Thomas, my apologies again for the delay due to the mad pace of events - as a longtime participant of ICANN meetings I'm sure you know what it is like!<br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 26/03/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">
Thomas Roessler</b> <<a href="mailto:roessler@does-not-exist.org">roessler@does-not-exist.org</a>> wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Watching from the distance, I'll admit that I'm a bit confused by<br>what's going on in Lisbon.<br><br>Some questions...<br><br>- How does the timing of the signing ceremony mix with the public<br> comment opportunity that ICANN is supposed to give; see
<br> <<a href="http://alac.icann.org/framework.htm#ProposedguidelinesforaRALO">http://alac.icann.org/framework.htm#ProposedguidelinesforaRALO</a>>,<br> point 2?</blockquote><div><br>There will be a 21-day posting for this MoU. The board will ratify it at this meeting pending the completion of the 21-day comment period, and at the end of that the board will give it final approval. You will find a paragraph near the end of the MoU text which reflects this.
<br></div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">- Where are the criteria for the certification of ALSes, per<br> <<a href="http://icann.org/general/bylaws.htm#XI-2.4i">
http://icann.org/general/bylaws.htm#XI-2.4i</a>>?<br><br> "The criteria and standards for the certification of At-Large<br> Structures within each Geographic Region shall be established by<br> the Board based on recommendations from the ALAC and shall be
<br> stated in the Memorandum of Understanding between ICANN and the<br> RALO for that Geographic Region."</blockquote><div><br>These are not incorporated directly in any of the MoUs as they can be changed. The requirements are indirectly referenced by the MoUs though where an acknowledgment of the role that ICANN plays in Clause
5.7<br></div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">- What is the expectation about incorporating The Organization, what<br> is the expectation about The Organization's internal processes?
<br> What is the process for agreement on its bylaws? What say will<br> ICANN have in that?</blockquote><div><br>This is of course three questions:<br><br>1) The discussion about incorporation is to be held after the voting has been concluded in order to prevent the two issues together actually getting bogged down since they are unrelated, and both take some time - and everyone at the meetings was aware of the fact that everyone is a volunteer and we need to help ensure participation in both to the fullest extent possible.
<br><br>2) The bylaws agreed here do address these to a very considerable extent and in quite a lot of detail. You also have an additional source of procedure in the draft Rules of Procedure that have been prepared and are available on the regional Wiki which each region is free to use, amend, adopt, or ignore as it wishes. These are for the region to determine.
<br></div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> Without actually having The Organization in existence, signing the<br> MoU looks like a recipe for a considerable mess later on, and it
<br> might take degrees of freedom away that might be useful to have<br> when negotiating The Organization.</blockquote><div><br>I cannot see how that would have an effect to be honest with you. The Bylaws as agreed here are relevant to an unincorporated entity, just as they are to an entity that is incorporated. The members will live by the same set of rules irrespective of the legal status of the organisation (this is the short version of the discussion here).
<br></div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">- What is the plan to deal with newly accredited ALSes in the<br> future; I understand that the LA RALO is actually struggling with
<br> that? <<a href="https://st.icann.org/lacralo/index.cgi">https://st.icann.org/lacralo/index.cgi</a>></blockquote><div><br><br>Not really struggling. They wish to proceduralise the process of new ALSes consenting to be bound by the terms of the MoU as if they were original signers. I will be helping to supply a form of words for them to do this.
<br></div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">- Why are the individual ALSes supposed to sign the MoU, not The<br> Organization when it's constituted and ready to enter into an
<br> agreement with ICANN?<br><br> This seems inconsistent with the ICANN bylaws:</blockquote><div><br>Believe me when I tell you that the ICANN legal staff would hardly allow anything to happen which is inconsistent with the Bylaws. Secondarily, as previously stated, there is no prohibition against the assignment of the signing organisations' rights and responsibilities to the EURALO if incorporated at a later time.
<br></div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> "g. There shall be one RALO for each Geographic Region established<br> according to Section 5 of Article VI. Each RALO shall serve as the
<br> main forum and coordination point for public input to ICANN in its<br> Geographic Region and shall be a non-profit organization certified<br> by ICANN according to criteria and standards established by the<br> Board based on recommendations of the At-Large Advisory Committee.
<br> An organization shall become the recognized RALO for its<br> Geographic Region upon entering a Memorandum of Understanding with<br> ICANN addressing the respective roles and responsibilities of<br> ICANN and the RALO regarding the process for selecting ALAC
<br> members and requirements of openness, participatory opportunities,<br> transparency, accountability, and diversity in the RALO's<br> structure and procedures, as well as criteria and standards for<br> the RALO's constituent At-Large Structures."
