[lac-discuss-en] Fwd: Derek Smythe and Vittorio Bertolo in the fraud of the Internet and =?x-unknown?Q?laintersecci=F3n = with ICANN
Carlton Samuels
carlton.samuels at uwimona.edu.jm
Thu Apr 9 18:04:50 CDT 2009
Dear Alexander:
Yes, indeed, the struggle is to find that balance that will address the
paradoxes you identify without too much dislocation to the majority of
stakeholders.
I not sure of your position on this issue but I do not believe it is neither
extraordinary or out of scope for ICANN to establish mechanisms that audit
whois data for compliance and to demand fixes, if this becomes necessary.
In the end it is about the veracity of names and numbers. And ICANN is best
postioned to action in its institutional interest.
Warmest regards,
Carlton Samuels
On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 10:20 AM, <apisan at servidor.unam.mx> wrote:
>
> [[--Translated text (es -> en)--]]
>
>
> Subject: Re: Fwd: Derek Smythe and Vittorio Bertolo in the fraud of the
> Internet and =?x-unknown?Q?laintersecci=F3n = with ICANN
> From: apisan at servidor.unam.mx
>
> Carlton,
>
> thousand thanks for your shipment.
>
> I believe that there are points that become excellent thanks to your
> description and
> they are to debate in community "AT-LARGE" and other communities of ICANN.
>
> The discussion between Vittorio Bertola and Derek Smythe shows a species of
> paradox:
>
> On the one hand, for the aims of defense of the consumer, as it can be
> to avoid and to persecute frauds, one calls to each other:
>
> 1. that the data of "WHOIS" are highly precise and comprobables;
> 2. that ICANN counts on strict mechanisms of monitoring and with
> possibility of imposing strong penalties to those who (registrars, on
> everything) does not fulfill them;
> 3. that ICANN has a fast, independent answer of or
> jurisdictions in where it had to persecute the crime and to involve a
> the legal authorities, for the persecution of frauds.
>
> On the other hand, in the atmosphere of defense of civil rights, one calls
> to each other
> that the "exact WHOIS" is a mechanism that exposes too much to
> registrantes to diverse violations of its rights.
>
> And a third point of view, complementary, considers that it is in
> opposition to
> the ICANN mission to create necessary the operative structuresfor
> cumplimmiento of points 2 and 3 of above.
>
> Where it wants to be LACRALO in the coordinates defined by these three
> points of view? That one is the substantial debate that we would have to be
> maintaining.
>
> Warm greetings,
>
> Alexander Pisanty
>
>
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
> Dr Alexander Pisanty
> UNAM, Av. University 3000, 04510 Mexico DF Mexico
>
> Tels. +52-(1)-55-5105-6044, +52-(1)-55-5418-3732
>
> * My blog/My blog: http://pisanty.blogspot.com
> * LinkedIn procases out: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty
> * Unete to group UNAM in LinkedIn,
> http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/Â106C0C8614<http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/%C3%82106C0C8614>
>
> ---->> Unete to ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org
> It participates in ICANN, http://www.icann.org
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>
>
> On Thu, 9 Apr 2009 carlton.samuels at uwimona.edu.jm wrote:
> > Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2009 07:52:12 -0700 > From:
> carlton.samuels at uwimona.edu.jm > Reply-To:
> lac-discuss-es at atlarge-lists.icann.org > To:
> lac-discuss-es at atlarge-lists.icann.org > Subject: Re: [ lac-discuss-is ]
> Fwd: Derek Smythe and Vittorio Bertolo in > fraud of the Internet and
> =?x-unknown?Q?laintersecci=F3n = with ICANN > > > [ [ - - Translated text
> (in - > is)--]] > > > Subject: Re: Fwd: Derek Smythe and Vittorio Bertolo
> in the fraud of the Internet and =?x-unknown?Q?laintersecci=F3n = with ICANN
> > Of: carlton.samuels at uwimona.edu.jm > > Dear Alexander: > Agradece much
> by these pensativas interrogations. > > the key question is data of the
> WHOIS here. The questions inthe discussion are 1) if > ICANN must have of
> the care to make fulfill a standard of the minimum for that data 2) > if
> ICANN must have of the care to make fulfill a standard ofquality for that
> the data > the 3) mechanisms by which ICANN can exercise their duties of the
> application. > > I am in the file to us!
