[LAC-Discuss] FW: Elections Process in LACRALO

Tue Oct 7 20:54:58 EDT 2008

Español/English

Estimados Colegas:   Estoy de acuerdo con Carlton. La participación no es una cosa fácil de hacer, especialmente cuando se necesita educación, y el lenguaje es diferente. La participación en LacRALO se está construyendo ahora mismo y tambien en otras regiones (Afri, AP), porque hace dos años, directamente la partipacion no existia. La gente necesita saber para participar, y la gente está aprendiendo a participar, y  están aprendiendo las diferentes, nuevas y muy complejas cuestiones tratadas por nosotros en ALAC. Por otro lado, las realidades son diferentes en cada país y cada una de las cuestiones no son todas importantes para todas las ALS. Otro aspecto importante está relacionado con el lenguaje y esto no es un tema menor. Algunos documentos se han traducido, pero no todos. y, en algunos es necesario conocer los precedentes. Creo que la participación activa y eficaz se vera en unos pocos meses más, estamos trabajando para ello, es sólo una cuestión de tiempo. Dear colleagues: 

I agree with Carlton. The participation is a no easy thing to do, specially when you need education to it, and the languaje is different.  At this moment the participation in LACRALO is being built right now, and in other regions also (Afri, AP) , because two years ago (before RALOS), directly the partipacion wasn't exist. The people need to know to participate, and the people is learning to participate, and they are learning the differents, new and very complex issues treated by us. On the other side, are differents realities in each country and not every issue are important for every people. Another important aspect is related with languaje and this is not a minor subject. Some documents have been translated, but no everyones, and in some issue is neccesary to know the precedents. I think the active and effective participation will be in a few months more, we are working for it , it's only a matter of time.   

Carlos Dionisio Aguirreabogado - Sarmiento 71 - 4to. 18 Cordoba - Argentina -*54-351-424-2123 / 423-5423> From: carlton.samuels at uwimona.edu.jm> To: jam at jacquelinemorris.com> Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 17:02:54 -0500> CC: staff at atlarge.icann.org; lac-discuss at atlarge-lists.icann.org; alac-excom at atlarge-lists.icann.org> Subject: Re: [LAC-Discuss] Elections Process in LACRALO> > ...Not much more than some issues are more complex than others and takes a> little more investment to understand.> > Even then, SOME of us have made contributions to SOME issues on your list.> Nonetheless, while I am concerned about the low participation, I still don't> see it as an acute situation. Compare this period with the 7 years pre-RALO> when a very small group "in the know" was "it". Not a whole helluva lot of> discussion took place then; I've seen the archives! > > LACRALO is 2 years old and the teething pains are plain for all to see. > > Here's the thing, these issues require knowledge. And in order to> participate, you must be educated. How many of us, for example, ever> thought about the UN geographic region model that ICANN used to divide the> world into "interests"? And why, for most of them, would you know. I happen> to know because my family has been in diplomatic service for awhile and> these are issues discussed time and again! It is the INDIVIDUAL that must> make the commitment to acquire the knowledge so as to speak sensibly about> these matters. And that will take time. I, for one, am against the> "seeing-eye dog" model that says one person should be educated and tell> others what they should think. If one would wish to do this, might as well> revert to the pre-RALO and ALAC Generation 1 days! This said, I have seen> more effort by the At-Large staff to educate us on these matters in the last> year than ever and we are still not taking advantage of the briefings and> the various writings being promoted. > > Secondly, not every matter would have immediate interest to the membership;> English-speaking Caribbean ALS, for example, couldn't give a yawn about Fast> Track IDNs, simply because this is not a matter that will gain any traction> in our neighbourhood! So I am not dismayed that folks do not take an> interest in EVERY topic that comes up. > > Thirdly, we have a philosophical disconnect. The AT-Large way of dealing> with issues turning on agreements between parties is an exercise in pot> luck. When legally-binding agreements hurt people, however unintentional,> there are remedies in law and equity. And if the pain is great enough,> somebody will salve it by filing suit in district court. ICANN knows that> and IMHO, that is the reason why the dire At-Large advisories tend not to> get ICANN too excited; the record will show they mostly ignore them.