >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; _________________________________________________________ >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Sylvia Herlein Leite >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Secretary FLUI - www.fuilatin.org >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; LACRALO-ALAC Member >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Latin America& Regional Caribbean AT-Large Organization >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; sylvia at internautabrasil.org >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; >&gt;&gt;&g!
 t;&gt;&gt; >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; _______________________________________________ >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; lac-discuss-is mailing list >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; lac-discuss-es at atlarge-lists.icann.org >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/lac-discuss-is >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; http://www.lacralo.org >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; _______________________________________________ >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; lac-discuss-is mailing list >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; lac-discuss-es at atlarge-lists.icann.org >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/lac-discuss-is >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; http://www.lacralo.org >&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; > &gt; &gt; &gt; > &gt; &gt; &gt; > &gt; &gt; _______________________________________________ > &gt; &gt; lac-discuss-is mailing list > &gt; &gt; lac-discuss-es at atlarge-lists.icann.org > &gt; &!
 gt; https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/lac-discu!
 ss-is > 
&gt; &gt; > &gt; &gt; http://www.lacralo.org > &gt; > &gt; _______________________________________________ > &gt; lac-discuss-is mailing list > &gt; lac-discuss-es at atlarge-lists.icann.org > &gt; https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/lac-discuss-is > &gt; > &gt; http://www.lacralo.org > &gt; > > > > --  > * Fatima Cambronero * > Lawyer-Argentina > President Ageia Densi > http://ar.ageiadensi.org/ > _______________________________________________ > lac-discuss-is mailing list > lac-discuss-es at atlarge-lists.icann.org > https://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/lac-discuss-is > > http://www.lacralo.org > 
 
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