>
> e #1 and # 2. And although I create that > the mechanism for the
> application will be desafiador to define and to bring in > the operation,
> the time has come so that this is done. > > In view of ICANN and data of the
> WHOIS, I carry out the vision that the application begins > with a RAA more
> robust than indicates the fundamental requirements explicitly > for a valid
> file of data of the WHOIS with a minimum assembly of elements like a >
> contractual obligation. I believe that he would be desirableto establish in
> all > contracts river down that to promote a file of data falsodelWHOIS is a
> violation > of the contract and the arguments for the abrogation of
> thatcontract. > > is no doubt that ICANN now does not have nor cochooses >
> infrastructure to make fulfill and to insist on the integrity of its own
> contracts. > This weakness really increases the challenges in defining a
> frame stops > application of the quality of the data of the WHOIS in the
> context to allow of the data > the!
>
> old-fashioned criminal activities have fraud taste. For if th!
> e data o
> f the WHOIS of the quality are a > entrance of necessary information to the
> investigation, the halting and the conviction of criminals, > the question
> becomes which is to have minimum of the guardians of the data of the WHOIS?
> > and is forced to attend investigations and criminal processings > and of
> what ways? > > the conversation of Derek/Vittorio shows a small but
> important convergence inside > two sequences of the thought - preoccupations
> of the isolation against the application of law - and really > encapsulates
> the discussions in En-Grande course and to another one the ICANN parteen >
> electoral districts around the RAA improvements. > > good Respect, > Carlton
> Samuels > > In Wed, 8 of April of 2009 in 9:41 P.M., <
> apisan at servidor.unam.mx> it wrote: > > > [ [ - - translated text (is
> - >)--]] of in > > > subject: Re: Fwd: Derek Smythe and Vittorio
> Bertolo in the fraud of > Internet and =?x-unknown?Q?laintersecci=F3n =
> with ICANN > of: apisan at servid!
>
> or.unam.mx > > Carlton, > > > why is looked like you
> interchange of the east interesantepara our list? > we would gain much if
> you exposed your point of view in the matter > > > for porqué you
> think east interchange intersting our list? We would gain > much if you
> extended your point of view in him >> Saludos/Yours, > >
> Alexander Pisanty > > >. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
> . . . . > Dr Alexander Pisanty > UNAM, Av University. 3000, 04510
> Mexico DF Mexico > > Tels. +52-(1)-55-5105-6044, +52-(1)-55-5418-3732
> > > * my blog of blog/My: http://pisanty.blogspot.com > * you
> promarry of LinkedIn towards outside: http://www.linkedin.com/in/pisanty> * Unete to group UNAM inLinkedIn, >
> http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/Â106C0C8614<http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/%C3%82106C0C8614>
> <http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/22285/%C3%82106C0C8614> > >
> ---->> Unete to ISOC Mexico, http://www.isoc.org > participates
> in ICANN, http://www.icann.org &g!
>
> t;. . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . > >!