> > Maybe the interventions on elections and travel have been more numerous than> others. But probably these are issues that the majority of members> understand intuitively. I may not like it. But at least it shows we've> started at some point.> > Carlton > > -----Original Message-----> From: Jacqueline A. Morris [mailto:jam at jacquelinemorris.com] > Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 06:01 AM> To: Carlton Samuels> Cc: 'Matías Altamira'; 'Erick Iriarte Ahon'; 'At-Large Staff';> lac-discuss at atlarge-lists.icann.org; 'ALAC-excom at atlarge-lists.icann.org'> Subject: Re: [LAC-Discuss] Elections Process in LACRALO> > It's interesting.> LACRALO hasn't had any discussion on the list about any of the issues > put to the ALAC for comments, such as> Fast Flux> RAA Amendments> Registrar transfer activities and redemption grace period> GNSO Improvements> IDN Fast track for ccTLDs> IPv6> Domain name front running> Geographic regions> DNSSEC and the DNS poisoning patch> > But we did have a lot of discussion about the travel cutbacks and the > election.> What does that say about LACRALO's interest and priorities?> > Jacqueline> Carlton Samuels wrote:> > No, I STRONGLY disagree and is unalterably opposed to re-run the> elections.> >> > The requirements for the election process were well advertised. The> > candidates fulfilled all the requirements. Two candidates were duly> > nominated. One candidate withdrew BEFORE the election. That was his> > unfettered right. Where I come from, the last man standing is elected and> > returned.> >> > Alfa Redi exercised a right under the rules to call for a division. I> > personally believe that this position is not useful, especially in a> > voluntary organization. But I will defend to the end Alfa Redi's right to> > invoke the rules and take it my DUTY to protect that right. > >> > We shall have a vote. Enough already!> >> > Version Espanol:> >> > No, estoy firmemente en desacuerdo y es inalterable frente a volver a> > ejecutar las elecciones.> >> > Los requisitos para el proceso electoral se anuncian así. Los candidatos> > cumplen todos los requisitos. Dos candidatos fueron debidamente> designados.> > Uno de los candidatos se retira antes de las elecciones. Ese era su> derecho> > irrestricto. De donde yo vengo, el último hombre de pie es elegido y> > regresó.> >> > Alfa Redi ejercido un derecho en virtud de las normas de convocatoria de> una> > división. Personalmente, creo que esta posición no es útil, especialmente> en> > una organización voluntaria. Pero voy a defender hasta el final Alfa Redi> > del derecho a invocar las normas y tener a mi deber de proteger a ese> > derecho.> >> > Tendremos una votación. Basta ya!> >> > Carlton> >> >> > -----Original Message-----> > From: Matías Altamira [mailto:matias at altamiragigena.com.ar] > > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 02:00 PM> > To: 'Erick Iriarte Ahon'; 'Carlton Samuels'; 'At-Large Staff';> > lac-discuss at atlarge-lists.icann.org> > Cc: 'ALAC-excom at atlarge-lists.icann.org'> > Subject: RE: [LAC-Discuss] Elections Process in LACRALO> >> > Entonces vamos a votar por Carlos D. Aguirre y Sergio Salinas Porto, que> > fueron los únicos candidatos que se presentaron en tiempo y forma.> >> > So we'll vote between Carlos D. Aguirre and Sergio Salinas Porto, the two> > candidates that were duly and timely proposed. > >> > Matías> >> > IIISI Rep.