<br><br> <<a href="http://icann.org/general/bylaws.htm#XI-2.4g">http://icann.org/general/bylaws.htm#XI-2.4g</a>><br><br> Besides the formal level, this creates a situation in which ICANN<br> can play divide and conquer on any proposed changes that might
<br> ever come up. Good for ICANN staff, bad for the RALO.</blockquote><div><br>I cannot personally see how this is true. If those who were present here felt this were the case then they would clearly not have concluded their work on this document.
<br></div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">I don't think I'll be able to make a recommendation to FITUG to sign<br>
without some very good answers to these questions.</blockquote><div><br>Hopefully these will provide it. Note that if FITUG is unable to agree to be a signing organisation, the RALO still includes all ALSes automatically; the only question is if and to what extent non-adherence will affect voting or other rights, which will be entirely a matter for the RALO to decide.
<br></div><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Cheers, and apologies that I couldn't make it to Lisbon,<br>--<br>Thomas Roessler <
<a href="mailto:roessler@does-not-exist.org">roessler@does-not-exist.org</a>><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>On 2007-03-26 14:19:54 +0100, Nick Ashton-Hart wrote:<br>> From: Nick Ashton-Hart <<a href="mailto:nick.ashton-hart@icann.org">
nick.ashton-hart@icann.org</a>><br>> To: Discussion for At-Large Europe <<a href="mailto:euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org">euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a>>,<br>> Africa Discuss <<a href="mailto:afri-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org">
afri-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a>><br>> Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2007 14:19:54 +0100<br>> Subject: [EURO-Discuss] Signing the MoUs<br>> Reply-To: <a href="mailto:nick.ashton-hart@icann.org">nick.ashton-hart@icann.org
</a>,<br>> Discussion for At-Large Europe <<a href="mailto:euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org">euro-discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a>><br>> List-Id: Discussion for At-Large Europe<br>> <euro-discuss_atlarge-
<a href="http://lists.icann.org.atlarge-lists.icann.org">lists.icann.org.atlarge-lists.icann.org</a>><br>> X-Spam-Level:<br>> X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000000, version=1.1.5<br>><br>> Dear African and European Colleagues:
<br>><br>> In order for me to prepare the signature texts for the signing ceremony on<br>> the Thursday, could those of you intending to sign send me the following<br>> information as you wish it to appear on the signature texts:
<br>><br>> Name of Organisation<br>> Name of Signer<br>> Position of Signer<br>><br>> IF YOU ARE LEAVING BEFORE THURSDAY:<br>><br>> If you are leaving before the signing ceremony and wish to sign the final
<br>> text, I will prepare a signature page early so you can sign in advance. I<br>> will then read out your name during the ceremony so that you are included<br>> even though you are not physically present :)<br>
> --<br>> Regards,<br>><br>> Nick Ashton-Hart<br>> PO Box 32160<br>> London N4 2XY<br>> United Kingdom<br>> UK Tel: +44 (20) 8800-1011<br>> USA Tel: +1 (202) 657-5460<br>> Fax: +44 (20) 7681-3135
<br>> mobile: +44 (7774) 932798<br>> Win IM: <a href="mailto:ashtonhart@hotmail.com">ashtonhart@hotmail.com</a> / AIM/iSight: <a href="mailto:nashtonhart@mac.com">nashtonhart@mac.com</a> / Skype:<br>> nashtonhart
<br>> Online Bio: <a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashtonhart">https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashtonhart</a><br><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> EURO-Discuss mailing list<br>> <a href="mailto:EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org">
EURO-Discuss@atlarge-lists.icann.org</a><br>> <a href="http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss_atlarge-lists.icann.org">http://atlarge-lists.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/euro-discuss_atlarge-lists.icann.org
</a><br><br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>-- <br>Regards,<br> <br>Nick Ashton-Hart<br>PO Box 32160<br>London N4 2XY<br>United Kingdom<br>UK Tel: +44 (20) 8800-1011<br>USA Tel: +1 (202) 657-5460<br>Fax: +44 (20) 7681-3135
<br>mobile: +44 (7774) 932798<br>Win IM: <a href="mailto:ashtonhart@hotmail.com">ashtonhart@hotmail.com</a> / AIM/iSight: <a href="mailto:nashtonhart@mac.com">nashtonhart@mac.com</a> / Skype: nashtonhart<br>Online Bio:
<a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashtonhart">https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashtonhart</a>