> > in
> Wed, the 8 of April 2009 carlton.samuels at uwimona.edu.jm wrote: > >
> date: Wed, The 8 Of April 2009 17:24:48 Of -0700 > Of: >
> carlton.samuels at uwimona.edu.jm > Contestar-A: > lac-discuss-is! > @
> atlarge-lists.icann.org > a: >
> lac-discuss-es at atlarge-lists.icann.org > subject: Fwd: Derek Smythe and
> > Vittorio Bertolo in the fraud of the Internet and > laintersección [
> x-not known ] > with ICANN > > > [ [ - - text translated (in -
> > is)--]] > > > subject: > Fwd: Derek Smythe and Vittorio
> Bertolo in the fraud of the Internet and > laintersección with ICANN >
> of: carlton.samuels at uwimona.edu.jm > > here > under very
> interesting interchange in the security of the Internet and > >
> opinions of discussants of the paper of ICANN's. In leastmarks for >
> >interesting reading, in my opinion > > Carlton Samuels > >
> ========================================================================>>
> &!
>
> gt; 1. Re: ] in ICANN opens to the letter [ En-Grande-Grande (Derek
> Smythe) > > > > > message: > 1 > date: Tue, The 07 Of
> April 2009 Of 20:23:13 Of +0200 > Of: Derek Smythe < > derek at aa419.org> > tema: Re: ¡[ RAA-WG ] carta abierta! > [ English! > > rande
> ] to ICANN >: they raa-wg at atlarge-lists.ican! > n.org &g > t; cubical
> centimeter: > Vittorio Bertola <vb at bertola.eu> >
> Mensaje-Identificacio'n: < > 49DB9A11.1050303 at aa419.org > >
> Contenido-Tipo: text/plain; > charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > >
> Vittorio, I differentiate and I am suitable > to understand what > is
> happening > here depends on the depth to understand > > was
> troubled, this answer is longer, than muchadvance much more of the length
> > > tact in some deeper realities known with which > often works
> > these same editings. > > Vittorio Bertola did not write: >
> scrittode Derek Smythe has: > > > hello >... >!
>
> I think that you are incurring a fundamental error > here !
> - you wi
> shfrauding under > site of the Webtomado by ICANN because > has >
> incorrect information of the WHOIS what you must wish you you are something
> that > a site of the Web frauding is closing of tomadoabajo > police
> of your country because > breaks the laws of its country > > poli!
> > backs water of what country that > > is? Where? This site of the Web
> has been > inside! > > > dicated to the authorities more of once
> > > > would be! >very, sees > relays, very in the editing if
> the ICANN personnel comenzóposiblemente the taking > > the decisions
> ignited if a site ofthe Web is "criminal" or no, as soon as a fast look in
> its Home Page closes > having > or due to the combined assumptions
> > since then > those did in the complaint, as "frunces of the personal
> site > > information on uncertain form. The legitimate businesses do
> not gatherthis > > type of information without the precautions of the
> security ". !
>
> > > if you > received an email phishing, you would make an
> assumption around > he if he > solicitd that you opened yourself in a
> session in your stranger of enuna of the certain account > > location?
> > > in one of the given examples - seguro-wayonline, is > the
> assumptions > did not require. The information is not based fast
> en"vistazos". > > > the official legal organizations publishes more
> than enough data to > to paraverificar > that this site of the Web is
> not legitimate. Such resources can be > used to > verifies that
> company is abusing the record number of another truth >. To > the
> third civil employee! > > one indicates thatthe other company of the
> site of the Web is robadoa > registry and abuses > he in its sites,
> aiming the auctions of the department of thejewelry shop > > than more
> enough > the information of the proven fraud and the fraud is available
> > in line > > > Pida a !
>
> battery or a jet of the similar financial services or still of!
> a >
> financier > regulating what would happen if he suddenly began to do >
> > depositingor similar without at least using certain security protocols
> >! > to please > partly https. > > Convengo - no, > is not
> task of ICANN's of > taking scam down site from the Web, but according to
> where > as an older person demonstrates formed > consultative ICANN
> the 3 of April of 2003 is available, to > this that corrects soon for the
> action. That responsibility > lies with > secretary. ICANN must assure
> this becomes > covered under security yes and > stability with the
> Internet, interior of alsotrusts > the Internet > > until > the
> mentioned dominions of Godaddy, the true proprietor of the address >
> >denies any knowledge of registrant. I! > > CANN also was done
> discovered > this. Other dominions by sa! > still I > existencon
> registrant to > fictitious addresses; example NATWSECMAIL.INFO. > >
> > > how you!