> >> > Matías Altamira> > Abogado> > ALTAMIRA GIGENA - Estudio Jurídico> > Bv. San Juan 101 Piso 2° Of. "A" - Córdoba - Argentina> > Tel/Fax: + 54 351 422-2057/ 428-1624> > matias at altamiragigena.com.ar> > www.altamiragigena.com.ar > >> > -----Mensaje original-----> > De: lac-discuss-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org> > [mailto:lac-discuss-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org] En nombre de Erick> > Iriarte Ahon> > Enviado el: Miércoles, 01 de Octubre de 2008 12:14 p.m.> > Para: Carlton Samuels; 'At-Large Staff';> lac-discuss at atlarge-lists.icann.org> > CC: 'ALAC-excom at atlarge-lists.icann.org'> > Asunto: Re: [LAC-Discuss] Elections Process in LACRALO> >> > My answer is yes.> >> > Erick> >> >> > At 07:47 p.m. 30/09/2008, Carlton Samuels wrote:> > > >> Dear Erick:> >>> >> The Secretariat is inclined to accept the recommendation of staff in > >> this matter. Please say unequivocally whether you are requesting a > >> vote as outlined in LACRALO Rule 18.1.> >>> >>> >>> >> Assuming you answer yes, the Secretariat request that the mechanisms > >> for an electronic vote be engaged within 48 hours of your confirmation > >> and the voting period shall be seven days duration after expiry of that > >> 48-hour setup time.> >>> >>> >>> >> Version Espanol:> >>> >> Estimado Erick:> >> La Secretaría está dispuesta a aceptar la recomendación del personal en > >> este asunto. Por favor, decir de manera inequívoca si usted está > >> solicitando una votación como se indica en el Artículo 18.1 LacRALO.> >>> >> Suponiendo que responder afirmativamente, la Secretaría solicitud de > >> que los mecanismos para una votación electrónica se dedican dentro de > >> las 48 horas de su confirmación y el período de votación será de siete > >> días de duración después de la expiración de ese 48-horas tiempo de> >> > > instalación.> > > >>> >> Kind regards,> >>> >> Carlton> >>> >>> >>> >> From: At-Large Staff [mailto:staff at atlarge.icann.org]> >> Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 01:31 AM> >> To: Carlton Samuels> >> Cc: carlos aguirre; José Ovidio Salgueiro A.; Atlarge Staff; > >> ALAC-excom at atlarge-lists.icann.org; Vanda Scartezini UOL> >> Subject: Elections Process in LACRALO> >>> >>> >>> >> Dear Carlton:> >> cc: ALAC Representatives in the LAC Region, ALAC Executive Committee> >>> >> As you are aware, the nominations process in LACRALO has resulted in a > >> single candidate who has been nominated, that being the incumbent, > >> Carlos Aguirre.> >>> >> Since one ALS has requested that a vote be held on that single > >> candidate, I began a research today to review the various instruments > >> related to LACRALO  MoU with ICANN, Rules of Procedure, and Operating > >> Principles  to determine what if any provision of these requires a > >> vote, irrespective of the number of candidatures, or, if no vote is > >> obligated, if the Rules of Procedure allowed any ALS representative to> >> > > request a vote.> > > >> There are no related provisions in the MoU or the Operating Principles.> >> However, there are with respect to the Rules of Procedure.> >>> >> Rule 18.1 allows any Member of LACRALO to invoke rules from the UNGA > >> Rules of Procedure, with a few exceptions.> >>> >> Rule 127 of the UNGA Rules provides that:> >>> >> (a) The General Assembly shall normally vote by show of hands or by > >> standing, but any representative may request a roll-call. The roll-call > >> shall be taken in the English alphabetical order of the names of the > >> members, beginning with the member whose name is drawn by lot by the:> >> President. The name of each member shall be called in any roll-call, > >> and one of its representatives shall reply “yes”, “no” or “abstention”. > >> The result of the voting shall be inserted in the record in the English > >> alphabetical order of the names of the members.> >>> >> (b) When the General Assembly votes by mechanical means, a non-recorded > >> vote shall replace a vote by show of hands or by standing and a > >> recorded vote shall replace a roll-call vote. Any representative may > >> request a recorded vote. In the case of a recorded vote, the General > >> Assembly shall, unless a representative requests otherwise, dispense > >> with the procedure of calling out the names of the members; > >> nevertheless, the result of the voting shall be inserted in the record in> >> > > the same manner as that of a roll-call vote.