>
> would judge http://ubsflorida.homelandssecurities.com?> > the
> answer would be to judge it via the WHOIS and circumstances.In> this >
> the case this is the history that relaunches by n-th time; > >
> http://db.aa419.org/fakebankslist.php?psearch=BHFINDONESIA.COM >..
> >to > use the processor of Graphcard.com of the payment in the WHOIS
> tothe place to > dominion > with 007names.com, in spite of Graphcard
> that nosido value > the responsibility and > 007Names becomes that
> > discovered this one > http://forum.aa419.org/viewtopic.php?t=29427> >there am llamadopor yet personally algunosmeses Joyce telephone
> > in 007names moves haciaatrás to whom > did not pay to attention >
> my email where I explained what happened. It then asked for > he
> shipment> another email. The result is there so that everything
> considers. We have > > spoofs without the head of the battery that
> executes conel around placed > proprietor of!
>
> the address > not to validate respon! > sabilidad. Unapa! !
> > >
> ; ginación ten could probably write > "summary"in this - but I will save
> to > he;) > > was troubled process by the examples, but the bottom
> is that > > the judgments is not made slightly. There are many tests
> that > must to a dominion > fallen before > in fact can fraudulent
> be declared > many dominions are > watched per months before revealing
> his > true nature. In order to understand > the situation extremely
> makes the situation > worthy of confidence > > Deseo to give >
> kdbuk.com pleasant that was formore cautious that nine > the months. If
> > outside a better man would have been rich. Without always > showing
> > contents of the Web, could say to him which were. I observe > the
> references > NATWSECMAIL.INFO for the email. It is a small world, but
> once > > again except a summary tohim of ten paginations:) > >
> nevertheless, > the bottom is these details of the WHOIS of the use of
> falsi! > fica!
>
> cióndel of > the dominions, or > the mechanisms of aisl! > amiento >
> of the abuse the last example has taste of >. This is covered inside!
> > > > > RAA. > > > also would be very in the editing if
> ICANN began! > to inval > dominion to idar of ofthe of the names >
> being considered that "the postal code introduced > is incorrect". >
> > according to the explained thing, the postal code is > the smallest
> part of him. > must > has been verified before November of of 2008 if
> the system worked. But > raises a red indicator - porqué was not > >
> investigated? In leastwe > nevertheless must to an answerto the victims
> passed of this scam. > > > >, I concur with the letter that the
> WDPRS is to > useless service > that appears to be revealed more like
> symbolic effort > that stops truth > I think that it must assoon as
> cáigase - if > of people to that is suspicious the site of the Web of
> esun > mak!
>
> ing fraud, must call to the police, > noncIcann. If > is!
> the nec
> essity of the international cooperation, > the cleaningof the vario must
> as soon as do > its work and obtains ordered to > cooperates the
> effectiveness of ycon quickly. If > is the countries that make > not
> cooperate, this one is more ahead definitive > materiapara > >
> national diplomacies to th! > > class of and towards outside - the
> E.E.U.U. could impose > their flavor of > the regulationof the
> intellectual characteristic to the entire world > > with trips and
> bilateral agreements, do not say to me that enough it noes > > hard to
> obtain the cooperation in cybercrime. > > the sad fact > is the
> world has not trained to enough at the clean moment > the resources to
> > clock each dominion that tries to scam > to utilizadoresdel Internet
> > the jurisdiction is also a problem. The anonymous powers etc > do
> not help. Such > the legitimate users of theInternet of theresources
> provide to > protect his > the!