> > > >> Version Espanol:> >>> >> a) De ordinario, las votaciones de la Asamblea General se harán > >> levantando la mano o poniéndose de pie, pero cualquier representante > >> podrá pedir votación nominal. La votación nominal se efectuará > >> siguiendo el orden alfabético inglés de los nombres de los miembros, > >> comenzando por el miembro cuyo nombre sea sacado a suerte por el > >> Presidente. En las votaciones nominales, se anunciará el nombre de cada > >> uno de los miembros y uno de sus representantes contestará “sí”, “no” o > >> “abstención”. El resultado de la votación se consignará en el acta > >> siguiendo el orden alfabético inglés de los nombres de los miembros.> >>> >> b) Cuando la Asamblea General efectúe votaciones haciendo uso del > >> sistema mecánico, la votación no registrada sustituirá a la que se hace > >> levantando la mano o poniéndose de pie y la votación registrada > >> sustituirá a la votación nominal. Cualquier representante podrá pedir> >> > > votación registrada.> > > >> En las votaciones registradas, la Asamblea General prescindirá del > >> procedimiento de anunciar los nombres de los miembros, salvo que un > >> representante lo pida; no obstante, el resultado de la votación se > >> consignará en el acta de la misma manera que en las votaciones nominales.> >>> >> In the view of the Staff, it would be a reasonable interpretation of > >> Alfa-Redi’s email that the Member wishes to invoke this Rule. However, > >> clearly the Staff cannot oblige the LACRALO Secretariat to interpret > >> the email in this way.> >>> >> Further, since we are operating virtually, were a vote to be called, it > >> would be held as provided in Rule 20, which modified the operation of > >> Rule> >> 12.4 of the LACRALO Ordinary Rules of Procedure, and is as follows:> >>> >> 20: When a Virtual Meeting of the Assembly is held, the following Rules > >> shall replace the original:> >>> >> [...]> >>> >> 12.4 All Voting shall be conducted electronically. The Chair shall > >> declare the length of time during which votes shall be cast, and the > >> date and time of the closing of the vote. The Secretariat shall ensure > >> that the results of the vote, including the votes cast and by which > >> voter, are available to all representatives.> >>> >> Version Espanol:> >>> >> 20 Cuando se celebre una Reunión Virtual de la Asamblea, las siguientes > >> reglas sustituirán a los originales:> >>> >> [...]> >>> >> 12.4 Todas las votaciones se realizan electrónicamente. El Presidente > >> declarará el tiempo durante el cual se deberán emitir los votos, así > >> como la fecha y la hora en que finalizará la votación. El Secretario se > >> encargará de que los resultados de la votación - incluyendo los votos y > >> de quién es el voto - estén a disposición de todos los representantes.> >>> >>> >> The primacy of the LACRALO Ordinary Rules in the case of any conflict > >> with the UNGA Rules is as provided in Rule 18.4 of the LACRALO Ordinary > >> Rules, which state:> >>> >> Where the UNGA Rules of Procedure are invoked through the provisions of > >> Rule> >> 18.1 or 18.2, should a conflict arise between the rule or rules invoked > >> and these rules, these Rules shall take precedence, except where the > >> combination of these Rules and those invoked would result in an > >> impractical or unworkable process in the judgment of the Chair.> >>> >> Version Espanol:> >>> >> Si al recurrir al Reglamento de Procedimientos de la UNGA por medio de > >> la Regla 18.1 o 18.2, surgiese un conflicto entre las reglas a las que > >> se recurre y este Reglamento, este Reglamento prevalecerá, excepto > >> cuando la combinación de este Reglamento y las reglas a las que se > >> recurre den como resultado un proceso inoperante y poco práctico a juicio> >> > > del Presidente.> > > >> Taking all this into account, the Staff of ICANN recommends as follows:> >>> >> 1) That the Secretariat ask Erick if he is requesting a vote as > >> provided in UNGA Rule 127 as provided under the LACRALO Ordinary Rules > >> of Procedure in Rule 18.1 as a point of order. We further suggest that > >> the background provided in this email is given to Erick so that he can > >> evaluate whether or not the outcome provided by the invocation of these > >> Rules is what his organisation intends.> >>> >> If the answer is ‘Yes’, the we would further suggest that:> >>> >> 2) The Secretariat shall announce that an electronic vote will take > >> place as soon as it is possible for the Staff to set the vote up, > >> announce the time and date when voting shall be open, and distribute > >> the list of authorised voters at the same time in case there are any > >> amendments which members of LACRALO have forgotten to notify the > >> Secretariat of. We would suggest the voting period shall be 7 days, > >> commencing on the date and the time at which the vote is opened.> >>> >> It may be useful to note that as provided in the UNGA Rules of > >> Procedure, as well as good practice and custom, any discussion of the > >> vote or the candidates is out of order from the moment that the voting > >> begins. The only exceptions is for points of order to be raised to > >> understand the voting procedures. Voting is generally accepted as > >> beginning from the moment a vote is called, not the moment that voting > >> actually begins, and only completes at the point at which a vote has > >> closed. Further, comments about a vote after a vote is concluded are > >> generally restricted to brief comments to explain why a given member> voted> >> > > in one way or another.> > > >> Finally, Carlos, I would imagine that you (and probably others) may > >> prefer the more logical outcome of being automatically returned for a > >> second term, however, I hope that you will agree that it is better for > >> everyone to feel that the Rules of Procedure are followed completely, > >> to avoid any question as to the legitimacy of your election.> >>> >> The UNGA Rules, in English and Spanish, may be found at:> >> https://st.icann.org/alac/index.cgi?rules_of_procedure> >> The LACRALO Rules, in English and Spanish, may be found at:> >> https://st.icann.org/lacralo/index.cgi?ralo_organising_documents> >>> >> We are at the service of all of you in these regards.> >> --> >> Regards,> >>> >> Nick Ashton-Hart, Matthias Langenegger, Frederic Teboul ICANN At-Large > >> Staff> >> email: staff at atlarge.icann.org> >>> >> _______________________________________________> >> LAC-Discuss mailing list> >> LAC-Discuss at atlarge-lists.icann.org> >> http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/lac-discuss_atlarge-lis> >> ts.icann.org> >>> >> Homepage for the region: http://www.lacralo.org> >>> >> Posting guidelines to ensure machine> >> translations of emails sent to the list are more> >> accurate: > >> http://www.funredes.org/mistica/english/emec/method_emec/presentation.h> >> tml#anexo1> >> > >> >> > _______________________________________________> > LAC-Discuss mailing list> > LAC-Discuss at atlarge-lists.icann.org> >> http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/lac-discuss_atlarge-lists.ic> > ann.org> >> > Homepage for the region: http://www.lacralo.org> >> > Posting guidelines to ensure machine translations of emails sent to the> list> > are more accurate:> >> http://www.funredes.org/mistica/english/emec/method_emec/presentation.html#a> > nexo1> >> > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus> signature> > database 3485 (20081001) __________> >> > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.> >> > http://www.eset.com> >> >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________> > LAC-Discuss mailing list> > LAC-Discuss at atlarge-lists.icann.org> >> http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/lac-discuss_atlarge-lists.ic> ann.org> >> > Homepage for the region: http://www.lacralo.org> >> > Posting guidelines to ensure machine translations of emails sent to the> list are more accurate:> http://www.funredes.org/mistica/english/emec/method_emec/presentation.html#a> nexo1> > > > > > > _______________________________________________> LAC-Discuss mailing list> LAC-Discuss at atlarge-lists.icann.org> http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/lac-discuss_atlarge-lists.icann.org> > Homepage for the region: http://www.lacralo.org> > Posting guidelines to ensure machine translations of emails sent to the list are more accurate: http://www.funredes.org/mistica/english/emec/method_emec/presentation.html#anexo1

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