>
> isolation is equal the use of the Internet of ofthe of the criminals. The
> right > now > final the in advance paid cards of debit/gift American
> is being sold inside > of Africa (in a > the country nobody wishes to
> deal with) with > address falseAmerican > and used extensivament! > to
> eponer dominions > > I am > not saying that the application of the
> law does not do the best one, of the fact > > > opposed! Dice
> seriously registr of the Info! > > > and, is making the brightness
> > when udner you would circunstanciasen spi! > you of the IC > ANA
> and the secretaries. We found > the doors that pulse with the foot >
> down in hoursof early theaverage way in the morning > around the world
> > to the victims. A small example: The Netherlands, laRumania > the
> etc, but > this one isonly the extremity of iceberg > > some
> countries tries sadly and > improves its image without the resolution
> > editings true those t!
>
> he rest of > the world affects. This one is areality we >!
> ; must v
> alidate and construct in > > nevertheless >, the rule of gold of
> the fraud of the perspective of ofa of the Internet of > the victim: >
> when the money is lost, is lost by always > > personally I >
> believes that moremoney is robbed with fraud in > Internet, of which done
> it surrounds >secretaries and ICANN. Nobody knows to the truth > the
> fragment deél and from costs > > > > ICANN, in any case, must
> take! > the care endelInternet of the fraud > and to be more >
> cooperative more - but referring these (very valid and > important) >
> complaints for the appropriate agencies of applicationof > > law
> depending on &g! > > t; the countries possibly implied. The
> information could act comocámara of compensation of > that one > could
> be very useful > > agreed. Equal for > secretaries. Something could
> finally be massive surprise of the inner forums > although > > >
> > - in "the general opinion o!
>
> f the user of the InternetofICANN": > > > "the general opinion of
> the user of the Internet of not-existing ICANN"is > - the users > do
> not know that > exists ICANN > > people who know in ICANN and try
> and use the systems. Hágale > thinks that > Brenda that indicated
> safe-wayonline.com originally willgive > ICANN > > another occasion?
> Of her perspective she lost her time > > if you > refer to the
> "active users" and the groups of the user, nevertheless, the opinion >
> > is then much different according to the piece from the world. For
> example, > > in Europe ICANN perceives generally like additional
> instrument > > the controls in the Internet,for example clear of the
> United States of > > > Internet the isolation that ISG! > > >
> uaranteed to the ciudadanoseuropeos by his > the leyesnacionales! >
> and he > isnot upset please in this - the defense is not >, correct to
> the cause that > drift of!
>
> cultural differences > > Ciao, > > nevertheless, !
> if >
> the WDPRS information were taken to seriouslyby "all the" secretaries and
> > > processed by them, much of these editings conserve serevitados.
> > > also the requests > the question; porqué if any specific
> secretary is satisfied > with the RAA > > and examines
> otrossecretarios the WHOIS of ofthe of the deceit if > no? > >
> respect > > > Derek >
> _______________________________________________> > > > > [ [
> - > - original text (inside) > >
> http://mm2.icann.org/transbot_archive/a97d392b69.html > --]] > >
> > > >> > > > [ [ - - original text (it is) >
> http://mm2.icann.org/transbot_archive/9c186bea47.html > --]] > >
> > > >_______________________________________________ > list that
> sends lacquer-discuss-lac-discuss-in >
> lac-discuss-en at atlarge-lists.icann.org > >
> http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/lac-discuss-en_atlarge-lists.icann.org>
> > > ___!
>
> ____________________________________________ > > > > > [ [ - - Original
> text (in) > http://mm2.icann.org/transbot_archive/07181690å.html<http://mm2.icann.org/transbot_archive/07181690%C3%A5.html>> --]] > > > >
>
>
>
>
> [[--Original text (es)
> http://mm2.icann.org/transbot_archive/9f236ad384.html
> --]]
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> lac-discuss-en mailing list
> lac-discuss-en at atlarge-lists.icann.org
>
> http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/lac-discuss-en_atlarge-lists.icann.org
>
>
More information about the lac-discuss-en
mailing list